ProudAmerican
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ProudAmerican said:It has been stated in another forum that America has murdered more people throughout history than any other country.
I believe that is a very broad statement.
I believe circumstances have to be taken into account, and I also believe the end result must be taken into account. (ie how many people were freed or liberated as a result)
lets explore.
These are the major wars or conflicts America has participated in. anyone that wishes to add to the list, please do. I wont take the discussion any further untill we have at least agreed on the list of wars / conflicts.
WWI
WWII
Korea
Vietnam
Gulf War
Afghanistan
Iraq
This is just a list of major conflicts that first come to mind. If anyone wants to add other smaller conflicts (Somalia, Grenada, etc) please list them and I will add them.
once we have a final list, we will take the first one and discuss it in depth.
I believe the assertion that America has "murdered" more people than any other country throughout history is complete nonsense.
cherokee said:How can you possibly discover who was murdered and who was killed in combat? How can you break down a war and state this person was killed by US troops while Brits killed that one?
This is complete nonsense
Davo said:Easily....The U.S. Dropped 2 atomic bombs...killed a couple hundred thousand peoples through the first action...and then countless more through radiation. Discussion over.
cherokee said:Ok fly boy....
And what is the number of American and japs lives those two acts saved if a full scale invasion did happen?
HMM? Try close to a million!
Davo said:Easily....The U.S. dropped 2 atomic bombs...killed 200,000 people(CIVILIANS) through the first action....and then countless more through time and radiation. An unnecesarry act of war that led to Japans surrendering...Some will say "The Japanese would have never surrendered"....I concur....so we basically commited a terrorist act by attacking their civilians who had nothing to do with the war....much like...Al-Qaeda killed the people at the world trade center.
Davo said:WOOOH! So it's ok to dematerialize an entire city of civilians....if it's going to stop a war? OK.Let's stop the war in Iraq by A-Bombing it until civilians and insurgents alike are dead. We'll stop the war quick that way. I bet if the Japanese had A-bombed an american city....like say....New York...you wouldnt be saying this.
cherokee said:Ok fly boy....
And what is the number of American and japs lives those two acts saved if a full scale invasion did happen?
HMM? Try close to a million!
Easily....The U.S. dropped 2 atomic bombs...killed 200,000 people(CIVILIANS) through the first action....
How can you possibly discover who was murdered and who was killed in combat? How can you break down a war and state this person was killed by US troops while Brits killed that one?
This is complete nonsense
if you are going to count civilians killed in wars by America, then you must count the ones killed by other countries as well.
Davo said:http://www.serendipity.li/cia/death_squads.htm
Are we going to count direct/indirect support of contras? And direct and indirect support for dictators? and....direct and indirect support for slaughterings...
http://www.betterworldlinks.org/book73e.htm
"America is responsible for 250,000 deaths due to the CIA support of death squads in Brazil" without backing it up with facts.
care to comment on my WWI post?
I will take a quote from a former CIA official. sure. that works for me.Ok quick verification if say....a former high ranking official from the CIA says so...is it a fact? Ok so we'll agree on the "Genocides dont count".
When it comes to murder, everyone else in the world are the rankest amateurs compared to the communists and europeans.
In the same vein, I quote 'The Civil War, America's bloodiest conflict, cost nearly 1,100,000 casualties and claimed more than 620,000 lives. The campaigning armies left destruction in their wake, particularly in the Southern states that bore the brunt of the fighting. Best estimates place the total number of war-time clashes in excess of 10,000, many of them large scale encounters that resulted in staggering losses for both sides'mikhail said:Its all very hazy i supose it depend how you see the laws of war alot of people call the iraq war was illegal though this isnt true depending on how you interpret it.
How many native american indians where killed when people first settled surely this was largely not in an organised war however since places became lawless its not murder.
I mean good luck trying to put a number together but nearly everyone you include will be disputed.
But if soldiers found bin laden he surrended but they shot him without trial would people care would people see it as murder.
not relevant to the discussion IMO. legal or not, we are there. so I am fine with any casualties we cause there to be included in this debate. it still wont help Davos cause.Its all very hazy i supose it depend how you see the laws of war alot of people call the iraq war was illegal though this isnt true depending on how you interpret it.
no only was it not an organized war, it wasnt at the hands of America untill 1776.How many native american indians where killed when people first settled surely this was largely not in an organised war however since places became lawless its not murder.
I dont mind being disputed with facts. I enjoy learning.I mean good luck trying to put a number together but nearly everyone you include will be disputed.
ProudAmerican said:It has been stated in another forum that America has murdered more people throughout history than any other country.
I believe that is a very broad statement.
I believe circumstances have to be taken into account, and I also believe the end result must be taken into account. (ie how many people were freed or liberated as a result)
lets explore.
These are the major wars or conflicts America has participated in. anyone that wishes to add to the list, please do. I wont take the discussion any further untill we have at least agreed on the list of wars / conflicts.
WWI
WWII
Korea
Vietnam
Gulf War
Afghanistan
Iraq
This is just a list of major conflicts that first come to mind. If anyone wants to add other smaller conflicts (Somalia, Grenada, etc) please list them and I will add them.
once we have a final list, we will take the first one and discuss it in depth.
I believe the assertion that America has "murdered" more people than any other country throughout history is complete nonsense.
. Al-Qaeda attacked us unprovoked much like the Japanese did at Pearl Harbor said:You ever hear that saying "to have an effect you need a cause." Well the bombing of Pearl Harbor and Al-Qaeda attacked was a effect. We got the Al-Qaeda pissed some how i dont know how.......and the Pearl Harbor had it coming for us................Ok, here goes a Scenario if Presedent Hugo shut of oil supply to the US, what would the US do...just sit back and hope for the best or attack....i think we would attack if they would come to a comprise with 24 hours......now we cut of oil to japon durning WWII when they need oil for there war machine....so they attack b/c of something we did....
Loxd4 said:Ok, here goes a Scenario if Presedent Hugo shut of oil supply to the US, what would the US do...just sit back and hope for the best or attack....i think we would attack if they would come to a comprise with 24 hours......now we cut of oil to japon durning WWII when they need oil for there war machine....so they attack b/c of something we did....
Red_Dave said:im sorry but this statement amazes me im half convinced i misread it. Are you seriously saying its moraly acceptable for the U.S to overide the democratic right on the people of Venezuela to control there own resources, and forceably take there oil. Isnt that theft?
Red_Dave said:Your forgetting that the U.S has supported 12 dictatorships in latin america. Many of which killed thousands of people. Not to mention genocidal regiumes like Israel.
Davo said:11 by my count who am I missing?
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