'So Sorry I Voted for Trump'

[JackA]

From the New York Times (edited)

"I Voted for Trump. And I Sorely Regret It.
By JULIUS KREINAUG. 17, 2017

* * *

Mr. Trump eschewed strict ideologies and directly addressed themes that the more conventional candidates of both parties preferred to ignore. Rather than recite paeans to American enterprise, he acknowledged that our “information economy” has delivered little wage or productivity growth. He was willing to criticize the bipartisan consensus on trade and pointed out the devastating effects of deindustrialization felt in many communities. He forthrightly addressed the foreign policy failures of both parties, such as the debacles in Iraq and Libya, and rejected the utopian rhetoric of “democracy promotion.” He talked about the issue of widening income inequality — almost unheard of for a Republican candidate — and didn’t pretend that simply cutting taxes or shrinking government would solve the problem.

He criticized corporations for offshoring jobs, attacked financial-industry executives for avoiding taxes and bemoaned America’s reliance on economic bubbles over the last few decades. He blasted the Jeb Bush and Ted Cruz campaigns for insincerely mouthing focus-grouped platitudes while catering to their largest donors — and he was right. Voters loved that he was willing to buck conventional wisdom and the establishment.

He flouted GOP orthodoxy on entitlements, infrastructure spending and, at times, even health care and “culture war” issues like funding Planned Parenthood. His statements on immigration were often needlessly inflammatory, but he correctly diagnosed that our current system makes little sense for most Americans, as well as many immigrants, and seems designed to benefit the wealthy at the expense of working people."

- - - - -

This is clap trap dressed in nice words. "Mr. Trump" didn't "directly address themes" or "forthrightly address foreign policy issues" or "correctly diagnose" anything. He mouthed platitudes and sold himself as a tough guy with a flair for insulting people, and unsavvy voters bought it. Julius bought it too and now he's trying to make his lousy judgment look like a mistake any thoughtful person could have made

 

[Perotista]

From the New York Times (edited)

"I Voted for Trump. And I Sorely Regret It.
By JULIUS KREINAUG. 17, 2017

* * *

Mr. Trump eschewed strict ideologies and directly addressed themes that the more conventional candidates of both parties preferred to ignore. Rather than recite paeans to American enterprise, he acknowledged that our “information economy” has delivered little wage or productivity growth. He was willing to criticize the bipartisan consensus on trade and pointed out the devastating effects of deindustrialization felt in many communities. He forthrightly addressed the foreign policy failures of both parties, such as the debacles in Iraq and Libya, and rejected the utopian rhetoric of “democracy promotion.” He talked about the issue of widening income inequality — almost unheard of for a Republican candidate — and didn’t pretend that simply cutting taxes or shrinking government would solve the problem.

He criticized corporations for offshoring jobs, attacked financial-industry executives for avoiding taxes and bemoaned America’s reliance on economic bubbles over the last few decades. He blasted the Jeb Bush and Ted Cruz campaigns for insincerely mouthing focus-grouped platitudes while catering to their largest donors — and he was right. Voters loved that he was willing to buck conventional wisdom and the establishment.

He flouted GOP orthodoxy on entitlements, infrastructure spending and, at times, even health care and “culture war” issues like funding Planned Parenthood. His statements on immigration were often needlessly inflammatory, but he correctly diagnosed that our current system makes little sense for most Americans, as well as many immigrants, and seems designed to benefit the wealthy at the expense of working people."

- - - - -

This is clap trap dressed in nice words. "Mr. Trump" didn't "directly address themes" or "forthrightly address foreign policy issues" or "correctly diagnose" anything. He mouthed platitudes and sold himself as a tough guy with a flair for insulting people, and unsavvy voters bought it. Julius bought it too and now he's trying to make his lousy judgment look like a mistake any thoughtful person could have made

Given the two choices the major parties put forth, the only sane choice was to vote third party or not vote at all. When neither major party candidate is wanted to be the next president by 60% of Americans, something is dreadfully wrong with how our candidates are chosen, perhaps even the whole two party system. What difference did it make who won, evil A or evil B? Either way, you still had evil. Oh, for the want of a decent candidate.

 

[joG]

From the New York Times (edited)

"I Voted for Trump. And I Sorely Regret It.
By JULIUS KREINAUG. 17, 2017

* * *

Mr. Trump eschewed strict ideologies and directly addressed themes that the more conventional candidates of both parties preferred to ignore. Rather than recite paeans to American enterprise, he acknowledged that our “information economy” has delivered little wage or productivity growth. He was willing to criticize the bipartisan consensus on trade and pointed out the devastating effects of deindustrialization felt in many communities. He forthrightly addressed the foreign policy failures of both parties, such as the debacles in Iraq and Libya, and rejected the utopian rhetoric of “democracy promotion.” He talked about the issue of widening income inequality — almost unheard of for a Republican candidate — and didn’t pretend that simply cutting taxes or shrinking government would solve the problem.

He criticized corporations for offshoring jobs, attacked financial-industry executives for avoiding taxes and bemoaned America’s reliance on economic bubbles over the last few decades. He blasted the Jeb Bush and Ted Cruz campaigns for insincerely mouthing focus-grouped platitudes while catering to their largest donors — and he was right. Voters loved that he was willing to buck conventional wisdom and the establishment.

He flouted GOP orthodoxy on entitlements, infrastructure spending and, at times, even health care and “culture war” issues like funding Planned Parenthood. His statements on immigration were often needlessly inflammatory, but he correctly diagnosed that our current system makes little sense for most Americans, as well as many immigrants, and seems designed to benefit the wealthy at the expense of working people."

- - - - -

This is clap trap dressed in nice words. "Mr. Trump" didn't "directly address themes" or "forthrightly address foreign policy issues" or "correctly diagnose" anything. He mouthed platitudes and sold himself as a tough guy with a flair for insulting people, and unsavvy voters bought it. Julius bought it too and now he's trying to make his lousy judgment look like a mistake any thoughtful person could have made

Well, if that is, what you believe, you are missing something badly. Not to understand that Trump had a lot of ignored problems of our present society right in his spotlight will make it hard to form a sustainable policy mix into the future.

 

[KevinKohler]

Given the two choices the major parties put forth, the only sane choice was to vote third party or not vote at all. When neither major party candidate is wanted to be the next president by 60% of Americans, something is dreadfully wrong with how our candidates are chosen, perhaps even the whole two party system. What difference did it make who won, evil A or evil B? Either way, you still had evil. Oh, for the want of a decent candidate.

That's why I decided to go for the worst. Exacerbate the situation quickly. And look! It's worked. It's dawning on a great deal of Americans that our choices suck, and that that sucks.

So I say, keep on rolling, Trump. Keep on rolling. The worse he makes it, the faster we recognize and address the real problems.

 

[KevinKohler]

This is the United States of America, folks. Our WORST choices for public office should still consist of great people, genuinely good, hardworking, intelligent, rational people.

I, as a voter, should be able to vote for the worst candidate on the ballet, and if that person is elected, still have a great representative.

If that isn't the case, we need to be asking ourselves and everyone else why.

 

[OlNate]

Given the two choices the major parties put forth, the only sane choice was to vote third party or not vote at all. When neither major party candidate is wanted to be the next president by 60% of Americans, something is dreadfully wrong with how our candidates are chosen, perhaps even the whole two party system. What difference did it make who won, evil A or evil B? Either way, you still had evil. Oh, for the want of a decent candidate.

But in hindsight...do you really think HRC would have done a worse job? To err is human, to forgive, divine, so I don't buy into the whole "All Trump supporters are monsters" thing...but at this point, given how things have gone, do you still think evil A = evil B?

(Please don't read too much confrontation into this, just asking - I know that it's impossible to say for sure, since we only have the real results from one of them, but I just can't imagine that it could get much worse...)

 

[Crosscheck]

Given the two choices the major parties put forth, the only sane choice was to vote third party or not vote at all. When neither major party candidate is wanted to be the next president by 60% of Americans, something is dreadfully wrong with how our candidates are chosen, perhaps even the whole two party system. What difference did it make who won, evil A or evil B? Either way, you still had evil. Oh, for the want of a decent candidate.

I voted the third party casting my vote for Gary Johnson. But late in the campaign Johnson began to appear a little nutty and ill prepared. Since the election it is as if Johnson vanished from the planet earth.

I think we were screwed no matter which way we turned. No matter which one of these three cans of nuts were picked there would always be a small group with blinders on supporting them no matter how insane.

Don't think 2020 is going to be any better.

 

[jimbo]

But in hindsight...do you really think HRC would have done a worse job? To err is human, to forgive, divine, so I don't buy into the whole "All Trump supporters are monsters" thing...but at this point, given how things have gone, do you still think evil A = evil B?

(Please don't read too much confrontation into this, just asking - I know that it's impossible to say for sure, since we only have the real results from one of them, but I just can't imagine that it could get much worse...)

In hindsight or foresight, more of the same was the worst possible choice, except for Hillary who would us way farther down the more and more of the same.

Given the same choices, I would have voted exactly the way I did. Trump for President and throw the rest of the bums out in Congress.

I'll do it again on '18 and '20.

 

[KevinKohler]

But in hindsight...do you really think HRC would have done a worse job? To err is human, to forgive, divine, so I don't buy into the whole "All Trump supporters are monsters" thing...but at this point, given how things have gone, do you still think evil A = evil B?

(Please don't read too much confrontation into this, just asking - I know that it's impossible to say for sure, since we only have the real results from one of them, but I just can't imagine that it could get much worse...)

Yes, I absolutely do.

Hillary was worse, not short term, like Trump, but long term. Trump is the teenage driver who drives your old 250k mile car hard as all get out, and up and breaks it, forcing you to take measures to fix things properly, or replace them. Hillary is the one who will not do this, who will sorta keep things going just as they are, for just a bit longer, just a bit longer.

We need course correction, and while neither of them are that, at least Trump is a wake up call to that need, while Hillary is not.

 

[katzgar]

Yes, I absolutely do.

Hillary was worse, not short term, like Trump, but long term. Trump is the teenage driver who drives your old 250k mile car hard as all get out, and up and breaks it, forcing you to take measures to fix things properly, or replace them. Hillary is the one who will not do this, who will sorta keep things going just as they are, for just a bit longer, just a bit longer.

We need course correction, and while neither of them are that, at least Trump is a wake up call to that need, while Hillary is not.

I know it's embarrassing to have voted for Trump isn't it

 

[katzgar]

In hindsight or foresight, more of the same was the worst possible choice, except for Hillary who would us way farther down the more and more of the same.

Given the same choices, I would have voted exactly the way I did. Trump for President and throw the rest of the bums out in Congress.

I'll do it again on '18 and '20.

Embarrassing post

 

[KevinKohler]

I voted the third party casting my vote for Gary Johnson. But late in the campaign Johnson began to appear a little nutty and ill prepared. Since the election it is as if Johnson vanished from the planet earth.

I think we were screwed no matter which way we turned. No matter which one of these three cans of nuts were picked there would always be a small group with blinders on supporting them no matter how insane.

Don't think 2020 is going to be any better.

Depends on how bad things get under Trump.


I hold out hope that he'll make it bad enough that real change could happen. Change is hard, and it often hurts, so the thing you're changing from has to be pretty bad before ushering the will to propagate true change can begin.

 

[KevinKohler]

In hindsight or foresight, more of the same was the worst possible choice, except for Hillary who would us way farther down the more and more of the same.

Given the same choices, I would have voted exactly the way I did. Trump for President and throw the rest of the bums out in Congress.

I'll do it again on '18 and '20.

For some reason I can't like this post.

 

[MrPeanut]

From the New York Times (edited)

"I Voted for Trump. And I Sorely Regret It.
By JULIUS KREINAUG. 17, 2017

* * *

Mr. Trump eschewed strict ideologies and directly addressed themes that the more conventional candidates of both parties preferred to ignore. Rather than recite paeans to American enterprise, he acknowledged that our “information economy” has delivered little wage or productivity growth. He was willing to criticize the bipartisan consensus on trade and pointed out the devastating effects of deindustrialization felt in many communities. He forthrightly addressed the foreign policy failures of both parties, such as the debacles in Iraq and Libya, and rejected the utopian rhetoric of “democracy promotion.” He talked about the issue of widening income inequality — almost unheard of for a Republican candidate — and didn’t pretend that simply cutting taxes or shrinking government would solve the problem.

He criticized corporations for offshoring jobs, attacked financial-industry executives for avoiding taxes and bemoaned America’s reliance on economic bubbles over the last few decades. He blasted the Jeb Bush and Ted Cruz campaigns for insincerely mouthing focus-grouped platitudes while catering to their largest donors — and he was right. Voters loved that he was willing to buck conventional wisdom and the establishment.

He flouted GOP orthodoxy on entitlements, infrastructure spending and, at times, even health care and “culture war” issues like funding Planned Parenthood. His statements on immigration were often needlessly inflammatory, but he correctly diagnosed that our current system makes little sense for most Americans, as well as many immigrants, and seems designed to benefit the wealthy at the expense of working people."

- - - - -

This is clap trap dressed in nice words. "Mr. Trump" didn't "directly address themes" or "forthrightly address foreign policy issues" or "correctly diagnose" anything. He mouthed platitudes and sold himself as a tough guy with a flair for insulting people, and unsavvy voters bought it. Julius bought it too and now he's trying to make his lousy judgment look like a mistake any thoughtful person could have made

The bigger problem for me wasn't the shallowness of his diagnosis of the problems we face, but the fact that he was obviously not capable of pushing most of the ideas he presented in the first place. A quick look at Trump's history would tell you he didn't really believe what he was selling. I think too many people liked what he said, and fooled themselves into thinking that the Apprentice was more than just a reality TV show.

 

[KevinKohler]

I know it's embarrassing to have voted for Trump isn't it

I would do it again.

 

[Perotista]

That's why I decided to go for the worst. Exacerbate the situation quickly. And look! It's worked. It's dawning on a great deal of Americans that our choices suck, and that that sucks.

So I say, keep on rolling, Trump. Keep on rolling. The worse he makes it, the faster we recognize and address the real problems.

I'm with you. I understand you thinking. The problem is the choices last November were only palatable to approximately 35-40% of all Americans. This is why I call last years election the anti election. More votes were cast against a candidate than for one. Trump won, but if the exit polls are to be believed, half of all his votes, 23% out of 46% were anti-Clinton votes. Not necessarily for Trump, but for sure, against Clinton 100%.

 

[katzgar]

I would do it again.

That of course doesn't surprise me in the least

 

[holbritter]

From the New York Times (edited)

"I Voted for Trump. And I Sorely Regret It.
By JULIUS KREINAUG. 17, 2017

* * *

Mr. Trump eschewed strict ideologies and directly addressed themes that the more conventional candidates of both parties preferred to ignore. Rather than recite paeans to American enterprise, he acknowledged that our “information economy” has delivered little wage or productivity growth. He was willing to criticize the bipartisan consensus on trade and pointed out the devastating effects of deindustrialization felt in many communities. He forthrightly addressed the foreign policy failures of both parties, such as the debacles in Iraq and Libya, and rejected the utopian rhetoric of “democracy promotion.” He talked about the issue of widening income inequality — almost unheard of for a Republican candidate — and didn’t pretend that simply cutting taxes or shrinking government would solve the problem.

He criticized corporations for offshoring jobs, attacked financial-industry executives for avoiding taxes and bemoaned America’s reliance on economic bubbles over the last few decades. He blasted the Jeb Bush and Ted Cruz campaigns for insincerely mouthing focus-grouped platitudes while catering to their largest donors — and he was right. Voters loved that he was willing to buck conventional wisdom and the establishment.

He flouted GOP orthodoxy on entitlements, infrastructure spending and, at times, even health care and “culture war” issues like funding Planned Parenthood. His statements on immigration were often needlessly inflammatory, but he correctly diagnosed that our current system makes little sense for most Americans, as well as many immigrants, and seems designed to benefit the wealthy at the expense of working people."

- - - - -

This is clap trap dressed in nice words. "Mr. Trump" didn't "directly address themes" or "forthrightly address foreign policy issues" or "correctly diagnose" anything. He mouthed platitudes and sold himself as a tough guy with a flair for insulting people, and unsavvy voters bought it. Julius bought it too and now he's trying to make his lousy judgment look like a mistake any thoughtful person could have made

Maybe it is. If people can't accept someone saying they made a mistake without attacking, while in the same breath criticizing their inability to admit their mistake, you get nowhere.

 

[KevinKohler]

I'm with you. I understand you thinking. The problem is the choices last November were only palatable to approximately 35-40% of all Americans. This is why I call last years election the anti election. More votes were cast against a candidate than for one. Trump won, but if the exit polls are to be believed, half of all his votes, 23% out of 46% were anti-Clinton votes. Not necessarily for Trump, but for sure, against Clinton 100%.

Which is a beautiful thing. But the big question....was the message recieved? Or is 2020 going to present us the same thing? Just how many times does the leadership of the 2 parties reckon they can screw us? Because make no mistake, people are angry, and trump ain't making them less angry. We're better than this, we deserve better, and more and more people are starting to see it. No more sleeping at the wheel.

 

[KevinKohler]

That of course doesn't surprise me in the least

Nor does your support of the status quo.


Define insanity?

 

[katzgar]

Nor does your support of the status quo.


Define insanity?

I do not support the status quo in the least. I just as soon see Trump impeached. The embarrassment is yours sir.

 

[OlNate]

In hindsight or foresight, more of the same was the worst possible choice, except for Hillary who would us way farther down the more and more of the same.

Given the same choices, I would have voted exactly the way I did. Trump for President and throw the rest of the bums out in Congress.

I'll do it again on '18 and '20.

Mmm... I'll give you '18...don't count your chickens before they hatch on '20....lol....

Yes, I absolutely do.

Hillary was worse, not short term, like Trump, but long term. Trump is the teenage driver who drives your old 250k mile car hard as all get out, and up and breaks it, forcing you to take measures to fix things properly, or replace them. Hillary is the one who will not do this, who will sorta keep things going just as they are, for just a bit longer, just a bit longer.

We need course correction, and while neither of them are that, at least Trump is a wake up call to that need, while Hillary is not.

I mean, I hear what you're saying, I know the concept of "sometimes you have to let things fail in order to fix them"...but I don't think Trump is going to do what you want him to. All that's going to happen is that all the people who thought HRC had it in the bag, and stayed home instead of voting, will be out in record numbers to vote for whatever *isn't* Trump, he will get turfed out at earliest opportunity, and people will just be so grateful to have the status quo back again that it will likely be a long time before anyone ever is interested in something radically different again. If anything, Trump is solidifying the status quo for decades to come, by making folks think that "real change" only brings division, incompetence, and embarrassment...along with a lot of poorly thought out, negative impact policy.

I'm all for driving change, and I totally understand that the status quo wasn't working in America, and that HRC would have been more of the same. But good grief, you gotta make sure your agent of change is actually going to change things for the better before you blow your shot backing the wrong guy. All Trump will do is ensure that the status quo is vindicated....which is too bad.

 

[Perotista]

But in hindsight...do you really think HRC would have done a worse job? To err is human, to forgive, divine, so I don't buy into the whole "All Trump supporters are monsters" thing...but at this point, given how things have gone, do you still think evil A = evil B?

(Please don't read too much confrontation into this, just asking - I know that it's impossible to say for sure, since we only have the real results from one of them, but I just can't imagine that it could get much worse...)

I got you. Today, even with hind sight, I still would vote third party. I voted against both Trump and Clinton and if the election were held today, I would do exactly the same. Today you have the Democrats out to destroy Trump. If Clinton won, the Republicans would be out to destroy her. Both Trump and Clinton had approximately 60% of All Americans against them. Instead of Russia or what have you today, there would be investigations in to the E-Mails, the Clinton Foundation etc. The media wouldn't be so anti-Clinton as they are anti-Trump, for sure. But the Republicans still would control congress making it even harder for Clinton to govern and heading all the congressional committees, they would open an investigation into everything Clinton. The Democrats would be united more with Clinton than the GOP with Trump, but without control of congress, I doubt that would mean much.

I think Clinton's approval ratings would be in the pits just like Trump's. Clinton would be much more tactful, perhaps that would help. Now the Hillary Clinton dislike factor was even more among independents than their dislike of Trump. 54% of all independents disliked both candidates and didn't want either one to become their next president. But independents don't decide whom the nominees are, Republicans and Democrats do that. But they do decide nationally general elections and last year went for Trump 46-42 with 12% voting third party. Me among them.

Last year on election day only 38% of all Americans saw Clinton in a positive light, 36% Trump. Those are record lows. Until last year the record for the lowest favorable rating of any presidential candidate was held by Barry Goldwater back in 1964 at 43%. The next lowest, 46% by G.H.W. Bush in 1992. No other presidential candidate since FDR had a favorable rating of lower than 50%. Both Trump and Clinton shattered that record. I think it all boiled down to Trump being the new guy, the businessman, an unknown as to how he would approach governing and politics. Clinton was well known and the voters knew exactly what she would do. The devil we didn't know won over the devil we did.

 

[KevinKohler]

I do not support the status quo in the least. I just as soon see Trump impeached. The embarrassment is yours sir.

Nah. I'm not embarrassed in the least. I'm getting exactly what I bargained for, lol. I simply had different motives than you at election time.

As for impeachment? Not yet. More damage to both parties needs to be done first.

 

[Harshaw]

This is the United States of America, folks. Our WORST choices for public office should still consist of great people, genuinely good, hardworking, intelligent, rational people.

I, as a voter, should be able to vote for the worst candidate on the ballet, and if that person is elected, still have a great representative.

If that isn't the case, we need to be asking ourselves and everyone else why.

Our choices, historically, have been good choices. It's that sides demonize the other side so badly that it leaves a lasting impression.

This last choice - yes, it was historically awful. But perhaps it gives an opportunity for a lot of people to look back beyond 2016, take stock, and think, hey, those guys were actually pretty decent, and I should climb down a few rungs in future elections. Treat the other side - and everyone - with more respect.

We get the candidates and leaders we deserve. And we deserved those candidates.