Putin just engaged in full scale invasion on Ukraine and is trying to take it over (destroy its government/military and install Russia-friendly people).So.......... Now We Have Seen The Russian Army In Action In Europe, is everyone going to drop the ridiculous notion that Putin is aiming to recreate the old USSR and retake Eastern Europe?
Putin just engaged in full scale invasion on Ukraine and is trying to take it over (destroy its government/military and install Russia-friendly people).
Are you really asking this right now?
No, because it's fairly clear now, as a result of his actions, that this is exactly what Putin's aims were.So.......... Now We Have Seen The Russian Army In Action In Europe, is everyone going to drop the ridiculous notion that Putin is aiming to recreate the old USSR and retake Eastern Europe?
No, because it's fairly clear now, as a result of his actions, that this is exactly what Putin's aims were.
The only thing we've learned is a huge mismatch between Russian bark and bite.
Hard to give up your long held belief that Putin doesn't have aspirations for Eastern Europe even though the reality of it is in tatters? I'm shocked lolHard to give up that long held belief even though the reality of it is in tatters? I'm shocked lol
He demanded their entire military lay down their arms and one of his demands is "demilitarization" which could ONLY be achieved "taking it over".There's no evidence that Putin is " trying to take it over" at all
I agree he never aimed to occupy Ukraine, but it is self evident he aimed to militarily defeat Ukraine, overthrow the government, and install a Russia aligned government. Does that not count as "taking over the country"?He gave his aims and it didn't include taking over the country
?nor does the military attack look like it's an attempt to take over the country
What I think Putin can do and what Putin wants to do are two very different discussions.What makes you people think Putins weaker army can recapture Eastern Europe when it cannot even win in Ukraine?
There's no evidence that Putin is " trying to take it over" at all
He gave his aims and it didn't include taking over the country nor does the military attack look like it's an attempt to take over the country so yeah, I am asking this now.
The US spent decades in Afghanistan and never won, same with Iraq and never won.
What makes you people think Putins weaker army can recapture Eastern Europe when it cannot even win in Ukraine?
So.......... Now We Have Seen The Russian Army In Action In Europe, is everyone going to drop the ridiculous notion that Putin is aiming to recreate the old USSR and retake Eastern Europe?
What is clear is that Putin is dumb enough to try even if he's outmatched. That alone warrants NATO expansion ASAP.So.......... Now We Have Seen The Russian Army In Action In Europe, is everyone going to drop the ridiculous notion that Putin is aiming to recreate the old USSR and retake Eastern Europe?
He demanded their entire military lay down their arms and one of his demands is "demilitarization" which could ONLY be achieved "taking it over".
I agree he never aimed to occupy Ukraine, but it is self evident he aimed to militarily defeat Ukraine, overthrow the government, and install a Russia aligned government. Does that not count as "taking over the country"?
This would hold water if...you know...they hadn't launched an attack against the entire country. Like if they had limited their operations to exclusively the Donbass. Why would they make such an aggressive early attempt to take the capital if they didn't want to force a total surrender of Ukraine's armed forces?
What I think Putin can do and what Putin wants to do are two very different discussions.
What is clear is that Putin is dumb enough to try even if he's outmatched. That alone warrants NATO expansion ASAP.
He thought he did. He just badly overestimated the Russian military and badly underestimated the Ukrainian and NATO response.That's not " clear" at all. He hasn't even put in the necessary forces to occupy Ukriane let alone eastern Europe
Their apparent lack of capability doesn't mean they didn't think they could.There's no evidence that Putin is " trying to take it over" at all
He gave his aims and it didn't include taking over the country nor does the military attack look like it's an attempt to take over the country so yeah, I am asking this now.
The US spent decades in Afghanistan and never won, same with Iraq and never won.
What makes you people think Putins weaker army can recapture Eastern Europe when it cannot even win in Ukraine?
Their apparent lack of capability doesn't mean they didn't think they could.
There was that mistakenly released pre-written article talking about how they'd managed it.Have you any evidence to indicate they ever thought they could?
There was that mistakenly released pre-written article talking about how they'd managed it.
I'd have to go back and find it but I would bet that isn't the only indication.
Edit: Found an article on it:Ukraine War: Russia state media prematurely declared victory, hailed 'new world' in now-deleted report
A post from Russian state-aligned media outlet praised Putin's role and derided the West for pushing division among the Russian people. RIA published and quickly deleted the post.www.foxnews.com
You mean apart from the 'reversing "the tragedy of 1991"' part?I am aware of that article and don't agree with the conclusion BUT that's still not evidence that Putin seeks to recreate the old USSR or thinks he can
The attempted invasion of Ukraine comes to mind.Have you any evidence to indicate they ever thought they could?
You mean apart from the 'reversing "the tragedy of 1991"' part?
And saying there will be no more Ukraine?
The attempted invasion of Ukraine comes to mind.
He said the invasion was to ensure a "denazification" and a " demilitarisation" of Ukraine. If he can destroy significant parts of the Ukrainian military that would count as a demilitarisation. I don't think you have to necesasarily take over the country to achieve that
Occupation, long term occupation, even if acheivable was not a stated goal. I don't recall him stating a wish for regime change although at first I thought it might b e an unstated goal, I now don't think it is or it would be desirable for Putin
To threaten the capital would make sense imo but I don't think there was a serious attempt to take Kiev. My guess would be that the interest in Kiev was to serve as a destraction for the attack in the east. From what I am hearing from some souces ( all to be held in the skeptical bubble seeing as we are in a war of words too) is that there is a large Ukrainian army in the east that the Russians are trying to encircle/cut off. if that were to happen and the Russians destroy it then that might be the demilitarisation he was speaking of
IMO the very idea that Putin plans to take over eastern Europe is such a fantasy as to be dismissed instantly. Even if he wanted it he is not stupid enough to think he can do it. If he is struggling against Ukraine then the chances of a march through Poland, Latvia, Hungary, Estonia and on and on is beyond belief
I am aware of that article and don't agree with the conclusion BUT that's still not evidence that Putin seeks to recreate the old USSR or thinks he can
What exactly is reasonable about drawing a red line and then invading a country that doesn't cross it?He drew a red line on Ukraine and Georgia because of the existential threat NATO military bases in those countries would pose. That's pretty reasonable imo
Why not say Poland was a red line, or Latvia, or Lithuania?
He drew a red line on Ukraine and Georgia because of the existential threat NATO military bases in those countries would pose. That's pretty reasonable imo
Why not say Poland was a red line, or Latvia, or Lithuania?
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