What say you?
i can think of several paths to transmission of pathogens via improper food handling in this particular case.
the lemonade could be pressed and processed in a kitchen where meat is prepared and surfaces are improperly cleaned. also in most cases, we are talking about children who might not be fastidious about thorough handwashing.
would E. Coli or Salmonella thrive and multiply well in low pH / high sucrose cooled liquid culture? no. however, many organisms would remain viable. i have worked with strains of 0113 and 0157:H7 that have extremely low infectious doses; in some cases, the infectious dose is one organism.
also, norovirus (stomach "flu" / viral gastroenteritis) is efficiently transferred though food preparation by someone who is infected.
do i think cops should go around busting lemonade stands? no. however, i'm very happy that we tightly regulate the food service industry. i responded to this thread to give a little perspective. lemonade stands aren't being targeted for no reason by mean authoritarians who want to ruin a childhood rite of passage. there are legitimate reasons behind an increased awareness and enforcement of food safety issues.
Some scientists are beginning to believe we need a little more of that "stuff" to stay healthy.
......
I am a firm believer in this point-of-view as well... though the dirt sprinkling seems a bit over-the-top.I firmly believe that a big part of the rise in allergies in the last generation or so is because people "live too clean", and are too obsessive about avoiding any possible germ contact. Like anybody else I want to keep the salmonella out of my canned meats, and the rat excrement content of my tuna to a minimum. However, a lot of people got downright obsessive about it in the last few decades and their children were not exposed to a lot of germs and allergens growing up like earlier gens. I came up with this notion two decades ago, and I'm interested to see that some scientists have had the same idea.
When my son was small I tried to keep a clean house, as much as a single working parent can do, but I also encouraged him to get dirty outside, play with puppies and kittens, eat blackberries off the bush, and so on...without necessarily washing everything in anti-b soap first. I also sneaked now and again and sprinkled a tiny pinch of dirt in his food, deliberately.... maybe no more than three or four times in his first five years. The idea was to expose him to stuff that he was going to encounter in the environment early.
He's 16 today and has zero known allergies; healthy as a horse, rarely ill. :shrug:
If it's a kid's lemonade stand then it's crazy to shut it down unless someone complains. As long as the kids are not causing some major traffic problem then I don't see an issue.
You'll have to show me the link for that one! We have garage/yard sales every June in our subdivision. They last all weekend and some of our neighbors are LEO's. No one gets a permit of any kind and never has.
The City Clerk's office issues garage sale permits for all city residents interested in having a garage or yard sale. A residence within the city may have three (3) garage sales each year and is required to receive a permit for each sale.
He didn't say that the government should regulate lemonade stands so I don't know how you could argue that his "logic" would mean that the government should check how he prepares food in his house. His actual point was that there are several ways that kids could transmit pathogens in their preparation and that, as a consequence, it's not the mere desire to exert authority that has people talking about regulation - it's also concern based on legitimate potential problems.Comparing a kids stand to the "food industry" is a bit of a stretch. Using your logic, then the govt. should check how you prepare your own food in your house. Do you wear gloves, wash hands properly, sanitize your prep surface, etc.? Should you have a permit to have guests over for dinner? Yes there is germs/bacteria out there. But give a kid a break.
Makes me wonder how I iived to my 60's since growing up we didn't have all this govt. protection/oversight.:lol:
I don't believe you.The day we start cracking down on little kids running lemonade stands, is the same day I buy a one way ticket to Canada.
He didn't say that the government should regulate lemonade stands so I don't know how you could argue that his "logic" would mean that the government should check how he prepares food in his house. His actual point was that there are several ways that kids could transmit pathogens in their preparation and that, as a consequence, it's not the mere desire to exert authority that has people talking about regulation - it's also concern based on legitimate potential problems.
From his post:From Helix post.: "i'm very happy that we tightly regulate the food service industry"
Who regulates other than govt. (local/county/State/Feds)? Does the same potential of spreading pathogens exist when you prepare food at home? Could you not make a guest sick by improper preperation?
Anytime you handle food there could be a threat. Common sense needs to prevail.
do i think cops should go around busting lemonade stands? no.
That's Sedalia. You said:Our local office for permits.
Official Home of the City of Sedalia, Missouri - City Departments - City Clerk
which I took to mean the State of Missouri. A lot of cities have garage sale permit requirements but we don't, which is why your comment concerned me.To my surprise a few years ago the state made it mandatory to have a permit to have a garage sale.
First off I want to state that I am not a "fan" of Peta and what bothers me in this video is not necessarily what the chickens feel. What bothers me is the unsanitary conditions. What bothers me even more is that the government routinely looks the other way for big business while harassing small time produce and butchers who do grow and produce food in much better conditions. they sometimes even go after the kids lemonade stand. I do not eat mass produced food, because of this and the numerous other videos that are out there of so many of the major companies. People need to wake up to what the government is doing to the innocent small time producers and what they are allowing big business to get away with. So, for all those who have faith in our almighty government who is protecting us... better think again.i can think of several paths to transmission of pathogens via improper food handling in this particular case.
the lemonade could be pressed and processed in a kitchen where meat is prepared and surfaces are improperly cleaned. also in most cases, we are talking about children who might not be fastidious about thorough handwashing.
would E. Coli or Salmonella thrive and multiply well in low pH / high sucrose cooled liquid culture? no. however, many organisms would remain viable. i have worked with strains of 0113 and 0157:H7 that have extremely low infectious doses; in some cases, the infectious dose is one organism.
also, norovirus (stomach "flu" / viral gastroenteritis) is efficiently transferred though food preparation by someone who is infected.
do i think cops should go around busting lemonade stands? no. however, i'm very happy that we tightly regulate the food service industry. i responded to this thread to give a little perspective. lemonade stands aren't being targeted for no reason by mean authoritarians who want to ruin a childhood rite of passage. there are legitimate reasons behind an increased awareness and enforcement of food safety issues.
That's Sedalia. You said: which I took to mean the State of Missouri. A lot of cities have garage sale permit requirements but we don't, which is why your comment concerned me.
First off I want to state that I am not a "fan" of Peta and what bothers me in this video is not necessarily what the chickens feel. What bothers me is the unsanitary conditions. What bothers me even more is that the government routinely looks the other way for big business while harassing small time produce and butchers who do grow and produce food in much better conditions. they sometimes even go after the kids lemonade stand. I do not eat mass produced food, because of this and the numerous other videos that are out there of so many of the major companies. People need to wake up to what the government is doing to the innocent small time producers and what they are allowing big business to get away with. So, for all those who have faith in our almighty government who is protecting us... better think again.
Industrial birds are so full of antibiotics you could throw them into a lab filled with bird flu and they'd never get sick. Not saying that's a good thing, just saying their living conditions don't mean squat with that in mind. I'm sure other stuff, feces and etc, are washed off during processing.I am not gonna disagree with you on the cruelty issue, but my personal issue is the utter lack of sanitary conditions which the major companies get away with for profit. And that the government looks the other way for them and then harasses the small time operations and things like lemonade stands.
Yeah, cause as we saw in the video they are really into meeting the fed standards... oh wait, all that stuff shouldn't be there in the 1st place... You really want to lay any money down on how safe all this food is?Industrial birds are so full of antibiotics you could throw them into a lab filled with bird flu and they'd never get sick. Not saying that's a good thing, just saying their living conditions don't mean squat with that in mind. I'm sure other stuff, feces and etc, are washed off during processing.
We lay our money down every day betting it'll be safe enough to eat. Whether it actually is or not is a different question. You were talking about the mess and possible diseases in the video. I personally don't think that's a problem and I explained why.Yeah, cause as we saw in the video they are really into meeting the fed standards... oh wait, all that stuff shouldn't be there in the 1st place... You really want to lay any money down on how safe all this food is?
Just because people are not dropping dead after eating it doesn't mean that it is good or healthy for you. Perhaps how are mass produced meats are brought to us is a reason why this nation has become the most obese and sickest of the major industrial nations.
And yet people bitch about regulation and government spending. Few realize just how many food industries there are in America. It's takes a lot of money to inspect all those installations and farms but no one wants to pay for it. Personally, I think we do pretty good considering.I do understand that butchering anything ain't gonna be pretty. And with big companies, there will be mass raising for mass slaughter. That will really be hard to watch for the weak stomached people. What bothers me is the amount of standards that are busted on a daily basis. There are sooooo many videos out there of the major food producing companies that are busted, yet the government looks the other way. Yeah, maybe the antibiotics help, but no wonder people are always coming down with something.
I think it kind of depends. If it's just some kid selling lemonade in their front yard or whatever, leave them alone. If it's an organization that is selling it or they're set up somewhere in public where they're getting a lot more traffic, or it's some kind of fundraiser or something, then maybe they should get a permit.
No, we are not. There are countless videos of horrific regulation abuses, horrendous unsanitary conditions. So many times people have turned in these major companies, yet the government will turn a blind eye. I for one feel healthier and am less sick since switching to local homegrown and raised foods. Not only that but they are cheaper besides.And yet people bitch about regulation and government spending. Few realize just how many food industries there are in America. It's takes a lot of money to inspect all those installations and farms but no one wants to pay for it. Personally, I think we do pretty good considering.
Food safety is what I use as a guideline for saying "I think we do pretty good considering". How many people are (provably) sick or dead each year from commercial foods out of the megatons processed each year?No, we are not. There are countless videos of horrific regulation abuses, horrendous unsanitary conditions. So many times people have turned in these major companies, yet the government will turn a blind eye. I for one feel healthier and am less sick since switching to local homegrown and raised foods. Not only that but they are cheaper besides.
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