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Social Security, Medicaid, and Medicare

MinRogerCooper

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I love politics, law, history, and economics so I recently looked into the US Federal Budget. In the budget is detailed, almost to the penny, how much money is gathered and from where, as well as the way said funds are spent. About 46% of the entire US Government's budget is allocated to social security, Medicaid, and medicare. I personally believe that social security should be phased out for coming generations, and I have a detailed plan by which this could be done. I also believe Medicaid and Medicare should be completely abolished and replaced with a universal healthcare system that every US citizen must have, I also have a plan for this.

However. I would rather wait to hear from others than to detail what I think is the right way to fix not only the current budget crises but the healthcare system as well.

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David_N

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I personally believe that social security should be phased out for coming generations, and I have a detailed plan by which this could be done
Why?
However. I would rather wait to hear from others than to detail what I think is the right way to fix not only the current budget crises but the healthcare system as well.
What crisis?
 

MinRogerCooper

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It should be phased out because their are people everywhere who could use the money that is being thrown into an account for them by the government. The 6.2% FICA tax on people's income is heavy and could be helpful in many households. Also, under the current system people are taxed for Social Security, and each year when taxes are filed they are taxed according to how much is in the trust fund. So people are saving money they may not have a desire to, but they are being taxed on said money that they can't even touch. Plus no matter how much you save into the system, you can't possibly get over about 3.3k per month without getting a 67% tax on everything over 3.3k. That is robbery in my opinion. Social security is also costly to operate, and said costs will only increase over the next few years. As of this year we are officially using the Social Security Trust Fund, which is money saved up through collection of social security funds, to lay people their normal benefits. Which means the system which is SUPPOSED to be self sufficient is nor working. By 2025, Congress will have no choice but to allocate emergency funds just to pay people their normal amount, or increase the tax on your saved money by 2% and raise the FICA tax.

And the Crisis is that we have debt that is unheard of. It's not a crisis in the sense that the country is falling apart at the seams, but it is a crisis in the sense that the government has incurred massive debt at a cost to the people. Because the government represents the people, which means every dollar rhey spend extra doesn't come out of their pockets, but our own and that is a crime of immeasurable proportions in my opinion. I do realize this country's economy works based on a debt system, but I don't think Hamilton or anyone foresaw a debt this large.

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Mycroft

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I love politics, law, history, and economics so I recently looked into the US Federal Budget. In the budget is detailed, almost to the penny, how much money is gathered and from where, as well as the way said funds are spent. About 46% of the entire US Government's budget is allocated to social security, Medicaid, and medicare. I personally believe that social security should be phased out for coming generations, and I have a detailed plan by which this could be done. I also believe Medicaid and Medicare should be completely abolished and replaced with a universal healthcare system that every US citizen must have, I also have a plan for this.

However. I would rather wait to hear from others than to detail what I think is the right way to fix not only the current budget crises but the healthcare system as well.

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It should be phased out because their are people everywhere who could use the money that is being thrown into an account for them by the government. The 6.2% FICA tax on people's income is heavy and could be helpful in many households. Also, under the current system people are taxed for Social Security, and each year when taxes are filed they are taxed according to how much is in the trust fund. So people are saving money they may not have a desire to, but they are being taxed on said money that they can't even touch. Plus no matter how much you save into the system, you can't possibly get over about 3.3k per month without getting a 67% tax on everything over 3.3k. That is robbery in my opinion. Social security is also costly to operate, and said costs will only increase over the next few years. As of this year we are officially using the Social Security Trust Fund, which is money saved up through collection of social security funds, to lay people their normal benefits. Which means the system which is SUPPOSED to be self sufficient is nor working. By 2025, Congress will have no choice but to allocate emergency funds just to pay people their normal amount, or increase the tax on your saved money by 2% and raise the FICA tax.

And the Crisis is that we have debt that is unheard of. It's not a crisis in the sense that the country is falling apart at the seams, but it is a crisis in the sense that the government has incurred massive debt at a cost to the people. Because the government represents the people, which means every dollar rhey spend extra doesn't come out of their pockets, but our own and that is a crime of immeasurable proportions in my opinion. I do realize this country's economy works based on a debt system, but I don't think Hamilton or anyone foresaw a debt this large.

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Can you please explain how you can resolve what I see as logical inconsistencies in your positions?

On one hand, you don't like the way the government runs SS and you would rather the government just end the whole program...that people would be better off with the money they pay into the program being left in their own pockets.

On the other hand, in the case of Medicaid and Medicare, you think those programs should be abolished and replaced with a much bigger and more costly government program.

And then...on the third hand, you complain about massive government debt...you call that a crisis.

Perhaps you could also answer these questions:

1. If SS is disbanded, do you propose anything to take its place? Or will you leave it up to people to deal with their own retirement...or not...if that's what they chose to do?

2. Would you ever consider advocating for people to deal with their own healthcare...or not...if that's what they chose to do?
 

soot

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I love politics, law, history, and economics so I recently looked into the US Federal Budget. In the budget is detailed, almost to the penny, how much money is gathered and from where, as well as the way said funds are spent. About 46% of the entire US Government's budget is allocated to social security, Medicaid, and medicare. I personally believe that social security should be phased out for coming generations, and I have a detailed plan by which this could be done. I also believe Medicaid and Medicare should be completely abolished and replaced with a universal healthcare system that every US citizen must have, I also have a plan for this.

I would love to hear how your plan takes in to account the fact that even proposing such legislation would ensure that everyone in your state, or in the nation, who is receiving SSI, Medicare, and/or Medicaid would rise up against you and ensure that you either never achieved elected officer or were thrown out of office on the next ballot.

Having a good idea isn't good enough in this country.

Do the greatest good for the greatest number isn't enough.

If you take one dime of entitlements away from voters you can be assured that you just lost their votes.
 

Gimmesometruth

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Also, under the current system people are taxed for Social Security, and each year when taxes are filed they are taxed according to how much is in the trust fund.
No, the FICA rate does not change "each year", the rate is not based on the levels in the SSTF each year. FICA rates are change by Congress....and not "each year".




Social security is also costly to operate, and said costs will only increase over the next few years.
SS administration costs are VERY low, in the order of 2%.

And the Crisis is that we have debt that is unheard of.
No it isn't, we have had bumps in the rate, increases in the age, increases in the max income level taxed throughout the history of SS.

For someone who claims to have a grand plan for the system, one wonders how that can be when the understanding of the current system is so lacking.
 

MinRogerCooper

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If SS is disbanded, which lets be honest it likely never will be, but if so I propose that people be placed in charge of their own retirement for several reasons.

The government takes money from your pay 6.2% from you and 6.2% from whomever you work for and that out together is going to make up your social security. That 6.2% they take from you could be used by citizens in their personal lives or could be invested in ways that don't have caps and payment regulations. The 6.2% invested by corporations could be taken but the tax on corporations could be raised by say 3%, which generates a good deal of revenue but the cost of social security has been lifted.
Although I would like to stress that I want to PHASE it out. Which means people who have placed money in the system would still be eligible for their benefits. So 65 year old men and women aren't list for retirement, or even 45 year olds you know.

As for Medicaid and Medicare, when you look at the entire situation we pay at least 1.45% of our income to Medicare, and their are state Medicaid taxes we pay. When Medicare and Medicaid are abolished we would be eliminating the taxes on them, which would allow a new healthcare tax of 3-4% to be introduced. This new healthcare tax in conjunction with funds being freed up by the phasing out of social security would pay for universal healthcare that wouldn't be that much more expensive than the current system(s) we have.

I do believe to be the job of citizens to pay for parts of their healthcare, but the majority is a right and can be provided by the government. And the only way to create a working system for healthcare is if it is government mandated that every citizen use it, because every citizen would be contributing to paying for it. But if a citizen so chooses, it shouldn't be illegal to seek out additional healthcare from their job, third party places, etc.

~Roger T. Cooper~
 

MinRogerCooper

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No, the FICA rate does not change "each year", the rate is not based on the levels in the SSTF each year. FICA rates are change by Congress....and not "each year".




SS administration costs are VERY low, in the order of 2%.

No it isn't, we have had bumps in the rate, increases in the age, increases in the max income level taxed throughout the history of SS.

For someone who claims to have a grand plan for the system, one wonders how that can be when the understanding of the current system is so lacking.
I have an amazing understanding of the system. And I didn't say the FICA changed. I said their is a tax on the monies already amassed in your individual trust fund.

~Roger T. Cooper~
 

MinRogerCooper

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No, the FICA rate does not change "each year", the rate is not based on the levels in the SSTF each year. FICA rates are change by Congress....and not "each year".




SS administration costs are VERY low, in the order of 2%.

No it isn't, we have had bumps in the rate, increases in the age, increases in the max income level taxed throughout the history of SS.

For someone who claims to have a grand plan for the system, one wonders how that can be when the understanding of the current system is so lacking.
And in terms of costs, I am talking about the actual costs of paying people not administrative costs and such. So that misunderstanding is my fault I apologize.

~Roger T. Cooper~
 

MinRogerCooper

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No, the FICA rate does not change "each year", the rate is not based on the levels in the SSTF each year. FICA rates are change by Congress....and not "each year".




SS administration costs are VERY low, in the order of 2%.

No it isn't, we have had bumps in the rate, increases in the age, increases in the max income level taxed throughout the history of SS.

For someone who claims to have a grand plan for the system, one wonders how that can be when the understanding of the current system is so lacking.
And lastly, their have been increasing changes that reduce the costs, but right now Social Security costs this country 938 billion dollars. It will be 1.037 trillion in 5 years. That's a reality and it's something that must be addressed by more than raising am age and a few payment caps.

~Roger T. Cooper~
 

Crovax

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It should be phased out because their are people everywhere who could use the money that is being thrown into an account for them by the government. The 6.2% FICA tax on people's income is heavy and could be helpful in many households. Also, under the current system people are taxed for Social Security, and each year when taxes are filed they are taxed according to how much is in the trust fund. So people are saving money they may not have a desire to, but they are being taxed on said money that they can't even touch. Plus no matter how much you save into the system, you can't possibly get over about 3.3k per month without getting a 67% tax on everything over 3.3k. That is robbery in my opinion. Social security is also costly to operate, and said costs will only increase over the next few years. As of this year we are officially using the Social Security Trust Fund, which is money saved up through collection of social security funds, to lay people their normal benefits. Which means the system which is SUPPOSED to be self sufficient is nor working. By 2025, Congress will have no choice but to allocate emergency funds just to pay people their normal amount, or increase the tax on your saved money by 2% and raise the FICA tax.

And the Crisis is that we have debt that is unheard of. It's not a crisis in the sense that the country is falling apart at the seams, but it is a crisis in the sense that the government has incurred massive debt at a cost to the people. Because the government represents the people, which means every dollar rhey spend extra doesn't come out of their pockets, but our own and that is a crime of immeasurable proportions in my opinion. I do realize this country's economy works based on a debt system, but I don't think Hamilton or anyone foresaw a debt this large.

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How exactly can you phase out SS? The obligations still have to be paid, not in the legal sense (Flemming v. Nestor), but from a political stand point. No one is going to voluntarily vote away their benefits and the only way to keep paying out the obligations is to keep the system going.
 

MinRogerCooper

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I would love to hear how your plan takes in to account the fact that even proposing such legislation would ensure that everyone in your state, or in the nation, who is receiving SSI, Medicare, and/or Medicaid would rise up against you and ensure that you either never achieved elected officer or were thrown out of office on the next ballot.

Having a good idea isn't good enough in this country.

Do the greatest good for the greatest number isn't enough.

If you take one dime of entitlements away from voters you can be assured that you just lost their votes.
As for not getting elected and possibly assassinated, I'm not worried about that. I have progressive ideas that will have their time on the national stage, and eventually their will be a group of people who will elect me and others like myself for the security of this country socially, economically, and politically.

~Roger T. Cooper~
 

MinRogerCooper

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How exactly can you phase out SS? The obligations still have to be paid, not in the legal sense (Flemming v. Nestor), but from a political stand point. No one is going to voluntarily vote away their benefits and the only way to keep paying out the obligations is to keep the system going.
No one is obligated to anything. That's the promise. The US government and the politicians that run it make promises that can't be kept in the long run. You are not entitled to social security from a civil sense, because as adults we should all be responsible for our own retirement. So I know people won't like their benefits being voted away but oh well, at the end of the day change has to come. People may not be ready for it now, but when I step onto the political stage they will be. I know it.

~Roger T. Cooper~
 

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No one is obligated to anything. That's the promise. The US government and the politicians that run it make promises that can't be kept in the long run. You are not entitled to social security from a civil sense, because as adults we should all be responsible for our own retirement. So I know people won't like their benefits being voted away but oh well, at the end of the day change has to come. People may not be ready for it now, but when I step onto the political stage they will be. I know it.

~Roger T. Cooper~

No you dont get it. People will not vote their benefits away and the older they get the closer to those benefits the less they are going to tolerate it. And guess what? older people vote a lot more than younger ones. I used to be of a similar mind to you 10 or so years ago but seeing a bigger and bigger number dumped into FICA each year that I could have had, Im not letting that go without a fight. Being from Texas we just dont give things up...

Come%20and%20Take%20it.jpg


You dont get it, but you will
 

cpwill

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I love politics, law, history, and economics so I recently looked into the US Federal Budget. In the budget is detailed, almost to the penny, how much money is gathered and from where, as well as the way said funds are spent. About 46% of the entire US Government's budget is allocated to social security, Medicaid, and medicare. I personally believe that social security should be phased out for coming generations, and I have a detailed plan by which this could be done. I also believe Medicaid and Medicare should be completely abolished and replaced with a universal healthcare system that every US citizen must have, I also have a plan for this.

However. I would rather wait to hear from others than to detail what I think is the right way to fix not only the current budget crises but the healthcare system as well.

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What we should replace Social Security with, and projected budgetary impact of rolling in that program.

Universal/Single-Payer HC isn't suited for our country. You can, however, make coverage universally available without depending on a third-party-payment system such as Single Payer, or our current deeply flawed structure.
 

MinRogerCooper

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No you dont get it. People will not vote their benefits away and the older they get the closer to those benefits the less they are going to tolerate it. And guess what? older people vote a lot more than younger ones. I used to be of a similar mind to you 10 or so years ago but seeing a bigger and bigger number dumped into FICA each year that I could have had, Im not letting that go without a fight. Being from Texas we just dont give things up...

Come%20and%20Take%20it.jpg


You dont get it, but you will
That's why I said phase it out so the older generation still gets their benefits. That's the point. Only people under a certain age of say 25 would ineligible to receive benefits.

~Roger T. Cooper~
 

cpwill

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No you dont get it. People will not vote their benefits away and the older they get the closer to those benefits the less they are going to tolerate it. And guess what? older people vote a lot more than younger ones. I used to be of a similar mind to you 10 or so years ago but seeing a bigger and bigger number dumped into FICA each year that I could have had, Im not letting that go without a fight. Being from Texas we just dont give things up...

Every person who retires today is currently scheduled to outlive their benefits. Seniors or those who are close to becoming seniors are effectively insisting that we all remain on the Titanic, because you're about to get First Class Seating :roll:


You're not going to get the money. All you're going to do is wreck the system and mess up your kids trying to get the money, that you won't get.
 

David_N

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I don't follow the mainstream. I follow the stream of thought that makes the most sense.

~Roger T. Cooper~

Still, I encourage you to read this short book by Mosler. Social security is in no danger. We only need to worry about real resources. We can always print more money.
 

MinRogerCooper

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Still, I encourage you to read this short book by Mosler. Social security is in no danger. We only need to worry about real resources. We can always print more money.
Printing more money is dangerous and isn't as easy as people think. Well I mean the act itself is easy but the financial and economic ramifications aren't easy to deal with. But I will look into this book.

~Roger T. Cooper~
 

Crovax

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That's why I said phase it out so the older generation still gets their benefits. That's the point. Only people under a certain age of say 25 would ineligible to receive benefits.

~Roger T. Cooper~

and how are you going to pay for 50 or so years worth of benefits?
 

MinRogerCooper

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Every person who retires today is currently scheduled to outlive their benefits. Seniors or those who are close to becoming seniors are effectively insisting that we all remain on the Titanic, because you're about to get First Class Seating :roll:


You're not going to get the money. All you're going to do is wreck the system and mess up your kids trying to get the money, that you won't get.
So are you agreeing it needs to go, but that it can't and won't because the older generation? Or what EXACTLY are you saying. I get your metaphor and everything, I'm just making sure I understand what you are saying.


~Roger T. Cooper~
 

Crovax

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Every person who retires today is currently scheduled to outlive their benefits. Seniors or those who are close to becoming seniors are effectively insisting that we all remain on the Titanic, because you're about to get First Class Seating :roll:


You're not going to get the money. All you're going to do is wreck the system and mess up your kids trying to get the money, that you won't get.

You have yet to see my deck chair rearranging skills. Small tweaks to SS will get it past my lifetime...
 

David_N

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You have yet to see my deck chair rearranging skills. Small tweaks to SS will get it past my lifetime...

SS is fine, as long as we have real resources. We need to focus on increasing productivity, getting work done with less people, building hospitals/retirement homes, etc... Money isn't an issue.
 
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