Someone explain this to me

[Fearandloathing]

The fact that the OP watches MSNBC already invalidates much of the opinions he constantly opines about as being based on 1/2 information and the other 1/2 being lied and gross distortions.

Well now.........

NOT Watching something makes one valid?

Sorry but your post is ridiculous as simply watching something doesn't mean you believe it; "informed" means you have knowledge that spans the issues, whereas the right only watch Faux News.

Which is defined by political scientists as naive "silo" mentality. Only ONE version can be acceptable, all others are to be jeered and hooted at without even a superficial investigation. It's easy to dismiss something if you can identify it within a narrow, 'silo' framework

The reason I distrust the entire right these days is that they spew goo, criticize, shout names at, and otherwise defame without evidence. So far NOT ONE Trumphead has supplied so much as an official sentence of the regulations covering US State security, which are massive in number and beyond the comprehension of the average man, which means Trump hasn't a ****ing clue as to what he can and can't do.

So, in conclusion then, we can dismiss your post as just more ooze comming out of Trumpville. And for a once respected conservative you should be ashamed.

 

[eohrnberger]

I love the logic: It's not about the documents, it's about what the FBI did. But what the FBI did was about the documents.

Meh. From my view it's more about the justification the FBI / DOJ for taking the unprecedented action they took.

This actual justification is going to take quite some time to come out in fact, so it's a good thing that I'm patient, and not inclined to leap to conclusions.

In the end, the FBI's / DOJ's justification for that action is going to meet the legal bar, or it won't.

Presently myself leaning to it being completely politically motivated and not legally justified, after all, it's been some 18 months since those documents made their way from DC to Florida, letters from the presidential archivists citing cooperation from Trump and staff, then why the timing which we see?

My skepticism remains intact.

 

[Nickyjo]

Which seems to be totally absent from you posts.

Oh I am a lefty, like to see myself on the side of workers, civil rights, women, the environment. But I want to be familiar with the other side's arguments, and you'd see that I often quote and try to explain the right's point of view, esp. if I see an unhinged post from a fellow traveler on the left.

 

[reflechissez]

Which seems to be totally absent from you posts.

You're one to talk.

 

[eohrnberger]

Well now.........

NOT Watching something makes one valid?

More so that MSNBC has a one sided politically biased presentation more than anything else. It is there prerogative to do so, but also the prerogative of others to observe that.

Sorry but your post is ridiculous as simply watching something doesn't mean you believe it; "informed" means you have knowledge that spans the issues, whereas the right only watch Faux News.

"the right only watch Faux News."
Is one heck of a stretch of an assertion. Can you reasonably even make that assertion with any sort of foundation in fact?

Which is defined by political scientists as naive "silo" mentality. Only ONE version can be acceptable, all others are to be jeered and hooted at without even a superficial investigation. It's easy to dismiss something if you can identify it within a narrow, 'silo' framework

I'd observe that this is a symptom, and far more applicable, to the left than anyone else, but I don't expect you to even acknowledge, much less agree with, this observation.

The reason I distrust the entire right these days is that they spew goo, criticize, shout names at, and otherwise defame without evidence.

These are the political tactics of the left far more so than of any other political leanings. Who has been screaming baseless accusation of 'Fascist!', 'Racists!', 'Deplorables!' against political opponents more than any other political group? Yes, these are the political tactics of the left far more so than of any other political leanings.

So far NOT ONE Trumphead has supplied so much as an official sentence of the regulations covering US State security, which are massive in number and beyond the comprehension of the average man, which means Trump hasn't a ****ing clue as to what he can and can't do.

I'm sensing a long term TDS affliction here. None of this is anything I was asserting or posting, yet you feel the need to vent and rant.

So, in conclusion then, we can dismiss your post as just more ooze comming out of Trumpville. And for a once respected conservative you should be ashamed.

And your finale is nothing more the typical 'Browbeat into silence (via social media and the Democrat parroting media) those who have the temerity of holing differing political opinions and positions than your own'. Oh so typical of leftist tyrants.

 

[JMB802]

Meh. From my view it's more about the justification the FBI / DOJ for taking the unprecedented action they took.

This actual justification is going to take quite some time to come out in fact, so it's a good thing that I'm patient, and not inclined to leap to conclusions.

In the end, the FBI's / DOJ's justification for that action is going to meet the legal bar, or it won't.

Presently myself leaning to it being completely politically motivated and not legally justified, after all, it's been some 18 months since those documents made their way from DC to Florida, letters from the presidential archivists citing cooperation from Trump and staff, then why the timing which we see?

My skepticism remains intact.

Presidential records are the property of the US government and should not be stored in Trump's private residence. Do you agree or disagree?

 

[Mycroft]

Maybe I can explain here. Mycroft is right, in that my post was about what I saw as hysteria by conservatives over a fairly routine, almost predictable action by the government to obtain withheld documents, of the same kind as the law suits over getting material Nixon withheld in the 1970s.

Don't worry about it. They don't care.

 

[JMB802]

Don't worry about it. They don't care.

Oh, I care.
I'm just trying to establish a baseline for interaction. If a person can't acknowledge that Trump shouldn't be in possession of presidential records then they've let everyone know that interacting with them is a complete waste of time.

 

[Port & Starboard]

Just saw a montage on liberal MSNBC of one politician and commentator after another saying that what the FBI and DOJ did was like the actions of the Gestapo, the Stasi and other agents of tyranny.

Here’s what happened. The president took stuff he apparently wasn’t supposed to. The government used legal, non-violent means to get it back. How does this simple fact turn grown ups into hysterical versions of Butterfly McQueen or Blanche DuBois imitating Chicken Little?

(FYI, I believe the above is my first triple mixed metaphor.)

A few short days ago on here, some liberals were declaring nuclear documents.

What were their sources to make such nonsensical claims again?

 

[IQ57]

Which seems to be totally absent from you posts.

You're one to talk.

They sure are, because they don’t post little snips of nothing.

Thanks for your contribution to the nothing.

 

[post]

Just saw a montage on liberal MSNBC of one politician and commentator after another saying that what the FBI and DOJ did was like the actions of the Gestapo, the Stasi and other agents of tyranny.

Here’s what happened. The president took stuff he apparently wasn’t supposed to. The government used legal, non-violent means to get it back. How does this simple fact turn grown ups into hysterical versions of Butterfly McQueen or Blanche DuBois imitating Chicken Little?

(FYI, I believe the above is my first triple mixed metaphor.)

On average, the people you're describing are poorly educated, attracted to authoritarian personalities, susceptible to being culted.

Published eleven months before the 2016 election,

The One Weird Trait That Predicts Whether You're a Trump ...​

https://www.politico.com › magazine › story › 2016/01
Jan 17, 2016 — candidate in political science at the University of Massachusetts, Amherst, where he is writing his dissertation about authoritarianism. If I ...

Trump's "M.O." dating back to 1973...

Link to archived image of this January 23, 2016 article, https://archive.ph/69aud
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/inside-the-governments-racial-bias-case-against-donald-trumps-company-and-how-he-fought-it/2016/01/23/fb90163e-bfbe-11e5-bcda-62a36b394160_story.html
"When a black woman asked to rent an apartment in a Brooklyn complex managed by Donald Trump’s real estate company, she said she was told that nothing was available. A short time later, a white woman who made the same request was invited to choose between two available apartments.

"..The Trumps retained Roy Cohn, ... Cohn portrayed the Trumps as the victims and counter-sued the government, demanding it pay them $100 million for falsely accusing them of discrimination."

Rule is Trump lawyers blow themselves up... Rudy and Sidney are suspended from practice, Roy Cohn and his law partner Tom Bolan both died disbarred and in disgrace. Everything Trump hugs turns to shit. Nothing else explains the man's ability to persuade so many to fluff him!

Heavy G.O.P. affiliation sure doesn't hurt in this textbook, destructive process, either!

Thomas A. Bolan, Understated Force in New York Law, Dies at 92 (Published 2017)

Mr. Bolan was, next to Roy M. Cohn, the quieter half of an odd couple at a potent law firm and a major player in Republican politics in New York.

www.nytimes.com

May 16 2017

-snip-

The Final Lesson Donald Trump Never Learned From Roy Cohn​

https://www.politico.com › story › 2019/09/19 › roy-co...
Sep 19, 2019 — He talked to law partner Thomas Bolan and cried. He knew what was coming. He wrote a will and tried to “finish it” but fumbled pitifully ...


16 of the 20 states with lowest levels of average adult education voted in the majority for Trump in 2020.

America’s Richest and Poorest States – Page 2 – 24/7 Wall St.​

49. West Virginia
> Median household income: $48,850
> Adults with at least a bachelor’s degree: 21.1% (the lowest)
> Poverty rate: 16.0% (6th highest)
> Median home value: $124,600 (the lowest)
> Population: 1,792,147

50. Mississippi
> income: $45,792
> Adults with at least a bachelor’s degree: 22.3% (2nd lowest)
> Poverty rate: 19.6% (the highest)
> Median home value: $128,200 (2nd lowest)
> Pop.: 2,976,149 -

48. Arkansas
> income: $48,952
> at least a bachelor’s degree: 23.3% (3rd lowest)
> Poverty : 16.2% (5th highest)
> home value: $136,200 (3rd lowest)
> Pop.: 3,017,804

47. Louisiana
> income: $51,073
> at least a bachelor’s degree: 25.0% (4th lowest)
> Poverty : 19.0% (2nd highest)
> home value: $172,100 (13th lowest)
> Pop.: 4,648,794

44. Kentucky
> income: $52,295
> at least a bachelor’s degree: 25.1% (5th lowest)
> Poverty : 16.3% (4th highest)
> home value: $151,700 (5th lowest)
> Pop.: 4,467,673

 

[eohrnberger]

A few short days ago on here, some liberals were declaring nuclear documents.

What were their sources to make such nonsensical claims again?

'50 former intel officials' again?

They do so like to inject themselves into politics.

 

[Nickyjo]

On average, the people you're describing are poorly educated, attracted to authoritarian personalities, susceptible to being culted.

Published eleven months before the 2016 election,

The One Weird Trait That Predicts Whether You're a Trump ...​

https://www.politico.com › magazine › story › 2016/01
Jan 17, 2016 — candidate in political science at the University of Massachusetts, Amherst, where he is writing his dissertation about authoritarianism. If I ...

Trump's "M.O." dating back to 1973...

Link to archived image of this January 23, 2016 article, https://archive.ph/69aud
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/inside-the-governments-racial-bias-case-against-donald-trumps-company-and-how-he-fought-it/2016/01/23/fb90163e-bfbe-11e5-bcda-62a36b394160_story.html
"When a black woman asked to rent an apartment in a Brooklyn complex managed by Donald Trump’s real estate company, she said she was told that nothing was available. A short time later, a white woman who made the same request was invited to choose between two available apartments.

"..The Trumps retained Roy Cohn, ... Cohn portrayed the Trumps as the victims and counter-sued the government, demanding it pay them $100 million for falsely accusing them of discrimination."

The Final Lesson Donald Trump Never Learned From Roy Cohn​

https://www.politico.com › story › 2019/09/19 › roy-co...
Sep 19, 2019 — He talked to law partner Thomas Bolan and cried. He knew what was coming. He wrote a will and tried to “finish it” but fumbled pitifully ...


16 of the 20 states with lowest levels of average adult education voted in the majority for Trump in 2020.

America’s Richest and Poorest States – Page 2 – 24/7 Wall St.​

49. West Virginia
> Median household income: $48,850
> Adults with at least a bachelor’s degree: 21.1% (the lowest)
> Poverty rate: 16.0% (6th highest)
> Median home value: $124,600 (the lowest)
> Population: 1,792,147

50. Mississippi
> income: $45,792
> Adults with at least a bachelor’s degree: 22.3% (2nd lowest)
> Poverty rate: 19.6% (the highest)
> Median home value: $128,200 (2nd lowest)
> Pop.: 2,976,149 -

48. Arkansas
> income: $48,952
> at least a bachelor’s degree: 23.3% (3rd lowest)
> Poverty : 16.2% (5th highest)
> home value: $136,200 (3rd lowest)
> Pop.: 3,017,804

47. Louisiana
> income: $51,073
> at least a bachelor’s degree: 25.0% (4th lowest)
> Poverty : 19.0% (2nd highest)
> home value: $172,100 (13th lowest)
> Pop.: 4,648,794

44. Kentucky
> income: $52,295
> at least a bachelor’s degree: 25.1% (5th lowest)
> Poverty : 16.3% (4th highest)
> home value: $151,700 (5th lowest)
> Pop.: 4,467,673

Interesting info. I assume that you would argue that the pols and commentators in the montage were appealing to the "poorly educated," as Trump said of those he loved. But what seemed really wierd was their over the top bringing up of the Gestapo and Stasi before the facts are all in, when this was a pretty straightforward uncomplicated series of actions by law enforcement to correct a pretty straightforward uncomplicated series of refusals by Trump to return the material sought.

BTW, I didn't know early on in Trump's rise about how Roy Cohn had represented him. It was a great "why am I not surprised?" moment. Crohn's is the story of a malevolent but sad, even tragic human being. If you want, check out the film "Citizen Cohn," with James Woods in the title role.

 

[watsup]

Again...no, it isn't.

It's about statements from people included in the montage. Read again what those statements are all about.

hint: It's not about documents. It's about actions by the DOJ/FBI.

Look, you obviously can't understand what you read. Talking to you is a waste of time.

You are dismissed.

So claiming that the FBI should be compared to the Gestapo and the Stasi is perfectly fine with you?

 

[Nickyjo]

Kind of like saying you eat food that's spoiled as well as fresh food so you aren't biased. When a 'side' offers nothing but propaganda, it's not the same as reading legitimate different viewpoints. Do you really need to read a lot of Russian government material on the war?

I just smell the spoiled food, i.e., I like to get the point of view and reasoning of the right on certain issues. I find it helps me formulate my own arguments. I have a very conservative close friend who watches FOX religiously, loved the pre-scandal Bill O'Reilly, and often sends me news and editorials from the Daily Mail. Though I believe that Hannity is and Limbaugh was intellectually dishonest, I can stand listening to other right wing talk on my car radio, if only to see what has their panties in a bunch each day, and understand what might be my friend's point of view or why he is saying certain things.

 

[Mycroft]

So claiming that the FBI should be compared to the Gestapo and the Stasi is perfectly fine with you?

What makes you think that?

 

[watsup]

What makes you think that?

Ummm—because those are included in the statements of the people cited in the OP, and you have avoided criticizing that.

 

[RaleBulgarian]

I suggest you research exactly and completely what each of those politicians and commentators actually said.

Take your own advice.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">I think every Republican believes that the FBI and other organizations have lost their mind when it comes to Trump. <a href="https://t.co/fTuWj4j7Aj">https://t.co/fTuWj4j7Aj</a></p>&mdash; Lindsey Graham (@LindseyGrahamSC) <a href="">August 10, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Mycroft]

Ummm—because those are included in the statements of the people cited in the OP, and you have avoided criticizing that.

If I've avoided criticizing, I've also avoided supporting.

The answer to your question is...no.

 

[Jacksprat]

Just saw a montage on liberal MSNBC of one politician and commentator after another saying that what the FBI and DOJ did was like the actions of the Gestapo, the Stasi and other agents of tyranny.

Here’s what happened. The president took stuff he apparently wasn’t supposed to. The government used legal, non-violent means to get it back. How does this simple fact turn grown ups into hysterical versions of Butterfly McQueen or Blanche DuBois imitating Chicken Little?

(FYI, I believe the above is my first triple mixed metaphor.)

Trump is a Big Liar. It is that simple.

 

[Fearandloathing]

I love the logic: It's not about the documents, it's about what the FBI did. But what the FBI did was about the documents.

and NONE of it is about the security of the nation, it's people or allies.

What isn't about Trump in the US?

 

[Craig234]

I have a very conservative close friend

OK, but understand the right-wing is essentially propaganda. It's like talking to lots of scammers - if they lie and say they're from Amazon and the IRS, you don't learn anything about Amazon and the IRS talking to them. That your friend is likely brainwashed. That's hard to help. When have you gotten them to agree to the right-wing being wrong on something?

 

[Nickyjo]

OK, but understand the right-wing is essentially propaganda. It's like talking to lots of scammers - if they lie and say they're from Amazon and the IRS, you don't learn anything about Amazon and the IRS talking to them. That your friend is likely brainwashed. That's hard to help. When have you gotten them to agree to the right-wing being wrong on something?

He is a businessman who made millions working his ass off. He is extraordinarily generous, treated his employees wonderfully, can talk to anyone, the definition of a nice guy. Perhaps because of his success, he has a problem grasping how others can’t make it. He is the sort of person who would approve of Trump’s economic policies, but none of his toxic rhetoric and insults.

 

[Common Sense 1]

Just saw a montage on liberal MSNBC of one politician and commentator after another saying that what the FBI and DOJ did was like the actions of the Gestapo, the Stasi and other agents of tyranny.

Here’s what happened. The president took stuff he apparently wasn’t supposed to. The government used legal, non-violent means to get it back. How does this simple fact turn grown ups into hysterical versions of Butterfly McQueen or Blanche DuBois imitating Chicken Little?

(FYI, I believe the above is my first triple mixed metaphor.)

Maybe just maybe because the FBI has lied to federal courts to spy on Trump. Remember phony Russian collusion?
Remember when a high ranking FBI agent said Trump would never be president? Remember when Comey leaked FBI documents to a friend who then leaked to the Washington post? Then that information was used to get the special prosecutor.

When has the FBI ever raided a former president's home? Hint... Never!
Why did the FBI steal Trump's passport?
Their first story was they did not take them.
Then the truth came out. They did take them and had no right to do that!

Shameful conduct by the Biden administration! This is going to come back and bite them in the ass!! This is 100% unacceptable in a civilized country.

Every single page of any document used to justify this fiasco needs to be released NOW. The DOJ will try to slow walk this while leaking to their buddies in the press.
One leak was there were nuclear documents there? Just one more big lie.
The FBI and DOJ can not be trusted when they are attacking President Trump.

 

[Deuce]

Irrelevant and unsupported question.

You have absolutely no idea what was taken from Trump...except for three passports.

Keep clinging to that hope, lol