So conservatives. Is it time to dump the far right?

[Dwight]

Go silent. 3rd parties are nearly irrelevant and should remain so. Crush dissenters, reform the Party.

That war has already waged, you missed it back in the 90’s? Only the side that got crushed, the “dissenters” aren’t the ones you suggest are and should be silenced. Nope, those guys & gals are the ones with a hand clinging to the wheel and a mouth that just won’t shut up. Because they are dead certain that they are [Divinely] right and compromise is a four letter word. They won the coup and the cleansing in the 90’s and won’t go quietly or without metaphorical bloodshed.

 

[roflpublican]

That war has already waged, you missed it back in the 90’s? Only the side that got crushed, the “dissenters” aren’t the ones you suggest are and should be “nearly irrelevant”. They are the ones with a hand clinging to the wheel and a mouth that just won’t shut up. Because they are dead certain that they are [divinely] right and compromise is a four letter word.

^truth....the contract with america ended the days of mainstream bipartisanship in the republican party.

 

[smb]

first i was stating the prediction to a single person i quoted, as too the end, it in my mind did not matter if obama or Romney won, either are going to preserve the union, as to being democratic, i hate democracy, the founders created a constitutional republic, not a democracy, which the u.s. has moved to that direction for the last 100 yrs, and succeed in destroying what the founders created.

as the founders say, all democracies die, a violent death, and you get a dictator...i chose libertarian -right, because there is not title of ......strict constitutionalists listed.

Stating that the founders created a Republic and not democracy is NOT saying anything. Please know the definitions of these terms before you spout, what again, is self-delustional rhetoric. All a republic is, is a form of government that does not rely on a ruling class, soveriegn or other heredity based leadership. The founders made a representative democracy. Not a strict democracy but one that is representative of the will of people through elected representatives. If you don't believe in the democratic process then you don't believe in the Constitution.

 

[Amigo]

how do we connect, Texas, South Dakota, Arizona together?

Yeah, I know Texas is serious. Maybe up the middle there will be the divide. You know the Lakotah Nation is breaking off, right?

 

[Texmex]

Ok, so you think it's better to just throw away the constitution? Look, after time, it will become more of a winning message once people notice how it doesn't work the other way.

Good luck with that.

 

[smb]

the election was not a blowout, it was not a runaway, it was not a mandate.

the balance of power in government is just about the same.

QUESTION! if Romney, had won by the same margin, that obama won by, and the senate had 1 more seat to a republican, and republicanS were going about the day after saying to democrats, "you need to get rid of, or drop the far left of your party.

would the democrats, be saying" sure we will do that, why we need to work together, so we will work with Romney, to get things done in america..........i believe the answer is......NO!

SO WHY ARE THE DEVILING IN THE WORLD OF FANTASY HERE?

I don't know if the left would be saying that but the right sure would be. The narrative would be probably as follows.

The country rebukes liberalism.
The country rebukes marxism.
The country has chosen conservatism.
The Democrats are need to become conservative if they are to survive in the future.

Again my whole point in this thread is that both sides use over blown rhetoric that is more suited as rhetorical devices than as truth. The main problem I find with the modern conservative movement is they believe these rhetorical devices are in fact true.

 

[Peter King]

Until you tame the far right the GOP will continue to lose elections. This country has spoken and those tea party wack jobs are being defeated because of their ignorance and big mouths and that is the bottom line.

It would be wise for the republican party to ditch the too extreme sections of the party if they want to have a chance to win the presidency in 4 years.

 

[Boo Radley]

On which issues? Some may be justified while others are not.

Anything that called for us to invade another country absent imminent threat.

What do you mean "catch up"? What is the standard, who is behind the standard, and how do you propose to catch these people up?

I'd say at least to the 20th century. Younger people will eventually replace older ones. Holding on to ideas that no longer hold water does assure death for any organization. And many of the things that have happened in this country in the last 200+ years are actually positive and worth protecting (real meaning of conservative).

Identity politics rests squarely in the arms of the Left, though. Women and gays are reduced to life support systems for their reproductive organs and most everyone else is either poor or evil. Not to mention all the support for racist groups like La' Raza.

Both sides of the isle have that, but I was speaking more to patriotism being superior to nationalism.

 

[Master PO]

Who exactly is on the far left in this election besides Bernie Sanders (who isn't even a Democrat?)

moveoon , motherjones, environmetalist, who want No fossil fuels used, and many otherS...........since they are there own entity, i will NOT include COMMUNIST PARTY, HOWEVER THEY DID ENDORSE OBAMA THIS ELECTION.

 

[Master PO]

Yeah, I know Texas is serious. Maybe up the middle there will be the divide. You know the Lakotah Nation is breaking off, right?

no, give me so detail on it... please

 

[Master PO]

So Romney and Obama?

Also, if we retroactively apply your logic, Bush is on the far left.

Bush is a neo- conservative.

 

[Master PO]

Stating that the founders created a Republic and not democracy is NOT saying anything. Please know the definitions of these terms before you spout, what again, is self-delustional rhetoric. All a republic is, is a form of government that does not rely on a ruling class, soveriegn or other heredity based leadership. The founders made a representative democracy. Not a strict democracy but one that is representative of the will of people through elected representatives. If you don't believe in the democratic process then you don't believe in the Constitution.

i will gladly put my knowledge of the constitution and the federalist papers against your knowledge .

article 4 section 4...The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government"

federalist paper #39 "plan of conformity to republican principles"

the founder wanted NO! democracy, ...be it direct or representative.

democracies also ...don't have electoral colleges.

we are not supposed too practice democracy, ..but republicanism.

the union was set up to have a 1 direct vote for the people............and 2 indirect votes by elected officials.

 

[Jerry]

Anything that called for us to invade another country absent imminent threat.

Sure, we should have been out of Afghanistan a long time ago, and we played around with Iraq for far to long, also.

I'd say at least to the 20th century. Younger people will eventually replace older ones. Holding on to ideas that no longer hold water does assure death for any organization. And many of the things that have happened in this country in the last 200+ years are actually positive and worth protecting (real meaning of conservative).

What ideas? I don't know what you mean. Like marriage? The whole thing against SSM?

Both sides of the isle have that, but I was speaking more to patriotism being superior to nationalism.

Not to defend nationalism but nationalism is a kind of patriotism. Splitting hairs I guess. THis one could go either way for me, I don't feel strongly about it.

 

[Master PO]

I don't know if the left would be saying that but the right sure would be. The narrative would be probably as follows.

The country rebukes liberalism.
The country rebukes marxism.
The country has chosen conservatism.
The Democrats are need to become conservative if they are to survive in the future.

Again my whole point in this thread is that both sides use over blown rhetoric that is more suited as rhetorical devices than as truth. The main problem I find with the modern conservative movement is they believe these rhetorical devices are in fact true.

how could it?..........there was no mandate either way.

no blowout nothing, so how can any side say the other should move there way?

 

[Jerry]

Bush is a neo- conservative.

Bush is a Liberal through and through. No conservative would have authorized TARP.

 

[Boo Radley]

Sure, we should have been out of Afghanistan a long time ago, and we played around with Iraq for far to long, also.

Particularly with Iraq, we never should have gone in to begin with.

What ideas? I don't know what you mean.

Can't get pregnant if a real rape? Anti homosexual rights. Anti science. Just to name a few.

Not to defend nationalism but nationalism is a kind of patriotism. Splitting hairs I guess. THis one could go either way for me, I don't feel strongly about it.

The words actually have different meanings. Nationalism is patriotism gone bad. It is blind acceptance and obedience.

 

[Master PO]

Bush is a Liberal through and through. No conservative would have authorized TARP.

a neo- conservative wants big goverment...same as the democrats, they are NOT for the social aspects (WELFARE) of a big government, but for control of, people, states, and anything at large and they want to spread, American influence around the world,..... even by force.

 

[Master PO]

Alright, I'll say it again.

The popular vote is only one method for political success, and of secondary concern at best.

Now, when I cast my vote for Romney, I knew what that meant. I am contributing, in essence, to the popular vote, and that my state would go at least 60% Romney regardless. Furthermore, I voted from a heavily Republican county in my state, as opposed to a Democratic-leaning county in my state.

Now, I knew what my vote meant also that, my vote had disproportionate impact in comparison to the rest of the country as a result of the Electoral College. I also knew that whether or not I voted for the GOP, my vote would impact very little within that state's winner-take-all system.

That being said, I can handle that truth, and embrace it wholly. I want the Republican Party to succeed within the next 8 years. In order for that to happen, the GOP needs to be cunning and reshape its platform to not only hit at the demographics it needs and the geography it needs, but also remove unnecessary barriers to some of its conservative agenda.

here is why you are wrong.

our union today is ...........ALREADY MORE OF A POPULAR VOTE......

the founders knew when you voted, ..................you voted in your personal interest.

Aristotle said, a democracy is when people vote in there own interest.......voting only in your personal interest is....... BAD!


the founders created a union ( constitutional republic ) based on civic mindedness of the people.

the people vote IN their (self-interest) by voting for their congressmen......this is a (direct) vote of the people, for a member of the house..know as "the people house"...or the "lower house"

the state legislators appointed their senator for the u.s. senate, this is an (indirect vote of the people) ,because the people of a state elected the state legislators, "The United States Senate is the "upper house" of the bicameral legislature of the United States

the electoral college is the state nominating electors at their party convention, this is an (indirect vote) again of the people, "Generally, the political parties nominate electors at their State party conventions or by a vote of the party's central committee in each State. Electors are often selected to recognize their service and dedication to their political party. They may be State elected officials, party leaders, or persons who have a personal or political affiliation with the Presidential candidate. Then the voters in each State choose the electors on the day of the general election. The electors' names may or may not appear on the ballot below the name of the candidates running for President, depending on the procedure in each State."

the electoral college is supposed to vote in the interest of the union.

why is there 1 direct and 2 indirect votes again?

because the founders knew if we had a Popular vote, people will ALWAYS vote, for what is good for them personally (self-interest)...greed,..... and their would be no interest of the states or the union itself ...represented by the vote.

the founders wanted all 3 getting represented, the people, the state, and the union.

today it has been turned into an interest of the ..........people "ONLY"

this is why our union is failing, because the people don't care about the interest of anything but themselves........"what will the government do for me".........the founders did not create a government to "DO FOR YOU", they excepted you to "do for yourself"

 

[James D Hill]

We won't compromise just for political gain.

Then nothing will change. The war is lost on social issues and until the right comes to grip on that they will continue to lose national elections. Now at the stste level in places like Hughes county Oklahoma, where my familt lives, can you act like a Jesus freak and win.

 

[James D Hill]

Bush is a Liberal through and through. No conservative would have authorized TARP.

Then why did GW Bush act like a right wing Jesus freak on stem cells?

 

[Dwight]

Then nothing will change. The war is lost on social issues and until the right comes to grip on that they will continue to lose national elections. Now at the stste level in places like Hughes county Oklahoma, where my familt lives, can you act like a Jesus freak and win.

But the places are running short, especially at Statewide level. When it stops being safe in Missouri and Indiana the list is getting pretty short. Maybe OK still, Idaho I imagine, and the Swamp Belt. But there are limits, even here in Texas, depending on the office and how viable your opponent is.

 

[James D Hill]

Until you tame the far right the GOP will continue to lose elections. This country has spoken and those tea party wack jobs are being defeated because of their ignorance and big mouths and that is the bottom line.

The fact is the culture war is lost and the left won. We now have many more states that allow gay marriage and two states have legalized marijuana. Medical marijuana is spreading also. The right will never win again on these social issues and until they change this election is going to be the norm.

 

[James D Hill]

But the places are running short, especially at Statewide level. When it stops being safe in Missouri and Indiana the list is getting pretty short. Maybe OK still, Idaho I imagine, and the Swamp Belt. But there are limits, even here in Texas, depending on the office and how viable your opponent is.

That is because Texas has a large black and hispanic voter block and it is possible in the future for Texas to become a swing state instead of a right wing stronghold. I always wondered why Texas was not more liberal than they are with all those big cities like Houston or Dallas. Here in Washington state(The land of legal pot) the big cities carry the state in spite of the fact most of the state is conservative.

 

[Mycroft]

Until you tame the far right the GOP will continue to lose elections. This country has spoken and those tea party wack jobs are being defeated because of their ignorance and big mouths and that is the bottom line.

Why do you care what the Republicans do? You don't have a dog in their Party.

 

[head of joaquin]

We won't compromise just for political gain.

I hope this is true and that the GOP goes into extinction waving the flag of creationism, crank economic theory, crank reproductive biology, and conspiracies galore.