Should we cut and run in Iraq or finish the job we started? (1 Viewer)

[Navy Pride]

Your comments please:

 

[Kandahar]

Cut and run.

obv

 

[Hatuey]

Your comments please:

I love how "Honorable Retreat" isnt even a word in Bush's vocabulary or in the vocabulary of anybody who supports him. I think the easiest thing would be to accept that we royaly screwed up create an exit plan and use it within the timeline given by Iraqi authorities. Did the U.S. seriously think we could win their hearts and minds as easily as we depossed Sadam? They dont want our help, they want us out, when we accept that, things will go along alot quicker.

 

[Kandahar]

Hey NavyPride, here's an idea: How about we ask the Iraqi government to have a referendum on our continued presence? We could promise to leave within six months if at least 50% of Iraqis vote for us to leave.

Sound fair?

 

[Tashah]

Your comments please:

Using a bedroom analogy...

When you're in all the way it's exceedingly difficult to pull out prematurely.

 

[Napoleon's Nightingale]

We should begin to slowly withdraw from Iraq and bring our soldiers home. Why:

1. The Iraqis are masquerading Sharia Law as democracy. We didn't liberate them to create another Islamic Theocracy in the Middle East.

2. The Iraqis can't set aside their differences long enough to agree on ANYTHING. The Iraqi goverment doesn't deserve our protection. American men and women are being blown away while they're bickering for years about ridiculous and trivial matters. Tell them to call the State Department when they grow up.

3. The Iraqi defense forces are turning out to be no better than Saddam's goons.

4. High ranking officials in the Iraqi government are just as critical of Israel as Saddam's regime was.

5. The United States military hasn't been any good at guerilla warfare since the American Revolution. We aren't winning over there but we technically aren't losing either. At this point, it is safe to say that we will never do either.

6. We were told that Iraqi oil was going to pay for this war and we have yet to see one red cent from the Iraqi government. We have an $8 trillion deficit and the tax payers are not a bottomless pit of cash.

7. The war has been mismanaged from the begining and I have seen no evidence that it will change.

 

[Morrow]

How about not asking a loaded question, and trying to hold a real dialouge Navy Pride?

 

[Real Korimyr #9]

Using a bedroom analogy...

When you're in all the way it's exceedingly difficult to pull out prematurely.

The analogy is effective on more than one level. Not only is it extremely difficult, but it's generally unsatisfying for everyone involved-- and it doesn't do any good if the damage has already been done.

 

[Topsez]

We should begin to slowly withdraw from Iraq and bring our soldiers home.

I will disregard everything you said after this... Why? because it is either victory or defeat... Stay for and until victory or cut and run as the poll question asks. If you were a soldier stationed in Iraq and someone told you we are giving up the mission and there is a lottery as to who will be the last to die and then they asked if you want to buy a lottery ticket would you punch them out? Or, would you wonder how to entertain yourself until it was your turn to leave in defeat? Who wants to be the last soldier to be killed or wounded in a war the nation doesn't have the will to fight?

If Democrats take over congress I will write a letter to the prez every day to tell him if funding or support for the war is cut to close shop and bring everyone home and identify because the Democrats that you elected decided to accept defeat... He should demand not one more soldier be sacrificed after quiters quit... how would you like to be last? I'd kill everything that smelled like it might hurt me... and then come home and kill the a-holes that caused my friends to die and get injured for nothing.

 

[Hoot]

Haven't you people heard?!

Bush isn't going to call his new policy "cut and run," he's going to call it "snip and sneak."

Sounds much nicer, doesn't it?

 

[Napoleon's Nightingale]

I will disregard everything you said after this... Why? because it is either victory or defeat...

That is the exact line of thinking, ie the refusal of you guys to suck up your pride and admit that the United States is not an omniscent and omnipotent force in the world, that got 58,211 Americans killed and 153,303 Americans wounded in Vietnam.

 

[rathi]

because it is either victory or defeat...

War is such a costly and destructive method that using that kind of simplistic approach is not rational. The decesion to stay in Iraq should be based on calculating as many factors as possible. You need to analyze current troop deaths, ongoing deployment costs and the dozens of other variables if we stay. Then you need to look at various exist strategies and then look at simulations of what happens to Iraq after we leave. Then you compare both models and see which has the better cost/benefit ratio. Only then should you decide.

This does not mean that I think we should leave Iraq. It just means that claiming we have those two emotional charged choices is not true.

 

[Topsez]

That is the exact line of thinking, ie the refusal of you guys to suck up your pride and admit that the United States is not an omniscent and omnipotent force in the world, that got 58,211 Americans killed and 153,303 Americans wounded in Vietnam.

Do you know what NATO is? Do you know we had a similar arrangement in Southeast Asia? Wesley Clark was in charge of NATO once... what was the affiliation we equal to NATO in SE Asia? Yes, you have your figures pretty neat but you fail to mention the anti war's figures death and injury list result of cutting and running from Vietnam... In Vietnam and the NATO equal alliance over 2,000,000 people were brutally killed when the security vacum caused by cut and run happened. Not only do we have a black granite wall of shame to thank the anti war crowd for we have the responsibility for the 2,000,000+ deaths of are Nato equal in SE Asia to be responsible for... I blame the anti war for all deaths and injuries associated with Vietnam.

War is such a costly and destructive method that using that kind of simplistic approach is not rational.

War is cruelity and there is no refining it.

The decesion to stay in Iraq should be based on calculating as many factors as possible. You need to analyze current troop deaths, ongoing deployment costs and the dozens of other variables if we stay. Then you need to look at various exist strategies and then look at simulations of what happens to Iraq after we leave. Then you compare both models and see which has the better cost/benefit ratio. Only then should you decide.

You could use this empty cowardness to talk about any war ever fought... The American Revolution, the War of 1812, the Mexican American War, WWI, WWII up to present date... Those who cannot justify restarting hostilities with Iraq are so disconnected with the reality that Americans died and were wounded in the original conflict... if one of those casualties were your dad, brother, uncle or friend then you would look at Saddam's cooperation as equal to him urinating on your loss connection's grave. War is based on failure of diplomacy and diplomacy was stetched to the extreme with Saddam and regardless the dollar costs or loss of American or Iraqi lives the failure of Saddam to live up to his agreement must only end with victory.

This does not mean that I think we should leave Iraq. It just means that claiming we have those two emotional charged choices is not true.

If you believe staying while admitting failure you suggest all before the decision that fell fell for nothing but worse you leave the troops there to die and be injurred for WHAT? Anyone who wants the troops to stay after a liberal congress fails to support victory or funding for victory should be the first in line to die for failure... Volunteer so you have a dog in the fight because you certainly don't respect the dogs in the fight right now... a little up close and personal with the enemy may encourage you to support victory... cowards make me want to puke... people who can disregard the loss of lives and limbs as NOTHING make me want to puke and I think they are cowards... If you were there now how would you like the rules of engagement? I say Iron Fist in the military and state department and tell the Iraqi people if we leave we won't come back... and, if they don't get it together and choose terror it will be answered with Mushroom clouds looming above their country. Perhaps those rules of engagement they may understand.

 

[Navy Pride]

Well its 5 to 3 in favor of cut and run and 5 liberals vote to cut and run and 3 Conservatives vote to finish the job........

It is just more proof that democrats must never take over the congress......

 

[Duke]

Should we cut and run in Iraq or finish the job we started?

I've got a better idea: Let's do neither. Let's all sit around screaming sensationalist partisan buzz words until we're blue in the face.


Duke

 

[Morrow]

Well its 5 to 3 in favor of cut and run and 5 liberals vote to cut and run and 3 Conservatives vote to finish the job........

It is just more proof that democrats must never take over the congress......

What is it you're afraid of?

 

[Spencer Collins]

If Iraq wants Democracy and I'm not convinced that they do,it's time that they spill their [own] blood for their cause. Most of us are happy to see Saddam out of power. The American Saddam [apologists] are not fooling anyone except themselves! No..we should not Cut N' Run but we should pull back to the borders and let them handle their own affairs. Iraqi troops have had more training than many of our troops did throughout history. Now let them fight for freedom,we cannot do this for them forever!

The final decision is in their own hands not ours. Let them have their civil war and let nature take it's course. We are not nation builders..we offer democracy. In this case we cast Perls before swine..the Perls of democracy will be trampled unless they embrace democracy in much larger numbers.

The clock is ticking..they must fight and hold their ground,let them spill their blood. It's the Iraqi troops that cut n' run...they must fight now!

 

[mikhail]

Its the words used that spoil this arguement.

Cut and run sounds wussy doesent it sounds like are you gonna fight like a man till the jobs done jimmy or are you gonna cut and run like a girl.

Look how small the green zones are in comparison to the country. Look what happens when convoys leave a green zone.

I use to feel more posistive about this but things dont seem to be getting any better they seem worse than a year ago.

It needs new ideas it seems there is no real exit strategy this never happened when the nazis fell it seems like a land of endless destruction and fighting.

I dont like saying cut and run but if things just keep going wrong it will have to happen.

 

[GarzaUK]

Well its 5 to 3 in favor of cut and run and 5 liberals vote to cut and run and 3 Conservatives vote to finish the job........

It is just more proof that democrats must never take over the congress......

I personally don't think we should just cut and run and I'm a whacko liberal compared to you yanks LOL :shock:

This was America's war, she waged it, the President waged it, Congress waged it and yes the people waged it. In a democracy the people are also to blame for politicans policies.
America waged it on false pretenses and lies. The Bush Administration ignored history of the region, they ignored alot of thinks because they were bought over by the Neo-Con rainbow to controlling the region through indirect power.

If America does pull out, the ME will collapse and the results will be far worse than Americans dying, believe me.
So suck it up and finished this immoral war that you started. You will no win this war, but you must stay until the damages are limited.

 

[Inuyasha]

By"the job we started" you obviously are referring to the installation of an American or at least Western type of democracy. The only Muslim country that even comes close to that is Turkey and that is not really a democracy by western standards. The Muslims will never be democratic nor secular unless it a Saddam or Qaddafi type secular leader. They Muslims are a waste to time, money and energy when it comes to implanting democracy unless you are speaking in terms of more than 4 generations. If that is you objective I object to publicly funding a conflict of that duration.

 

[26 X World Champs]

Your comments please:

As always this poll is slanted in the way the question is asked to allow Navy Pride to make himself feel more secure about his conservative radio bullshit talking points.

Dems are not for a simple "cut and run" but Navy Pride presents this poll "as if."

It's so weird to me to see anyone start a worthless poll where the choices are heavily biased by the thread starter. I myself did the same crapola earlier in my DP career but came to understand how worthless and stupid it was to create a meaningless poll. :doh

 

[26 X World Champs]

Well its 5 to 3 in favor of cut and run and 5 liberals vote to cut and run and 3 Conservatives vote to finish the job........

It is just more proof that democrats must never take over the congress......

SEE! Proof that this entire thread was created for NP to enjoy some political masturbation.

Hey Navy....since you're calling everyone who wants to find a way out of Iraq a Liberal you are therefore including 69% of America (latest poll numbers who think Iraq was a mistake).

It is FUN to watch NP stroke himself like this...very revealing...

 

[ProudAmerican]

http://www.glennbeck.com/realstory/iraq-video.shtml

the video says it all.

 

[Navy Pride]

What is it you're afraid of?

The Democrats taking over the HOR and a nutcase like Nancy Pelosi being the majority leader...........

Is that clear enough for you?

 

[Navy Pride]

Its the words used that spoil this arguement.

Cut and run sounds wussy doesent it sounds like are you gonna fight like a man till the jobs done jimmy or are you gonna cut and run like a girl.

Look how small the green zones are in comparison to the country. Look what happens when convoys leave a green zone.

I use to feel more posistive about this but things dont seem to be getting any better they seem worse than a year ago.

It needs new ideas it seems there is no real exit strategy this never happened when the nazis fell it seems like a land of endless destruction and fighting.

I dont like saying cut and run but if things just keep going wrong it will have to happen.

I grieve for every loss of American life in Iraq but in 3 years there we have lost less then 3,000 men......In WW2 we lost 6,000 men on D Day at the landings on Normandy....You have yo put things in the proper prospective.........