I would say it is. It is also a privacy issue. What would happen if an employer fired a gay person because he "might" get Aids and cost the company money? How about the fat person who "might" have to have a triple by pass?Isn't this really discrimination?
vauge said:I agree with Squawker.
I am a smoker and often enjoy it - most of the time I do not. Hard to explain to non-smokers.
Isn't this really discrimination?
Not legally, no. Minnesota has "at will" employment, meaning that an employer can fire a person for any reason they want to as long as it's not based on a protected class. Smoking is not a protected class. A firm in Michigan, Weyco, just did the same thing as well. If the state has "at will" employment, they can do what they want. Like it or not, it's free-market capitalism.vauge said:I agree with Squawker.
I am a smoker and often enjoy it - most of the time I do not. Hard to explain to non-smokers.
Isn't this really discrimination?
Fantasea said:I don't think I ever met a smoker who didn't pick up the habit as an immature teen ager.
After having watched several nicotine addicted relatives die agonizingly slow, painful deaths, I can't understand why mature adults, who are intelligent enough to realize the risk and can figure the odds, continue to smoke.
Call it what you wish. The truth, as you well know is that smoking is a smelly, filthy, addiction to nicotine, the price of which is an average of fifteen years of one's life, with the expectation of a horribly painful slow and expensive death.Urethra Franklin said:It's called enjoying yourself. Having fun. But what would you know about that.
Fantasea said:Call it what you wish. The truth, as you well know is that smoking is a smelly, filthy, addiction to nicotine, the price of which is an average of fifteen years of one's life, with the expectation of a horribly painful slow and expensive death.
Cigarette: A fire at one end, a fool at the other, and a bit of tobacco in between.
Contrarian said:Good point Pac. I actually had a quasi "rebellion" of non-smoker employees who began to take what they called a "simulated smoke break" because they felt the smokers received additional breaks. Pretty funny, and a cut into our productivity across the board.
But the biggest problem for me was contending with the crushing medical insurance premiums. Every year the insurance companies came back and demanded more money with fewer benefits. Connecticut happens to be a state run by the insurance companies. Many of their HQs are here and the are a very powerful lobby and taxbase. I was so sick of them, I opened an office out of NY just to qualify for NY rated insurance (community rated, not individual company underwriting). As a result I can save approx 20% covering my CT employees through our NY HQ.
Mixed, I am assuming you were responding to our moral and perfect debate colleague Fant... afterall... I am a big fan of vices!
Urethra Franklin said:Do I detect the aroma of hypocricy here?I'm not a smoker, but provided smokers don't do it in my home, I have no problem with their personal choice, and I don't judge, something you do constantly. It's a very ugly trait you have. I've just had houseguests from the UK for the weekend - both smokers who very respectfully went outside when they wanted a cigarette. They enjoy tobacco. They know the risks. Good luck to them.
It would seen that your message regarding your own attitude toward smokers was imparted with sufficient clarity that your weekend guests took their "craving' outside. (I hope it wasn't raining.) Else why were they not encouraged to make themselves comfortable in your home? You know, the, "Mi casa, su casa" routine.For amusement, I trade barbs with folks in this forum.Fant, do you drink alcohol? Tea? Coffee? Eat red meat? They might all harm your health, but I won't be so judgemnetal as to call you a "fool" for using legal drugs like caffeine. You've just criticizd me for namecalling in another thread, but now you're off. However we're used to hypocrisy and incoherence from you.
What do YOU do for fun Fant? What's your idea of a rip roaring good time? Bible class? Saying prayers? Bombing abortion clinics?
Fantasea said:Do I detect the aroma of hypocricy here?
It would seen that your message regarding your own attitude toward smokers was imparted with sufficient clarity that your weekend guests took their "craving' outside..
So you would allow smokers to light up in your home, but you'd sit there tutting, waving the finger and calling them fools. Very welcoming.Fantasea said:why were they not encouraged to make themselves comfortable in your home?
They are free to suck up all the smoke they wish. They just can't exhale.Urethra Franklin said:Not at all Fant.
Cigarettes leave a smell which is unpleasant to non smokers. Not wanting that smell in my home is not the same as labelling smokers "fools" or as judging smokers for what they do to their bodies in the pursuit of pleasure.
They chose to go outside because they are polite people. Most polite smokers don't smoke in other's homes or at the dinner table: just as I don't fart in the same circumstances.
So you would allow smokers to light up in your home, but you'd sit there tutting, waving the finger and calling them fools. Very welcoming.
Fantasea said:. Did you ever notice what happens to these poor unfortunates when the nicotine wears off and they are unable to get an immediate dose?
.
Fantasea said:They are free to suck up all the smoke they wish. They just can't exhale.
Kind of puts us on the same side of the fence, doesn't it?
Call it pursuit of pleasure, if you wish. I believe its more like an addiction they would prefer to shed, except that the pain is too great. Did you ever notice what happens to these poor unfortunates when the nicotine wears off and they are unable to get an immediate dose?
We've all heard the smoker's plaint, "It's just to calm my nerves." What that means is that the stuff is out of their system and they're starting to get the shakes. Absolutely no pleasure involved. Just another kind of 'fix'.
The sad part is that the very young, in an effort to emulate the adult, does what the adult does. By the time youthful smokers realize that they are not in control, they've become addicted and can't break the habit. What they don't realize, however, is that the addicted adult being emulated, regrets that he ever started.
Urethra Franklin said:Same thing happens to me if I don't get my coffee in the morning, but the moment I get my ristretto, it's sheer pleasure.
I think the difference between us is that I don't judge, and I wouldn't stoop to calling them fools. I'm not averse to namecalling when the occasion calls for it, but this wouldn't be one of them, and you who decried namecalling in another thread, should practise what you preach.
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