Should we have corporate R&D tax breaks? Or the child tax credit? Or both?

[Eriech]

always

You believe that for real or did you forget your " /s " ?

 

[Evilroddy]

Revolutions don't have to be violent but they do have to be needed once you're describing here is probably something most people don't care about.

CLAX1911::

Let's ask them, shall we? A national plebicite perhaps?

We don't have a two-party system last I looked into it there's 60 parties. If they're not getting votes enough to be contenders that's an issue they have

Yes, you do. The contender parties are kept marginal by the two major parties which have tipped the playing field in their own two favours. Your seeming denial does not change the truth of the matter.

Cheers and be well.
Evilroddy.

 

[madman]

It's literally called a tax credit. As distinct from a tax debit ... your anti-government ranting adds nothing.

it's always the same shit with their ilk. They solve NOTHING

 

[CLAX1911]

You obviously don’t understand what a refundable tax credit is. All I can do is post the information showing you that it is possible to have the IRS pay (aka refund) more than was withheld in taxes.

I understand it's taking less money that you earned away from you.

It's just a punch in the face to call it a credit as though it's money that belonged to the government the first place

 

[CLAX1911]

CLAX1911::

Let's ask them, shall we? A national plebicite perhaps?

Yes, you do. The contender parties are kept marginal by the two major parties which have tipped the playing field in their own two favours. Your seeming denial does not change the truth of the matter.

Cheers and be well.
Evilroddy.

No the marginal parties are kept marginal because they're either stupid or not different enough from the two major parties to be a major party.

The two major parties we have now aren't always the major parties.

 

[Gateman_Wen]

We had the child tax credit, which was reported to cut child poverty in the US in half. Thanks to Republicans, that tax credit was ended.

"Republicans are calling for the reversal of a rule which requires companies to amortize domestic research and development expenses every five years, instead allowing them to deduct those expenses every year...

Combined with a reinstatement of loan interest deductions and a renewal of a "bonus depreciation" tax break, the Republicans' proposal would amount to about $50 billion in corporate tax cuts in the must-pass bill."

Progressives are demanding that the corporate subsidies need to come only with the public subsidies also. In a letter to Speaker Pelosi: "Should a particular provision to delay or terminate the R&D amortization requirement be included in any must-pass or tax extender bill, it must be paired with provisions that will provide crucial support to families, specifically an extension of the expanded [Child Tax Credit] CTC and an expansion of the [Earned Income Tax Credit]."

We see who is fighting for the American people, the Progressive Caucus, as usual.

They're going to profit from the results of the R&D, why are we letting them deduct it?

 

[CLAX1911]

CLAX1911:

Your sentence is unclear. Are you asking if these are eugenic and propaganda policies or are you saying that questioning them amounts to eugenics or propaganda?

No government subsidized education is the government telling you that you need the government to survive. Essentially it gets to write itself in as the hero of its own story that's the problem with public education. It's not education it's propaganda.

Is the government deciding on whether you get treatment for whatever illness you have is eugenics. And if it's the only pair of healthcare it gets to make those decisions not you.

Giving up Independence is never good

Who is the they in they're of whom you speak? The people receiving the programmes or the people directing the programmes?

The people kept stupid by public indoctrination and eugenics

The Army Corps of Engineers did a pretty good job in the past. More of them and less of the public-private partnerships which line corporate pockets and give them tolling rights might be nice.

Well they're flunkies now so that's not a solution. If it weren't we wouldn't need infrastructure it would just be well maintained they couldn't do that so they're flunkies.

Perhaps that is due to the fact that governments should not be delivering such technologies but rather reducing obstacle and barriers to entry against new firms which can.

The only barrier that exists is that it's not as good as natural gas energy production or diesel and gasoline.

I'm 100% for the government getting out of it but if they did it would totally collapse it is only

Agreed.

Anybody who or any firm which earns or owns 50 times (earnings) and 1000 times (wealth) more respectively than the average American earns or owns in net, not gross terms.

Cheers and be well.
Evilroddy.

To the people that get tax breaks regardless of who's in office in regardless of what country they live in because they are the donor class.

Text code is a spider web spider webs catch flies and wasps go free this is a law the survival you need to learn. As long as there is money there will not be fair taxes for the donor class.

 

[jcgriff2]

We had the child tax credit, which was reported to cut child poverty in the US in half. Thanks to Republicans, that tax credit was ended.

Biden only funded the child tax credit through the end of 2021 and you damn well know it.

The Republicans had nothing to do with ending this credit. The GOP voted NAY to Biden's lunatic BBB - which contained the funding to keep this tax credit going into 2022.

Biden wrongly assumed that his asinine BBB for $5 Trillion would just sail through Congress, but 2 DEMOCRAT Senators would not vote YEA for it. Remember? It was the democrat's fault.

Senators Manchin (D-WV) and Sinema (D-AZ) torpedoed Biden's BBB which resulted in the child tax credit not being funded into 2022. Manchin said "no way am I giving those drug addicts all of this money to feed their habits" which is where most of it gets spent. The children go hungry.

Ever been to West Virginia? Democrats have totally destroyed it by shutting down every coal mine possible. WVA is a huge welfare state as there are no jobs. It is sad to see.

If this tax credit was so vital and cut 50% of child poverty (LIE), why didn't Biden put more money into it initially instead of only funding it for a few months? The reason is - this is a typical democrat tactic. Dems tell us that "it will only cost $10 million", but don't ever tell us that it needs to be renewed every year forever for at least $40 million, plus additional monies to cover inflation, which these days is ~$10 million/year.

Unbelievable.

 

[jcgriff2]

They're going to profit from the results of the R&D, why are we letting them deduct it?

If you take away R&D deductions, literally no one will fund R&D due to the enormous financial risk involved.

That will end new inventions unless they are a "sure thing" (guaranteed).

 

[Craig234]

They're going to profit from the results of the R&D, why are we letting them deduct it?

I think the theory is that society benefits by encouraging it, but of course it can also be just another 'tax cut for the rich'.

 

[independentusa]

We had the child tax credit, which was reported to cut child poverty in the US in half. Thanks to Republicans, that tax credit was ended.

"Republicans are calling for the reversal of a rule which requires companies to amortize domestic research and development expenses every five years, instead allowing them to deduct those expenses every year...

Combined with a reinstatement of loan interest deductions and a renewal of a "bonus depreciation" tax break, the Republicans' proposal would amount to about $50 billion in corporate tax cuts in the must-pass bill."

Progressives are demanding that the corporate subsidies need to come only with the public subsidies also. In a letter to Speaker Pelosi: "Should a particular provision to delay or terminate the R&D amortization requirement be included in any must-pass or tax extender bill, it must be paired with provisions that will provide crucial support to families, specifically an extension of the expanded [Child Tax Credit] CTC and an expansion of the [Earned Income Tax Credit]."

We see who is fighting for the American people, the Progressive Caucus, as usual.

As a business expense, isn't R&D already a business deduction?

 

[Craig234]

As a business expense, isn't R&D already a business deduction?

Good question, I assume it's somehow in addition, here's a little info. https://www.kbkg.com/research-tax-credits

 

[Ishm]

Ishm:

Is young people being able to get a good education just immediate gratification? Is people being able to get access to good universal healthcare just immediate gratification? Is rebuilding or repairing vital infrastructure just immediate gratification? Is transitioning to less polluting and more sustainable energy generation and transportation technologies just immediate gratification?

You know what might be considered immediate gratification? Another Ford Class aircraft carrier to amuse some admirals, another bank bailout to cover for reckless trading or banking practices, lavish consultancy contracts to all sorts of individuals and firms which produce little real impact on the wellbeing of Americans or subsidizing foreign militaries so that they can terrorize and dominate their own people or their unfortunate neighbors. Tax cuts for the rich - that's immediate gratification, not education.

Cheers and be well.
Evilroddy.

Seems you and I mostly agree. Education, infrastructure, healthcare, renewable energy are all investments in a better future for the generations to come. Not sure I totally agree about the aircraft carrier argument given the state of world politics though. As for the geopolitics of arm sales etc, I have to say that is above my pay grade and I really can't feel qualified to comment other than to say it seems like a very murky, and probably often illicit world.

I support both cutting fed spending and increasing the tax on higher wealth until the deficit is a surplus. Trickle down economics has failed every time the US has tried it, so it is insane to keep repeating that failure. Taxing the higher end personal wealth has the lowest impact on personal spending & gdp, while increasing the tax take. Taxing corporates more though is a much more tricky calculation in todays world where some countries use low taxes to attract large corporate offices.

On the Fed spending side the US is in an awful position with SS, and even worse with healthcare where the Fed is rapidly increasing spending to support both the aging population and increasing income/wealth inequality where so many people can't afford the worlds most expensive healthcare where the cost grows faster than incomes virtually every year and has down for decades. Once you remove SS, Healthcare, Defense, and Interest payments from the Fed budget, there isn't a lot left to cut costs out of. Last time I checked, those 4 items consumed nearly as much as the Fed tax take, so the country was almost in deficit before the Fed govt spent a cent on actually running the country.

The state is the SS fund a horrible reflection on govt mismanagement. Used for decades as cheap funding of govt debt, while other wealthy countries have turned their SS funds into high yield assets, averaging around 10% per annum returns over decades. If the US had done similar, the SS fund would have more money in it than the country could ever spend on SS, and the tax liability on future generations would be reducing rather than increasing. Now though it is too late to do anything other than increase future taxation as the 'ponzi scheme' of endless fast population growth has ended.

 

[washunut]

Good question, I assume it's somehow in addition, here's a little info. https://www.kbkg.com/research-tax-credits

There are many differences between book income and taxable income. Remember when the last spending/taxing law was passed. Part of that was to insure that companies with book income above a certain level paid some corporate taxes.

 

[Ug make hammer]

I would rather not be a simp for government. So thanks for the compliment.

Calling it a tax credit is a punch in the face. We get to keep credit for our labor because the government decides not to steal it.

Oh please give me credit for my own labor don't steal from me govern me harder Daddy. And anybody who doesn't beg for this and doesn't exhibit this Stockholm syndrome for their oppressors is anti-government.

Come up with a cut down that means something not something I'm proud of.

OK then. People who spend most of their earned and welfare income on recreational drugs, should be able to claim all the cost off their tax.

You're fine with that. You have to be: you can't pick and choose between good tax credits and bad ones, now that you've declared all tax to be wrong.

 

[Ug make hammer]

It’s even worse than that. What is being called a “refundable tax credit” is, in fact, simply a federal subsidy. It means that the federal income tax (FIT) refund amount can actually exceed the amount of FIT withheld.

Stimulus Checks for People with Disabilities | Financial Resilience Center

Get answers to frequently asked questions about Economic Impact Payments (EIP), also commonly known as stimulus payments, and other tax credits that may help put more money in your pocket.

www.nationaldisabilityinstitute.org

Why do you have a problem with government paying out money to parents who can't otherwise support their own children?

Or to put it another way: why are you OK with child poverty? Children can't be blamed, the way you like to blame poor adults. Childhood poverty is crippling, it causes intergenerational poverty and crime. Anything to reduce that, is taxpayer money well spent.

 

[CLAX1911]

OK then. People who spend most of their earned and welfare income on recreational drugs, should be able to claim all the cost off their tax.

Welfare income isn't something they aren't it's something that was stolen and given to them why in the hell would that be taxed it is taxes that's what they go to.

You're fine with that. You have to be: you can't pick and choose between good tax credits and bad ones, now that you've declared all tax to be wrong.

That's assuming that welfare is income it isn't tax dollars being given to people just because.

 

[Ug make hammer]

Welfare income isn't something they aren't it's something that was stolen and given to them why in the hell would that be taxed it is taxes that's what they go to.

That's assuming that welfare is income it isn't tax dollars being given to people just because.

Wow, I wasn't expecting you to fly off the handle just because I mentioned welfare.

OK, let's leave that out. Every taxpayer should be able to claim food, rent, mortgage, ammo, recreational drugs or prostitute fees off their tax. You aren't going to pick and choose, you can't pick or choose what can be claimed, because "taxation is theft" and so all tax credits are good to you.

 

[Ug make hammer]

it's something that was stolen and given to them why in the hell would that be taxed it is taxes that's what they go to.

Calm down man. Welfare recipients do sometimes pay tax. And I don't mean just sales tax or payroll tax, they sometimes pay income tax also. You have to decide whether they're entitled to a tax rebate (because tax is theft) of whether it should be discounted according to their welfare receipts (because welfare is wrong, or whatever).

 

[RetiredUSN]

The federal government has been promoting R&D since our first congress.

Without it we might be posting with Sticky Notes.

Yeah.........R&D should be alloted tax credits. It's a no brainer.

 

[CLAX1911]

Wow, I wasn't expecting you to fly off the handle just because I mentioned welfare.

Theatrics aren't a substitute for a point

OK, let's leave that out. Every taxpayer should be able to claim food, rent, mortgage, ammo, recreational drugs or prostitute fees off their tax. You aren't going to pick and choose, you can't pick or choose what can be claimed, because "taxation is theft" and so all tax credits are good to you.

There shouldn't be taxes.

 

[CLAX1911]

Calm down man. Welfare recipients do sometimes pay tax. And I don't mean just sales tax or payroll tax, they sometimes pay income tax also. You have to decide whether they're entitled to a tax rebate (because tax is theft) of whether it should be discounted according to their welfare receipts (because welfare is wrong, or whatever).

Dumb. Just give them less why pretend they are paying taxes.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Why do you have a problem with government paying out money to parents who can't otherwise support their own children?

It’s more the how than the what. The clear purpose of the 16A is to obtain federal revenue. The agency in charge of this (new welfare?) program is the Internal Revenue Service. It makes no sense to have or create negative income tax rates.

Or to put it another way: why are you OK with child poverty?

Since we are putting it another way: Why are you OK with the federal income tax (FIT) code actually creating income inequality?

Two FIT returns with an identical amount of gross income should have to pay an identical amount of federal income tax. That (income equality) remains true no matter how or upon who that income was later spent.

Children can't be blamed, the way you like to blame poor adults.

I never blamed either children or poor adults for screwing around with the FIT code.

Childhood poverty is crippling, it causes intergenerational poverty and crime. Anything to reduce that, is taxpayer money well spent.

Use (abuse?) of the IRS and the FIT code aren’t the proper way to address child poverty. There are plenty of federal departments, agencies and programs spending billions annually to “fight poverty”, but the IRS should not be one of them.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Wow, I wasn't expecting you to fly off the handle just because I mentioned welfare.

OK, let's leave that out. Every taxpayer should be able to claim food, rent, mortgage, ammo, recreational drugs or prostitute fees off their tax. You aren't going to pick and choose, you can't pick or choose what can be claimed, because "taxation is theft" and so all tax credits are good to you.

That is a ridiculous argument. It makes no sense to do so - especially when coupled with progressive federal income tax bracket rates. That policy gives a greater federal subsidy to those with higher annual incomes for an equal amount of annual tax deductions.

A $10K itemized deduction amount results in giving a $2.5K federal subsidy for someone with income in the 25% tax bracket rate, but results in giving a $3.5K federal subsidy to someone with income in the 35% tax bracket rate. It makes no sense to give the higher income taxpayer a (40%?) larger federal subsidy for spending an equal amount of their income on government approved expenses.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Theatrics aren't a substitute for a point

There shouldn't be taxes.

Without taxation, how would government be funded? It seems that the only alternative would be to simply print the (additional?) funds required to have any government functions.