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Should we change our electoral system?[W:319]

Should we change our system for electing presidents?

  • Total voters
    96
Re: Should we change our electoral system?

vesper said:
Our system is most fair and quite a stroke of genius by the founders.
The Electoral College was originally designed by the Founding Fathers as a federal hedge against the domination of the absolute national majority over the individual states because without it, the balance between national unity and regional distinctiveness would be lost and the various states would lose much of their power over the executive branch.

The left side of the aisle often promote abolishing the Electoral College. But then again, most on the left are pretty much "not" for states rights. It would be fine with them if California, New York, and all the heavily populated areas who have been groomed to be leftists, make the decision of president for all the people. No thanks.
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As often as we disagree, we agree there.
 
Re: Should we change our electoral system?

We should. The system needs to be made stronger to make it harder for a few states to dominate.
 
Re: Should we change our electoral system?

No any change to it like going to a direct election would push this country closer to a direct democracy which would be a great folly for this country. I would change though the election of state senators. Change back from direct election to election by the state legislator.
 
Re: Should we change our electoral system?

cpgrad08 said:
No any change to it like going to a direct election would push this country closer to a direct democracy which would be a great folly for this country. I would change though the election of state senators. Change back from direct election to election by the state legislator.
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Yes, a direct democracy is a bad idea. Too many people are swayed by the charlatanism and pundits to really do what is right at the ballot box. Just look at the idiots we keep electing.
 
Should we change our electoral system?

Personally I would prefer the establishment of strict quorum standards for a valid election. If the election of a president cant bring at least a simple majority of the people, then the candidates must suck.


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Re: Should we change our electoral system?

Aberration said:
Personally I would prefer the establishment of strict quorum standards for a valid election. If the election of a president cant bring at least a simple majority of the people, then the candidates must suck.


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If you are basing that on past elections, you shouldn't. This most recent one had Trump winning the popular vote in the 49 states excluding California. He lost California, but guess what. He played the games by the rules in place, so he didn't even try for California. He knew the electoral vote for California was a no win for him. There were no important congressional races for republicans either, to spend presidential resources on. You can bet everything you own, if the popular vote was a criteria, he would have campaigned differently, and won that too.
 
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Re: Should we change our electoral system?

haymarket said:
One person - one vote with no vote carrying any more power than any other vote. The only way to achieve that is strict popular vote. Get rid of the EC.
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That's the absolute worst idea, we aren't a democracy. You'd have to change a lot more than the EC to get your desired fast track to despotism.
 
Re: Should we change our electoral system?

Yes, despotism would be a likely outcome.
 
Re: Should we change our electoral system?

OpportunityCost said:
Only when it coincides with Democrats gaining power politically.
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There you go. Write my responses for me and it saves me the time of doing it myself - no matter how inane you come up with your own nonsense. This makes my life so much easier. :doh:roll:;)
 
Re: Should we change our electoral system?

Renae said:
That's the absolute worst idea, we aren't a democracy. You'd have to change a lot more than the EC to get your desired fast track to despotism.
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That makes no sense on any level. The only thing the Constitution guarantees regarding our type of government is that it be a republican form. Direct election for President still keeps it as a republican form.
 
Re: Should we change our electoral system?

haymarket said:
That makes no sense on any level. The only thing the Constitution guarantees regarding our type of government is that it be a republican form. Direct election for President still keeps it as a republican form.
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I know you're in denial that the American people rejected Hillary, it's hard to fathom that such a thing happened. But they did. Yes yes, I know, California over voted for Hillary giving her a "popular vote win" but California, despite its presumption does not represent all Americans and the electoral system helps to ensure that all voices, not just concentrated homogenous and localized groups cannot dominate the political direction of the country.
 
Re: Should we change our electoral system?

Renae said:
I know you're in denial that the American people rejected Hillary,
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Stop right there. DO NOT invoke the will of the American people when the American people voted for Clinton over Trump by a margin of over 2,800,000 votes. They expressed their will and it was for Clinton.

So your false premise fails.
 
Re: Should we change our electoral system?

haymarket said:
Stop right there. DO NOT invoke the will of the American people when the American people voted for Clinton over Trump by a margin of over 2,800,000 votes. They expressed their will and it was for Clinton.

So your false premise fails.
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And that you stopped right there shows why you fail. The people, rejected Hillary, that's why she's washed up has been politician and DJT is Mr. President.
 
Re: Should we change our electoral system?

Renae said:
And that you stopped right there shows why you fail. The people, rejected Hillary, that's why she's washed up has been politician and DJT is Mr. President.
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That makes no sense. You invoked the will of the people and the vote of the people ws with Clinton - not Trump. That false premise dooms your entire argument.
 
Re: Should we change our electoral system?

haymarket said:
There you go. Write my responses for me and it saves me the time of doing it myself - no matter how inane you come up with your own nonsense. This makes my life so much easier. :doh:roll:;)
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Nope, just an observance of your habits. Same as anyone else, no one believes you when it comes to political motives.
 
Re: Should we change our electoral system?

OpportunityCost said:
Nope, just an observance of your habits. Same as anyone else, no one believes you when it comes to political motives.
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Now you are getting the hang of it. :mrgreen: Ignore what I really say or believe and just type whatever comes into your right wing mind. It makes it so much easier for me and you don't have change a thing from what you normally do. :lol:
 
Re: Should we change our electoral system?

haymarket said:
That makes no sense. You invoked the will of the people and the vote of the people ws with Clinton - not Trump. That false premise dooms your entire argument.
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The will of the people is expressed through the electoral college. Not the meaningless popular vote. Had Hillary spent the effort to get people in certain states that she lost, she'd be President.

She did not.

The popular vote is like throwing the most yards in a football game. Sure, it's a pretty stat, but if the other team outscores you... you still lose.
 
Re: Should we change our electoral system?

Renae said:
The will of the people is expressed through the electoral college. Not the meaningless popular vote. Had Hillary spent the effort to get people in certain states that she lost, she'd be President.

She did not.

The popular vote is like throwing the most yards in a football game. Sure, it's a pretty stat, but if the other team outscores you... you still lose.
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The will of the people and the mechanism of the EC ate two different things and that is the purpose of the EC in the first place.

Your football game analogy is really lame. To compare it to the EC it would make more sense if we gave one point for the winner of each quarter and one point for who scores the most points
in the entire game. A team could win three quarters and get three points while the other team wins one quarter and scores more points in the game and gets two points. The team that scored more points loses by an EC type system 3 to 2. That is exactly how the EC functions where the candidate who gets the more votes loses in the end.
 
Re: Should we change our electoral system?

haymarket said:
The will of the people and the mechanism of the EC ate two different things and that is the purpose of the EC in the first place.

Your football game analogy is really lame. To compare it to the EC it would make more sense if we gave one point for the winner of each quarter and one point for who scores the most points
in the entire game. A team could win three quarters and get three points while the other team wins one quarter and scores more points in the game and gets two points. The team that scored more points loses by an EC type system 3 to 2. That is exactly how the EC functions where the candidate who gets the more votes loses in the end.
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Not really, they are the same thing. California voted hard for Hillary, without that overvote, Hillary loses the Popular vote. That's just how it is. Denial is not healthy, get over it.
 
Re: Should we change our electoral system?

Renae said:
Not really, they are the same thing. California voted hard for Hillary, without that overvote, Hillary loses the Popular vote. That's just how it is. Denial is not healthy, get over it.
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That is so ridiculous as if they were the same thing the winner of one would also be the winner of the other.
 
Re: Should we change our electoral system?

haymarket said:
That is so ridiculous as if they were the same thing the winner of one would also be the winner of the other.
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Not at all, they measure different things. The EC gives voice to the Nation as a whole, while a popular vote favors homogenous, dense population areas.
 
Re: Should we change our electoral system?

Renae said:
Not at all, they measure different things. The EC gives voice to the Nation as a whole, while a popular vote favors homogenous, dense population areas.
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You said they were the same thing and they are not as they are two different mechanisms that can and have produce two different results.

here was your false statement
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Originally Posted by Renae
Not really, they are the same thing
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They are not the same thing. If they were they would produce the same results and operate in the same fashion with the same people making the decisions and holding the power. But all that is different in the two mechanisms.
 
Re: Should we change our electoral system?

JamesBY said:
Plurality vote of the state gets both senatorial votes.

Plurality vote of the congressional districts gets each district.

Thus, Utah in 2016 would go 6 electoral votes for Trump, zip for anyone else. Republicans in Texas would get two senatorial and twenty-five congressional electoral votes, and eleven Democratic electoral votes.

That would be a much more representative and democratic system.
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Has anyone analyzed this EC system for the 2016 and/or any other past elections? I have some sympathy for this type of system. Not sure if I support it yet.

The current system overcomes pure democracy about 10% of the time, I am trying to find out how this would affect presidential elections. Any source?
 
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