Sinking ECONOMY vs. Right-Wing Spin

[Stinger]

I have to admit.. I'm not much of an economist. I know, for me, my wages have increased over the last period of 5 years. Moving from the private sector, to civil service attributes to that.

Wages and net worths are up on average because we have had a strong economy thanks to low taxes. Federal revenues are also up because of the same.

But moreso, for the FIRST time since my husband and I got married, we have a decent amount of money in the bank. We are able to spend a bit more, and not have to worry about where the money for the bills are going to come from. We have no credit card debt, as we pay off the 1 card we have each month.

Yet the Democrats, by their opposition to the bankruptcy reform bill, would have taken money from you to pay for those who aren't responsible. It's not fair that a responible person like you has money in the bank and those who are irresponsible have to be held accountable for the debts they run up.

While I cannot attribute this to any one president, I can attribute this to the fact that I CHOSE to do more for myself and my family.

Exactly

This is America, right? So figuring there are a bunch more of me, and what I've done, isn't what we earn, and what we put into purchases the deciding factor on what this economy does? (and no I'm not being stupid here.. I nearly failed economics in high school LOL)

All it takes is common sense and the belief that other people shouldn't be responsbile for you.

 

[RightinNYC]

That's exactly it. I think it. I don't have any facts to completely back me up except for the sudden decline in jobs since 1999. Of course that has much to do with the fact that the IT bubble burst. However other industries should've remained intact. Again though just my opinion.
Then there is the rise of the housing boom, which in most cases responds to a hum dum economy, again just my opion that this is ghetto economy.
Then the historical trend of the economies doing better during democratic administrations then during republican presidencies. Again though just my opinion.
The fact that so many high tech jobs have gone overseas more and more middle class wages have dissappeared. Just an observation.
I'm no economist. I have no idea how to interpret such information other than simply since Bush came to power it seems the economy has become oh hum dum.

I find it amusing that you call a housing boom a sign of a "ghetto" economy. What the housing boom has done in NYC is taken areas that USED to be ghettos and cause them to be renovated and gentrified into $1400 a month one bedroom apartments....

 

[jfuh]

I find it amusing that you call a housing boom a sign of a "ghetto" economy. What the housing boom has done in NYC is taken areas that USED to be ghettos and cause them to be renovated and gentrified into $1400 a month one bedroom apartments....

Simply put, in order for some one to actually have the ability to invest in housing development you would need to be able to have the financial resources to do so. Agree?
Well having such resources to begin with would require that you already be of sufficient wealth. Essentially further isolateing and widening the wealth gap. Fact is actual manufacturing and "service" jobs are getting less and less with outsourcing and the rise in costs that executives to not like to shelve out.
So though your right that development in large urban areas is redeveloping those areas, it's really only overshadowing a greater growing problem of a growing poverty class.
You can cite that unemployment is down to 4.7% a three year low, but that is still a far cry from the unemployment percentage of the 90's. Not to mention employment opportunity is no where as near that of the late 90's.
Housing and development is highly unstable and unrealistic form of "manufacturing" industry. It wobbles and is only as strong as the demand. Seriously isn't there some economics guy on this forum? Make some actual estimations?

 

[Stinger]

You might want to take a gander over here:

http://www.debatepolitics.com/showthread.php?t=7911

NEW YORK (Reuters) - U.S. stocks edged higher on Friday after strong earnings from companies including insurance broker Aon Corp. (AOC.N: Quote, Profile, Research) helped sentiment and the government reported a surprisingly big budget surplus for January.
.............................The U.S. budget registered a surprisingly big surplus of $20.99 billion in January as strong receipts outweighed spending, a Treasury Department report showed.



Hmmm low unemployment, surplus budget, strong earnings reports, wage growth



And some think the economy is sinking?

 

[The Real McCoy]

Just try looking for a job these days, not that easy.

It was for me. A month ago I turned one application in and got hired as a truck driver's helper for Maines Paper & Food Inc. On my application, next to "wage desired" I put "any." My paycheck from last week was for $787 (before taxes.) What an evil, greedy corporation. This is after I dropped out of college after a semester & a half.

Where exactly do you live that jobs are so hard to come by?

 

[RightinNYC]

Simply put, in order for some one to actually have the ability to invest in housing development you would need to be able to have the financial resources to do so. Agree?
Well having such resources to begin with would require that you already be of sufficient wealth. Essentially further isolateing and widening the wealth gap. Fact is actual manufacturing and "service" jobs are getting less and less with outsourcing and the rise in costs that executives to not like to shelve out.
So though your right that development in large urban areas is redeveloping those areas, it's really only overshadowing a greater growing problem of a growing poverty class.
You can cite that unemployment is down to 4.7% a three year low, but that is still a far cry from the unemployment percentage of the 90's. Not to mention employment opportunity is no where as near that of the late 90's.
Housing and development is highly unstable and unrealistic form of "manufacturing" industry. It wobbles and is only as strong as the demand. Seriously isn't there some economics guy on this forum? Make some actual estimations?

1. You're missing the point. I'm not talking about investing in housing, I'm talking about your fallacious claim that a housing boom is a sign of a weak economy.

2. The unemployment rate is "a far cry from the unemployment percentage of the 90's" Um, what 90's did YOU live through?

Yearly average unemployment rate:

1990 5.6
1991 6.8
1992 7.5
1993 6.9
1994 6.1
1995 5.6
1996 5.4
1997 4.9
1998 4.5
1999 4.2

http://www.bls.gov/cps/prev_yrs.htm

So, unless I'm a little mistaken, 4.7 would place this as the third best year out of all of the 90's. Hmmmmmm. Sorta shoots your claim in the foot.

3. Whats your backing for your claim that its harder to get a job now than it was in the 90's? In the past 12 months, I've been offered 3 full time jobs, salaries ranging between 36 and 58 thousand, which I had to turn down because I'm not done with school yet. Of the 15 or 20 friends I can think of off the top of my head who have graduated in recent years, all but one are in good full time jobs or grad/law/med schools, some making 100k+ two years out of college. It's a great market to get hired.

 

[jfuh]

1. You're missing the point. I'm not talking about investing in housing, I'm talking about your fallacious claim that a housing boom is a sign of a weak economy.

No, I'm not missing the point. I've shown exactly what's going on. Weak economy such as that of late 80's and early 90's has normally shown a boom in housing and realestates.

2. The unemployment rate is "a far cry from the unemployment percentage of the 90's" Um, what 90's did YOU live through?

Yearly average unemployment rate:

1990 5.6
1991 6.8
1992 7.5
1993 6.9
1994 6.1
1995 5.6
1996 5.4
1997 4.9
1998 4.5
1999 4.2

http://www.bls.gov/cps/prev_yrs.htm

So, unless I'm a little mistaken, 4.7 would place this as the third best year out of all of the 90's. Hmmmmmm. Sorta shoots your claim in the foot.

Probably does shoot my foot according to those values. However 4.7 thus far has only represented a single quarter, we still have yet to see what the annual average actually is, as even per your link on the BLS 2005 isn't posted yet.

3. Whats your backing for your claim that its harder to get a job now than it was in the 90's? In the past 12 months, I've been offered 3 full time jobs, salaries ranging between 36 and 58 thousand, which I had to turn down because I'm not done with school yet. Of the 15 or 20 friends I can think of off the top of my head who have graduated in recent years, all but one are in good full time jobs or grad/law/med schools, some making 100k+ two years out of college. It's a great market to get hired.

If you're an accountant, yes right now is an excellent time for a Job, thanks largely to Enron.
If you're in the natural sciences or engineering not that easy. Then there's the location factor. Where are you, what part of the country?

 

[RightinNYC]

No, I'm not missing the point. I've shown exactly what's going on. Weak economy such as that of late 80's and early 90's has normally shown a boom in housing and realestates.

Evidence for this claim? Everything I've seen would seem to argue the contrary.

Probably does shoot my foot according to those values. However 4.7 thus far has only represented a single quarter, we still have yet to see what the annual average actually is, as even per your link on the BLS 2005 isn't posted yet.

The annual average for 2005 was 5.1%, according to the BLS, which would make it the fourth best in the 90's, and well below the average for the decade.

If you're an accountant, yes right now is an excellent time for a Job, thanks largely to Enron.
If you're in the natural sciences or engineering not that easy. Then there's the location factor. Where are you, what part of the country?

I live in NYC, where the unemployment rate is significantly above that of the rest of the nation. And I don't know what backing (aside from anecdotal) your above claim has. The company my father works at which is located in the depressed economy of far upstate NY can't hire engineers fast enough. Engineering schools like Cornell and Clarkson have job placement rates in the high 90's.

 

[Stinger]

Probably does shoot my foot according to those values. However 4.7 thus far has only represented a single quarter, we still have yet to see what the annual average actually is, as even per your link on the BLS 2005 isn't posted yet.

Well it was 4.8 before that and 4.9 before that, you just can't stand it can you.

If you're an accountant, yes right now is an excellent time for a Job, thanks largely to Enron.
If you're in the natural sciences or engineering not that easy. Then there's the location factor. Where are you, what part of the country?

If you are an engineer and can't get a job you're not looking, if you aren't will to move, oh well. If you expect someone to deliever a job to your door then you don't desire the job.

 

[RightinNYC]

If you are an engineer and can't get a job you're not looking, if you aren't will to move, oh well. If you expect someone to deliever a job to your door then you don't desire the job.

Exactly. I wasn't even going to get into that, but the many engineering job opportunities here in the northeast are NOTHING compared to the need for engineers in the southeast and southwest.

 

[Stinger]

Exactly. I wasn't even going to get into that, but the many engineering job opportunities here in the northeast are NOTHING compared to the need for engineers in the southeast and southwest.

If you are not even an engineer just an trained electrician, especially with PLC and robotics training, heck if you just want to learn come on down. But if someone is going to sit in a depressed area and complain that the jobs are somewhere you do not have my sympathy, I move several times in my life due to employment opportunities.

 

[oldreliable67]

January advance retail sales report looks good for economy...

The U.S. Census Bureau announced today that advance estimates of U.S. retail and food services sales for January, adjusted for seasonal variation and holiday and trading-day differences, but not for price changes, were $365.4 billion, an increase of 2.3 percent (±0.7%) from the previous month and up 8.8 percent (±0.8%) from January 2005. Total sales for the November 2005 through January 2006 period were up 7.1 percent (±0.5%) from the same period a year ago. The November to December 2005 percent change was revised from +0.7 percent (±0.7%)* to +0.4 percent (±0.4%). Retail trade sales were up 2.3 percent (±0.8%) from December 2005 and were up 8.5 percent (±0.8%) above last year. Gasoline station sales were up 22.7 percent (±3.1%) from January 2005 and sales of building material and garden equipment and supplies dealers were up 14.7 percent (±2.0%) from last year.

Source.

Excluding autos, all other retail sales were up 2.2% in January -- the largest increase since a 2.5% gain in that category since December '99.

 

[ludahai]

Facts won't get in the liberals way. All they want to do is talk down the economy and convince the electorate that is the the fault of the Republicans in November.

 

[The Real McCoy]

Good economy vs. Left-Wing Spin seems a more apt title.

 

[jfuh]

Facts won't get in the liberals way. All they want to do is talk down the economy and convince the electorate that is the the fault of the Republicans in November.

That would be the democrats, not liberals in general.