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So....What Are The Solutions To School/Mass Shootings?

One of the problems we have in attempting to come up with actual solutions is frauds who have nothing but decerebrate hyperbole to add to the discussion.

:cool:

I am with the NRA on this it's time to tool up the school children, an armed school is a polite school. :lol:

 
Kudos to the OP for a well thought out solution. It is not to say there will never be another shooting, but I think your approach would severely limit them. I would think a biometric pistol safe (available from numerous suppliers for a few hundred dollars) permanently attached under the teacher's desk so as not to be an obvious distraction would be a good way to handle it. The teachers of course should be allowed to chose whether or not they want to be armed and the firearm used should be theirs to carry and practice with. They should take it home with them as well. I would not want teachers to have a pistol safe with a firearm in it if they are not practiced and comfortable with it's operation. In this instance you would not have teachers who are opposed to firearms being forced to handle them. I'm thinking perhaps a benchmark of a certain minimum percentage of staff being armed would do. Put the safes under every teacher's desk whether they are used or not so that no one besides the teachers themselves know who is armed and who is not. And of course, provide defensive pistol training for all interested at no charge to the teachers. I attend many firearm courses taught by qualified instructors, all of our instructors are volunteer. Our pistol guy is US Forestry and gets paid for some of the instruction he provides services for our group (CERN) free of charge.

Biometric safes AND biometric firearms. I like that. Double the protection.

:cool:
 
That and when someone is caught 100% guilty with no reasonable doubt it should take a day in court and then the people get another organ donor.

I wouldn't have a problem if Gabby Giffords and the other victims of Loughner were given a few hours with him and full pardons for any and every action that took place during that time
 
I wouldn't have a problem if Gabby Giffords and the other victims of Loughner were given a few hours with him and full pardons for any and every action that took place during that time

But what on earth will the libprogs say about that?

:cool:
 
So....What Are The Solutions To School/Mass Shootings?
My ideas for solving the problem:

  • Initiate a national "Broken Windows Theory" campaign; a program which worked miracles in NY.
  • Remove programs which brake up households.
  • Re-stigmatize pregnancy outside of marriage.
  • Require homes which house someone with mental health problems to temporally disarm until the person is cleared by their doctor or leaves the home.
  • Pass Federal Castle Doctrine eliminating 90% of all gun free zones, allowing anyone who can legally carry a gun a t all, to carry wherever that person has a legal right to be, such as to work, to collage, to their children's school, to a theater, or to the mall; and exempting them and the property owner from all liability if a shooting is otherwise lawful.
 
[*]Require homes which house someone with mental health problems to temporally disarm until the person is cleared by their doctor or leaves the home.

I'm at the point where I can't support even this idea. The vast majority of those with 'mental health' problems are not in any way violent, nor do they become violent.
 
The first thing you have to do in America for that to happen is to fix the education system. I attend a public school and boy is it bad. The teachers don't care about learning and the administrators have no respect for privacy . My school district spent 60 grand per school on security cameras but could only spend 12 grand on technological updates . And I supposedly live in one of the area where education is supposed to be decent. My point is... Education sucks. And it's not going to get better because some. Idiot decided he should kill kids. That's a horrible act but it won't help fix the fact that public education is horrible and as long as public education blocks out competition, private schools of decent quality will be way too expensive for most people to afford. Sorry for the cynical outlook, but that's the current state of affairs in American education .
 
The first thing you have to do in America for that to happen is to fix the education system. I attend a public school and boy is it bad. The teachers don't care about learning and the administrators have no respect for privacy . My school district spent 60 grand per school on security cameras but could only spend 12 grand on technological updates . And I supposedly live in one of the area where education is supposed to be decent. My point is... Education sucks. And it's not going to get better because some. Idiot decided he should kill kids. That's a horrible act but it won't help fix the fact that public education is horrible and as long as public education blocks out competition, private schools of decent quality will be way too expensive for most people to afford. Sorry for the cynical outlook, but that's the current state of affairs in American education .

its why my kid goes to a private school

education is expensive. the alternative far more costly
 
The first thing you have to do in America for that to happen is to fix the education system. I attend a public school and boy is it bad. The teachers don't care about learning and the administrators have no respect for privacy . My school district spent 60 grand per school on security cameras but could only spend 12 grand on technological updates . And I supposedly live in one of the area where education is supposed to be decent. My point is... Education sucks. And it's not going to get better because some. Idiot decided he should kill kids. That's a horrible act but it won't help fix the fact that public education is horrible and as long as public education blocks out competition, private schools of decent quality will be way too expensive for most people to afford. Sorry for the cynical outlook, but that's the current state of affairs in American education .

This is pretty much how everything the government does works.
 
The kid should be pulled from your class if you have that kind of attitude towards him.

:cool:

That is an observation. His family clearly went with the policy of, "If the engine is shot...why polish up the chrome."

Any business owner who deals with them knows them. The family is ignorant, inbred, and criminal. All of these don't influence my grading. I just observe. I feel bad for him. He won't amount to anything...he doesn't apply himself effort.
 
Bulletproof white boards :shock:

 
ARM THE TEACHERS. ARM THE STAFF.

"What?", you say? "Put guns in the classrooms of our schools?" "What kind of a diabolical solution is that?"

As much crap kids put teachers through if a teacher was going to snap then that teacher would have done so at the beginning of his or her career.

We all seem to agree that we don't want firearms in the hands of criminals and the mentally ill. Our school teachers and administrators are some of the most trustworthy people in America. Most will agree with that. So, who better to arm than our most trusted?

Lets look at the facts in this latest case at Sandy Hill Elementary School that we know so far.

The principal, Dawn Hochsprung, who died lunging at the gunman trying to stop him from entering the school. The school psychologist, Mary Sherlach, who died activating the intercom, giving the teachers precious warning.

They were the FIRST line of defense in protecting the students at Sandy Hook Elementary School. If that Principal had been armed, that might have been the end of the incident. She saw a man with a gun. Shooting that man would have been justified in anybody's book. If the principal is shot by the gunman, which she was, the school psychologist would have been next in line to take out the shooter, had she been armed. Shooting a man who just shot the principal would have been justified also.

Then there was Victoria Soto, the teacher who locked her kids in closets before the shooter came into her classroom. Had she been armed, that would have been the end of it. She was not armed and was helplessly killed.

An armed teacher and/or staff could and would have prevented the mass carnage of innocent children that were murdered. An armed security staff would have and could have stopped the shooter in his tracks too. But would that security guard have been at the place where the gunman entered the school? And if they were, what if the guard was the first person taken out?

That's why a long line of defense of our most precious commodity -our innocent children- should be implemented.

But how can we arm our teachers and staff and protect our children from getting ahold of these weapons? How can we safeguard against this viable solution from becoming the cause of more injury and/or death?

Teachers and other school faculty should be allowed to be armed.Statistically school shootings are extremely rare,so I do not know if you can justify spending a **** load of tax payers to fortify schools and hire enough armed security.A couple of armed guards will not really do any good if they are at the other end of campus or one of them is shot or on their day off. But the allowing teachers and other school faculty who meet certain requirements to armed is the most cost effective and more effective than having a few armed guards,especially if the kids do not know who is armed.

Before you break out a knee-jerk reaction of, "Pass out the badges and arm the Posse", here's what we can do.

Safe boxes for the firearms. A teacher/staff member walking around with a handgun strapped to their hip is not a viable option. The firearms are to be locked away in an area such that the kids can't get into them but accessible enough for a teacher/staff to get to them when an emergency arises.. They will have some sort of keyless lock, combo or something even more hi-tec that will allow teachers to get to the defensive weapons. These safes will also be alarmed so that ANY access into them will set off a school wide alarm and alert other teachers, staff and students. When the 'safe box' alarm goes off, everyone would know that a firearm has been accessed. Also, a procedure is to be set up for non-emergency access to the firearms that is coordinated with school officials and staff.

Teach the teachers and staff. Instruct them how to properly handle and store and retrieve their assigned firearms. This involves an ongoing process of training and retraining. A firearm in the hands of someone who has no knowledge of how to handle them can be a danger all to itself.

I do not like the lockbox idea. Locks can be jammed in order to prevent the teacher or other school staff from having access to that safe. Safes can be broken into thus providing a free firearm to a school shooter. I think teachers should have the firearm on them at all times and it should be concealed so that the students are unable to tell if a teacher is armed. I think there should be a standard SOP on what clothing teachers can wear in order to make it difficult for students to tell which teacher is or isn't armed. I do not want the students do not know which teacher or other school staff member has a firearm.I want the school kids have to assume that every school teacher and other school staff are all armed. This is so Johnny doesn't go Miss Jenkins is armed so I will shoot the other side of the school up or I will just shoot Miss Jenkins.

And should we teach our kids about the safe and proper handling of firearms and the dangers they can cause when used improperly? Of course we should. They should not, in any way, shape or form, have unbridled access to them. But we must teach them at least what to do when they encounter them and the dangers that can possibly happen. I learned how to shoot a firearm when I was 8 years old at a week-long Y-Camp. And taught by someone who was able to properly train children how to use a firearm. In my case, the instructor was a retired Marine drill sergeant.
I somewhat agree with that. We tell kids to not run with scissors, to not talk to strangers, say no to drugs and all sorts of other stuff.We even have sex ed classes. Since there is about 310 million firearms in this country in the hands of private citizens there is an extremely good chance that a child even in a home without firearms can encounter a firearm. So it would be a good idea to teacher then firearm safety and proper usage. Elementary kids can have coloring sheets and videos in in school on do not touch a firearm without adult supervision and to let an adult know when they see an unsecured firearm. Middle school and highschool kids can be taught with rubber ducks on how to properly handle firearms and high school kids can be taught with firearm simulators, blanks, and something similar to M.A.C.S. and high school seniors can be taught with live ammo. This could drastically reduce future accidental shootings.

Will this solution eliminate mass shootings at our schools altogether? Not hardly. But if you take the latest incident at Sandy Hook School and also the Virginia Tech. shooting, the access of defensive firearms to trained staff would have made the outcome very different than what it was. If you are looking for ways to wipe out an incident like a mass school shooting from ever happening again, you will be forever looking.


I agree.Gun free zones say "These people are disarmed feel free to shoot them up."
 
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Safe boxes for the firearms. A teacher/staff member walking around with a handgun strapped to their hip is not a viable option.
Sure it is. It works in every state it's been tried so far.

Safe boxes are a horrible and quite ignorant idea because the gun owner isn't always near the box. Your gun should be on your person.
 
A lot of people seem to have no solutions to school/mass shootings other than to grab all the firearms in America and/or throw lots of money at mental health issues mostly. The latter of the two don't even come close to saying what this money will actually do and the former is absolutely impossible to achieve. And neither of the two will completely eliminate these types of incidents from occurring.

Some also say that more security is needed at our schools. But what kind of security? We already have security guards at our schools. Mostly at our middle and high schools. And their everyday mission is usually to police the students themselves. But are they armed? Should they be armed? Would unarmed security have prevented this latest shooting?

They blame the guns. They blame the "gun nut mentality". They blame the availability of firearms. They blame the type of firearms. Blame, blame, blame.

And the solutions they offer can't or won't solve the problem. They are not viable solutions.

My solution? You want protection of your kids from a gunman invading the school and shooting your kids?

ARM THE TEACHERS. ARM THE STAFF.

"What?", you say? "Put guns in the classrooms of our schools?" "What kind of a diabolical solution is that?"

We all seem to agree that we don't want firearms in the hands of criminals and the mentally ill. Our school teachers and administrators are some of the most trustworthy people in America. Most will agree with that. So, who better to arm than our most trusted?

Lets look at the facts in this latest case at Sandy Hill Elementary School that we know so far.

The principal, Dawn Hochsprung, who died lunging at the gunman trying to stop him from entering the school. The school psychologist, Mary Sherlach, who died activating the intercom, giving the teachers precious warning.

They were the FIRST line of defense in protecting the students at Sandy Hook Elementary School. If that Principal had been armed, that might have been the end of the incident. She saw a man with a gun. Shooting that man would have been justified in anybody's book. If the principal is shot by the gunman, which she was, the school psychologist would have been next in line to take out the shooter, had she been armed. Shooting a man who just shot the principal would have been justified also.

Then there was Victoria Soto, the teacher who locked her kids in closets before the shooter came into her classroom. Had she been armed, that would have been the end of it. She was not armed and was helplessly killed.

An armed teacher and/or staff could and would have prevented the mass carnage of innocent children that were murdered. An armed security staff would have and could have stopped the shooter in his tracks too. But would that security guard have been at the place where the gunman entered the school? And if they were, what if the guard was the first person taken out?

That's why a long line of defense of our most precious commodity -our innocent children- should be implemented.

But how can we arm our teachers and staff and protect our children from getting ahold of these weapons? How can we safeguard against this viable solution from becoming the cause of more injury and/or death?

Before you break out a knee-jerk reaction of, "Pass out the badges and arm the Posse", here's what we can do.

Safe boxes for the firearms. A teacher/staff member walking around with a handgun strapped to their hip is not a viable option. The firearms are to be locked away in an area such that the kids can't get into them but accessible enough for a teacher/staff to get to them when an emergency arises.. They will have some sort of keyless lock, combo or something even more hi-tec that will allow teachers to get to the defensive weapons. These safes will also be alarmed so that ANY access into them will set off a school wide alarm and alert other teachers, staff and students. When the 'safe box' alarm goes off, everyone would know that a firearm has been accessed. Also, a procedure is to be set up for non-emergency access to the firearms that is coordinated with school officials and staff.

Teach the teachers and staff. Instruct them how to properly handle and store and retrieve their assigned firearms. This involves an ongoing process of training and retraining. A firearm in the hands of someone who has no knowledge of how to handle them can be a danger all to itself.

Staff and student involvement. Just like a fire/earthquake drill, a defense against an attack by an armed shooter out to hurt and kill should be practiced and practiced again. Students will learn that firearms are for one of their intended purposes. And that is protection. Protection of the kids and at least some sense of security a trained and knowledgeable staff member can provide them in an emergency of this type. The 'safe box' alarm drill should be taught and understood. It will also teach our kids that firearms aren't some sort of 'taboo' that should be looked upon as something that offers nothing but danger and death. Children should know and understand what firearms are for. As it is now, our schools usually treat them as something only a bad guy has and therefore shouldn't be discussed and/or allowed. The "taboo" attitude our schools usually take might give a child a perk of interest just as other taboo things give them.

And should we teach our kids about the safe and proper handling of firearms and the dangers they can cause when used improperly? Of course we should. They should not, in any way, shape or form, have unbridled access to them. But we must teach them at least what to do when they encounter them and the dangers that can possibly happen. I learned how to shoot a firearm when I was 8 years old at a week-long Y-Camp. And taught by someone who was able to properly train children how to use a firearm. In my case, the instructor was a retired Marine drill sergeant.

Will this solution eliminate mass shootings at our schools altogether? Not hardly. But if you take the latest incident at Sandy Hook School and also the Virginia Tech. shooting, the access of defensive firearms to trained staff would have made the outcome very different than what it was. If you are looking for ways to wipe out an incident like a mass school shooting from ever happening again, you will be forever looking.

:cool:

Well thought out but unfortunately not feasible. First and foremost, the solution is cost prohibitive. School systems cannot afford such an elaborate system. Teachers would require pretty extensive training and to be effective it would be need to be on-going training. There is no money for that kind of training. There is no time for that kind of training. The system will be only as good as the people implementing it. Most teachers don't want the added responsibility. Teachers are mobile. They are not going to be sitting or standing at the same desk in the same room all day. Teachers would by necessity frequently carry all over the school.

If someone is really intent on harming children, it would be much easier to assault a school bus.
 
That is an observation. His family clearly went with the policy of, "If the engine is shot...why polish up the chrome."

Any business owner who deals with them knows them. The family is ignorant, inbred, and criminal. All of these don't influence my grading. I just observe.

But I'm sure it influences your nurturing him educationally with the attitude you have. I always thought teachers were better than that. I guess I was wrong. All you're doing is kicking the can down the road.

:cool:
 
Well thought out but unfortunately not feasible. First and foremost, the solution is cost prohibitive. School systems cannot afford such an elaborate system. Teachers would require pretty extensive training and to be effective it would be need to be on-going training. There is no money for that kind of training. There is no time for that kind of training. The system will be only as good as the people implementing it. Most teachers don't want the added responsibility. Teachers are mobile. They are not going to be sitting or standing at the same desk in the same room all day. Teachers would by necessity frequently carry all over the school.

If someone is really intent on harming children, it would be much easier to assault a school bus.

If you are looking for ways to wipe out an incident like a mass school shooting from ever happening again, you will be forever looking.

:cool:
 
A lot of people seem to have no solutions to school/mass shootings other than to grab all the firearms in America and/or throw lots of money at mental health issues mostly. The latter of the two don't even come close to saying what this money will actually do and the former is absolutely impossible to achieve. And neither of the two will completely eliminate these types of incidents from occurring.

Some also say that more security is needed at our schools. But what kind of security? We already have security guards at our schools. Mostly at our middle and high schools. And their everyday mission is usually to police the students themselves. But are they armed? Should they be armed? Would unarmed security have prevented this latest shooting?

They blame the guns. They blame the "gun nut mentality". They blame the availability of firearms. They blame the type of firearms. Blame, blame, blame.

And the solutions they offer can't or won't solve the problem. They are not viable solutions.

My solution? You want protection of your kids from a gunman invading the school and shooting your kids?

ARM THE TEACHERS. ARM THE STAFF.

"What?", you say? "Put guns in the classrooms of our schools?" "What kind of a diabolical solution is that?"

We all seem to agree that we don't want firearms in the hands of criminals and the mentally ill. Our school teachers and administrators are some of the most trustworthy people in America. Most will agree with that. So, who better to arm than our most trusted?

Lets look at the facts in this latest case at Sandy Hill Elementary School that we know so far.

The principal, Dawn Hochsprung, who died lunging at the gunman trying to stop him from entering the school. The school psychologist, Mary Sherlach, who died activating the intercom, giving the teachers precious warning.

They were the FIRST line of defense in protecting the students at Sandy Hook Elementary School. If that Principal had been armed, that might have been the end of the incident. She saw a man with a gun. Shooting that man would have been justified in anybody's book. If the principal is shot by the gunman, which she was, the school psychologist would have been next in line to take out the shooter, had she been armed. Shooting a man who just shot the principal would have been justified also.

Then there was Victoria Soto, the teacher who locked her kids in closets before the shooter came into her classroom. Had she been armed, that would have been the end of it. She was not armed and was helplessly killed.

An armed teacher and/or staff could and would have prevented the mass carnage of innocent children that were murdered. An armed security staff would have and could have stopped the shooter in his tracks too. But would that security guard have been at the place where the gunman entered the school? And if they were, what if the guard was the first person taken out?

That's why a long line of defense of our most precious commodity -our innocent children- should be implemented.

But how can we arm our teachers and staff and protect our children from getting ahold of these weapons? How can we safeguard against this viable solution from becoming the cause of more injury and/or death?

Before you break out a knee-jerk reaction of, "Pass out the badges and arm the Posse", here's what we can do.

Safe boxes for the firearms. A teacher/staff member walking around with a handgun strapped to their hip is not a viable option. The firearms are to be locked away in an area such that the kids can't get into them but accessible enough for a teacher/staff to get to them when an emergency arises.. They will have some sort of keyless lock, combo or something even more hi-tec that will allow teachers to get to the defensive weapons. These safes will also be alarmed so that ANY access into them will set off a school wide alarm and alert other teachers, staff and students. When the 'safe box' alarm goes off, everyone would know that a firearm has been accessed. Also, a procedure is to be set up for non-emergency access to the firearms that is coordinated with school officials and staff.

Teach the teachers and staff. Instruct them how to properly handle and store and retrieve their assigned firearms. This involves an ongoing process of training and retraining. A firearm in the hands of someone who has no knowledge of how to handle them can be a danger all to itself.

Staff and student involvement. Just like a fire/earthquake drill, a defense against an attack by an armed shooter out to hurt and kill should be practiced and practiced again. Students will learn that firearms are for one of their intended purposes. And that is protection. Protection of the kids and at least some sense of security a trained and knowledgeable staff member can provide them in an emergency of this type. The 'safe box' alarm drill should be taught and understood. It will also teach our kids that firearms aren't some sort of 'taboo' that should be looked upon as something that offers nothing but danger and death. Children should know and understand what firearms are for. As it is now, our schools usually treat them as something only a bad guy has and therefore shouldn't be discussed and/or allowed. The "taboo" attitude our schools usually take might give a child a perk of interest just as other taboo things give them.

And should we teach our kids about the safe and proper handling of firearms and the dangers they can cause when used improperly? Of course we should. They should not, in any way, shape or form, have unbridled access to them. But we must teach them at least what to do when they encounter them and the dangers that can possibly happen. I learned how to shoot a firearm when I was 8 years old at a week-long Y-Camp. And taught by someone who was able to properly train children how to use a firearm. In my case, the instructor was a retired Marine drill sergeant.

Will this solution eliminate mass shootings at our schools altogether? Not hardly. But if you take the latest incident at Sandy Hook School and also the Virginia Tech. shooting, the access of defensive firearms to trained staff would have made the outcome very different than what it was. If you are looking for ways to wipe out an incident like a mass school shooting from ever happening again, you will be forever looking.

:cool:

Has it occurred to you that there simply might not be a solution? That **** just happens?

It's funny because if for example a disgruntled cop or army guy shot up a school nobody would say we need to get rid of the army or police. Why is that? They would say "well you know **** happens but what can we do about it? Surely we're not gonna get rid of the military or police." Well, that's the attitude we should have about guns.

**** happens. Yeah it's terrible and it sucks but there isn't really anything we can do about it without causing bigger problems.
 
A lot of people seem to have no solutions to school/mass shootings other than to grab all the firearms in America and/or throw lots of money at mental health issues mostly.

Seriously? The NRA's suggestion that we placed armed security and/or police in schools has been a topic of debate for months now.
 
Bulletproof white boards :shock:



I've seen classroom defense programs too. How and where and what to do in the class. I paid attention during a crisis management seminar when they showed it. It provided me with some interesting ideas.
 
This whole thread is a shot in the dark. The REALITY is that there is no "solution." We seem to be looking for silver bullet cures. I posted a topic like this a while back in the education forum. Nobody really seemed interested at the time. There were small innovative ideas, but that was it. Nothing concrete. Nothing that you could say "Perfect."

I did a seminar on how to improve school security. This is what we got (from a Valid security officer who has had experience in security, LE, and even helped be a mediator between LE and a Security official at a well known shooting incident).

1) Visibility. Schools shouldn't be. Visibility means windows. Windows can be seen through.
2) Strangers are bad. Know who everyone is and where they are. Schools (and malls) have been seen as poor choices of targets because someone was approached while casing the place.
3) Police should be on premises as often as possible. Patrols, wifi, or resource officers. Police should be driving or stopping by all the time.
4) Visible Security. People don't like to pick targets that they know are more resistant.

The most important parts though?

1) Know your students. Most of the time these incidents occur...someone said something and people didn't notice. Pay attention. People will let you know when something is wrong. Don't assume they are invisible. Take threats seriously. Don't dismiss them.
2) Know your staff. I had a teacher commit suicide. He went missing. Nobody reported him gone until it was too late because...well...he may have just left school.
3) Have policies for firing. If an employee is terminated have police on campus afterwards. For at least a week.
4) If it seems wrong...it probably is. Go with your gut. Who cares if you report something that isn't there? Better you did and it was nothing than you didn't and it was.

There is no quick fix. We are a disconnected society and growing farther apart. People are not as concerned with community. We are numbers now. Facebook profiles. Not people. We are growing sociopathic as a nation. It is sad. Those of us with humanity are still here, but we just cant sit idly by letting this stuff happen. There are ways to be active in helping. Part of that is looking at why people have mental health issues now? Part of that is knowing where security should be. Part of that is on us a responsible gun owners...making sure we don't sell to felons and keeping our guns secure. It isn't the fault of any one group. It isn''t any one group's responsibility. It is our ALL of ours.
 
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