Who's "we?" You and Joaquin? Joaquin is judging all rich people and concluding that wealth is evil, that all rich people are damned.
Who makes systems and institutions? People! Thus, everything boils down to free will - unless we are forced to be part of a system/institution/ such as a socialist ideal (that takes away the individual's free will).
"We" meaning people that more or less agree with me.
1. Institutions are made up of people ... AND the laws that govern them, the foundations ... an institution is not a group of people, it's a group of people within a set of rules and norms and the such.
2. We ARE forced to be part of Capitalism since almost everything is privitized nowerdays ... Its a rediculous distinction, it's like saying "we should'nt oppose slavery if we ourselves are not forced to take part in that system.
3. Free will isn't the question here, all of us agree that free will is important ... That's simply a strawman.
Baloney! The ones who are in a rut are the ones who cannot afford the basic necessities of life - FOOD and SHELTER! That's all a human being needs!
Why do you think Jesus told us not to worry? And pointed to the birds as an example of how God will provide? Do all birds live in golden cages, with techno gadget feeders that comes with fountains?
It's all about LOVE OF MONEY! They're all the same!
What a sick twisting of scripture ... So Jesus tells us to not worry about material things but put spiritual things first ... and somehow you take that to mean that we shouldn't work for a system that takes care of "the least of these" i.e. Matthew 25:34-40?
Also in your response you totally ignored what I quoted .... in, for example, wallstreet capitalism, greed, love of money, is MANDETORY .... it's an institution of sin, read what I wrote before you respond.
It's not the institution that makes that demand. It is, straying away from God. They're lured by the treasures of this world.
So who are you judging when you say, "institution?" The building? :lol:
No, it literally is the institution, it's called maximizing profit .... It's the core of corporate Capitalism.
I'm judging the institution, i.e. the framework inwhich people are forced to work, the same thing you're judging and I would judge when talking about the USSR "system."
Why do you whine so much about their wealth? You're not simply whining.....you're smearing! You don't know what goes on in those board meetings - that there are those who try to correct the system and do the best they can for the good of the country. Why do we have whistleblowers, as an example?
You tar all people who sits in corporate boardrooms without knowing anything about them except that they're wearing suits and work in Wall Street! That's slander! Bearing false witness!
We have whistleblowers, and God bless them, what happens to them? They get fired ... blacklisted, or go to prison, what happened to the executive of a certain health insurance company when she suggested perhaps we shouldn't deny children healthcare based on phony pre-existing conditions? She was fired, why? They hurt profits .... This is SYSTEMIC sin, institutionalized.
Here's what I do know, they are obligated to MAXIMIZE profits.
BTW, under your logic it would be slander to criticize the Soviet Union system because yo udon't know what goes on in the politburo ....
It's rediculous .... But you're missing my ENTIRE point, my point is that Christians should apply the principles found in the bible to when they deal with social issues?
You are so desperate to try and get out of that you resort to this sort of nonsense argument.
Good that you mentioned his friends....Look at Job's friends! They automatically judged that he did something wrong that's why he was being punished by God! God had a few words about them in the end, too!
Ok ... I'm just quoting the scriptures here ....
And justice may not necessarily be served on earth while we still live. We may die without seeing any justice on earth.....but it will surely be served on JUDGEment Day!
That doesn't mean one shouldn't work toward justice now ...
Corrupting the Scriptures to serve one's purpose is a grievous sin. What more when it misleads others.
Which is not what I've been doing, but when you try and twist meanings of parables, or twist meanings of exortations not to worry, to pretend that things are in the scriptural text that arn't there and so on, I've posted scripture after scripture, plain and simple, not out of context, and not with any wierd exegesis ... You're the one that tries to add things to scriptures that arn't there. You're the one resisting the plain social message of the scriptures.
It's what's in your heart. If one dreams of acquiring wealth in order to fund an orphanage.....who's to judge that it's wrong? YOU?
The only thing I see from this thread is you trying your darndest to mould the Scriptures to suit your purpose. It's you who puts so much effort and energy thinking about the wealthy in WallStreet - and stewing about it! You think it's okay to judge the "institution" or the "system"....because by those names they are not people. They are. And it's you who wants wealth re-distributed so badly....that you'd go this length to sell the idea.
Who's REALLY obsessed with money?
1. I'm not judging individuals .... how many times have I said that.
2. I havn't moulded ANY scriptures, I've laid out the scriptures and let them speak for themselves.
3. I think about the wealthy in Wallstreet because its the system they benefit from and run that leaves millions upon millions in desperate poverty.
I'm not obsessed with money, I'm obsessed with following the scriptures, and following the example of Christ and the apostles.
And I suggest you start listening to the scriptures rather than trying desperately to reject it's social message due to the capitalistic culture you pay allegience to.
