Solar Impulse plane starts bid to cross US

[Dittohead not!]

It is a matter of battery technology. The current state of the art for storage capacity for weight is the lithium polymer. Those are the batteries that burned up in that airliner and in some of the electric cars. They will have to do much better in future to make battery powered flight commercially viable. But I do tip my hat to these pioneers. I hope they acheive their goals.

I don't see solar planes ever replacing passenger jets, but for carrying instruments aloft and staying up for long periods of time, they'd be hard to beat.

 

[Catawba]

I don't see solar planes ever replacing passenger jets, but for carrying instruments aloft and staying up for long periods of time, they'd be hard to beat.

I agree, I don't see them replacing passenger jets either (and neither did the designers), but with future advances in photovoltaics and battery technology, the potential is huge. After all, before the solar impulse, many previously thought overnight flight with a solar plane would be impossible.

 

[Dittohead not!]

I agree, I don't see them replacing passenger jets either (and neither did the designers), but with future advances in photovoltaics and battery technology, the potential is huge. After all, before the solar impulse, many previously thought overnight flight with a solar plane would be impossible.

Plus the spinoffs for anything that uses batteries has to be huge.

 

[Deuce]

I'm sure we've had the technology for years, but oil money is just too enticing for people to unveil it. We should all be driving electric cars and flying in electric planes.

Electric airplanes are nowhere near feasible for transportation purposes at this time.

Plus the spinoffs for anything that uses batteries has to be huge.

Yeah, the engineering challenges that would be overcome by a generational leap in battery technology are numerous. So many things we could do so much better, and who knows how many new applications we haven't even thought up yet.

 

[Knowledge=power]

Electric airplanes are nowhere near feasible for transportation purposes at this time.

Ya, they are.

 

[Deuce]

Ya, they are.

No, they aren't. Solar power is too diffuse and batteries lack the required energy density.

Yes, you can construct what is basically a powered glider or a low-endurance training aircraft like Cessna's electric Skyhawk, but you aren't getting a payload, speed, or endurance anywhere near gasoline or jet-a powered aircraft.

This thing goes 40 knots and carries two people. Literally outperformed by your car. Wingspan is 208 feet, about equal to a 747.

 

[Knowledge=power]

No, they aren't. Solar power is too diffuse and batteries lack the required energy density.

Yes, you can construct what is basically a powered glider or a low-endurance training aircraft like Cessna's electric Skyhawk, but you aren't getting a payload, speed, or endurance anywhere near gasoline or jet-a powered aircraft.

This thing goes 40 knots and carries two people. Literally outperformed by your car. Wingspan is 208 feet, about equal to a 747.

Do you think it's possible that the technology is available, but because of oil money, it is not being utilized? Much like the car.

 

[the_recruit]

Do you think it's possible that the technology is available, but because of oil money, it is not being utilized? Much like the car.

No. The reason the technoloy is impractical is because solar energy is too diffuse. The reason solar energy is too diffuse is because we're 90 million miles away from the sun, not because of anything the oil companies are doing.

 

[Catawba]

Italy is preparing for the maiden flight of another solar plane, the Sunseeker Duo!



"As we wish Andre and Bertrand favorable winds on their adventure, we prepare our new airplane, Sunseeker Duo for its maiden flight in Italy.

Solar Flight is preparing to test fly a new airplane in the Sunseeker family: Sunseeker Duo. The goal is to acheive maximum performance without using fossil fuels. Not only will the Duo be the fastest solar-powered airplane ever built; it will be the first solar powered airplane to offer a seat for passengers. The Duo incorporates all of the best features of the other Sunseeker aircraft and adds many refinements, not to mention significantly improved technologies. The solar cells used by the Duo are better than 50% more efficient than those used by Sunseeker II. While Sunseeker II is able to cruise in level flight on direct solar power, the Duo will have enough power to maintain a steady climb on direct solar power. The tricycle landing gear arrangement, familiar to all pilots, ensures that the Duo will operate normally at any airport in the world and folding wings give the airplane a hanger footprint no larger than a Cessna 172. The airplane can also be quickly disassembled and packed into a custom trailer.

The Sunseeker Duo realizes Solar Flight’s dream of a practical, high performance, 2-place solar powered airplane. With the US and Western Europe already well explored by Sunseekers I and II, Solar Flight is looking towards the dramatic landscapes of Eastern Europe and Western Asia for possible expeditions with the new airplane. Whether it is a day of local flying above the clouds, or a trans-continental adventure, Solar Flight is a new paradigm for aviation: adventure, freed from the constraints of fossil fuels."

Solar Flight

 

[Northern Light]

I really dislike when people **** on a cool invention. Just because it can't yet compete with jumbo jets does not mean we should cast doubt on this technology. Humans have proven time and time again that with time, creativity, and innovation, technology can be refined to impressive efficiency.

It's like saying that just because a high jumper can't jump to where YOU think the bar should be, that the high jumper is not good at what they do or deserve to be recognized.

It's only a matter of time before alternative energy sources become the norm. I hope I live to see the day that fossil fuels go the way of the dinosaur, along with their corporate lobby.

 

[the_recruit]

I really dislike when people **** on a cool invention. Just because it can't yet compete with jumbo jets does not mean we should cast doubt on this technology. Humans have proven time and time again that with time, creativity, and innovation, technology can be refined to impressive efficiency.

Oh by ****ting on an idea, you mean voicing reasonable objections. My bad.

It's like saying that just because a high jumper can't jump to where YOU think the bar should be, that the high jumper is not good at what they do or deserve to be recognized.

It's only a matter of time before alternative energy sources become the norm. I hope I live to see the day that fossil fuels go the way of the dinosaur, along with their corporate lobby.

Technologies and energy sources come with a variety of strengths and weaknesses. Blindly ignoring those and carrying on as if every idea is great is a poor way to go about it. We should be smart and focus on developing technologies that show promise of being viable.

Solar has strengths and weaknesses. One of its weaknesses is that it's diffuse. Its power density is low. That means it doesn't lend itself well to things that need to be small and yet generate lots of power relative to its size (like cars, airplanes, lawn mowers, chainsaws, etc). No amount of technology advancement is going to change that. It's a characteristic of the nature of solar energy.

Don't get me wrong. Solar is going to be a very important energy source. But its role is going to in large stationary power plants, applications that don't need to be small and can afford to take up massive real estate - not in powering aircraft.

 

[Catawba]

Oh by ****ting on an idea, you mean voicing reasonable objections. My bad.

Technologies and energy sources come with a variety of strengths and weaknesses. Blindly ignoring those and carrying on as if every idea is great is a poor way to go about it. We should be smart and focus on developing technologies that show promise of being viable.

That's what many thought of the horseless carriage, computers and manned flight......... just sayin'........

 

[the_recruit]

That's what many thought of the horseless carriage, computers and manned flight......... just sayin'........

Yes, I know how this argument works. We landed on the moon. Therefore we can do _____. :roll:

 

[CaptinSarcastic]

Italy is preparing for the maiden flight of another solar plane, the Sunseeker

"As we wish Andre and Bertrand favorable winds on their adventure, we prepare our new airplane, Sunseeker Duo for its maiden flight in Italy.

Solar Flight is preparing to test fly a new airplane in the Sunseeker family: Sunseeker Duo. The goal is to acheive maximum performance without using fossil fuels. Not only will the Duo be the fastest solar-powered airplane ever built; it will be the first solar powered airplane to offer a seat for passengers. The Duo incorporates all of the best features of the other Sunseeker aircraft and adds many refinements, not to mention significantly improved technologies. The solar cells used by the Duo are better than 50% more efficient than those used by Sunseeker II. While Sunseeker II is able to cruise in level flight on direct solar power, the Duo will have enough power to maintain a steady climb on direct solar power. The tricycle landing gear arrangement, familiar to all pilots, ensures that the Duo will operate normally at any airport in the world and folding wings give the airplane a hanger footprint no larger than a Cessna 172. The airplane can also be quickly disassembled and packed into a custom trailer.

The Sunseeker Duo realizes Solar Flight’s dream of a practical, high performance, 2-place solar powered airplane. With the US and Western Europe already well explored by Sunseekers I and II, Solar Flight is looking towards the dramatic landscapes of Eastern Europe and Western Asia for possible expeditions with the new airplane. Whether it is a day of local flying above the clouds, or a trans-continental adventure, Solar Flight is a new paradigm for aviation: adventure, freed from the constraints of fossil fuels."

Solar Flight

This is amazing.

I occasionally ponder the forecasts of flying cars from my youth and of course recognize some of the practical problems with that dream. But this technology has the potential to solve some of those impracticalities, besides cost and fuel consumption, the dangers of many small, but heavy sticks of dynamite waiting to fall out of sky was a huge problem. THere have been functional, but impractical, attempts at fossil fuel personal flight conveyances, some with intriguing safety devices like automatic parachutes, but the low weight and lack of significant combustibles could make this tech (as its developed) into a safe, cheap (relatively), and practical personal airplane.

Vertical landing is going to be a must, though.

 

[Knowledge=power]

No. The reason the technoloy is impractical is because solar energy is too diffuse. The reason solar energy is too diffuse is because we're 90 million miles away from the sun, not because of anything the oil companies are doing.

Let's step away from solar energy for a moment. If we could use electricity from another source to charge batteries that would power a plane, would be that be efficient enough?

 

[the_recruit]

Let's step away from solar energy for a moment. If we could use electricity from another source to charge batteries that would power a plane, would be that be efficient enough?

You can fly a plane using batteries charged via any source. I mean if you want to be technical, jet fuel is a battery - it's a form of stored energy (solar energy, for that matter).

But that's the difference though. There's nothing inherently difficult with powering a plane using a large battery, because you can make the power density of the battery quite high. Whereas the maximum available power density of solar radiation is quite low, and there's nothing we can do about that - it's simply a property of the sun and the earth's relationship to it. Which makes powering an aircraft solely via its own solar power supply impractical.

 

[Deuce]

Do you think it's possible that the technology is available, but because of oil money, it is not being utilized? Much like the car.

The problem is physics, not economics.

 

[Deuce]

Let's step away from solar energy for a moment. If we could use electricity from another source to charge batteries that would power a plane, would be that be efficient enough?

Yes. Electric motors are incredibly efficient when compared to combustion engines. They are also far less complicated and require less maintenance. Lots of torque for their weight too. Electric motors are really, really superior to gas motors.

Currently, this runs into the other problem though: the energy density of batteries is terrible when compared to gasoline or jet fuel. Fossil fuels are just an amazingly dense form of energy, beaten out only by nuclear power. Battery technology is improving rapidly, but for a comparison jet-a contains about 43 Mj per kg. lithium ion batteries are around .4 Mj per kg.

Uranium-235 is 83,140,000 Mj per kg. A small nuclear reactor could power a plane for years!
(Note: nuclear powered aircraft are a terrible, terrible idea)

Couple orders of magnitude to make up. Battery technology is improving rapidly, so I sure we'll get there eventually. When commercially available batteries come out that exceed the energy density of gasoline, the world is going to change very, very fast.

 

[Fisher]

I'm sure we've had the technology for years, but oil money is just too enticing for people to unveil it. We should all be driving electric cars and flying in electric planes.

In case you have not noticed from the photo--that plane has the wingspan of a jumbo jet to create enough electricity to haul a guy in a cabin not much larger than a go-kart. Weight and balance additionally are a big issue with things that can fall from the sky. Neat, but hardly practical.