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Should the US adopt New Zealand's approach to guns?

Should the US adopt New Zealand's approach to guns?


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Using that logic if we only ban elective abortions then the right to abortion has not been taken away because a pregnant woman can still get medically necessary abortions like if the child is still born or carrying the child to full term will cost the mother her life. Or if we ban Islam, Buddhism, and Scientology then your right to religion hasn't been taken away because you can still practice all the legal religions.

• Guns used in mass shootings 1982-2018 | Statista

Not a good analogy at all. Because your right to bear arms is not dependent upon one type of gun, nor is removing one type of gun effect your right to self defense. Where as removing the ability to have an abortion except in certain conditions removed a woman's right to decide what happens to her body.

If banning a certain type of firearm is merely a symbolic gesture then its the same as doing nothing.

Not at all. It does send a message that violence will not be tolerated. Where as doing nothing which is what america does maintains the status quo and as america has shown allows the mass killings to continue.

But most mass shootings are done with handguns.Not semiautomatic rifles IE what anti-2nd amendment trash like to call assault weapons. Are you suggesting that handguns be banned? And when they they switch over to another type of firearm then we ban that type of firearm as well? We just keep banning types of firearms that they keep switching to?

Your link also states that Semi-automatic rifles were used in a number of mass killings. It was the gun used in the nz mass killing. Therefor appropriate to ban.
 
Not a good analogy at all. Because your right to bear arms is not dependent upon one type of gun, nor is removing one type of gun effect your right to self defense. Where as removing the ability to have an abortion except in certain conditions removed a woman's right to decide what happens to her body.
They can still get an abortion, so their right to choose has not been infringed on with a ban on elective abortion. Just as your logic says my right to keep and bear has has not been infringed up even though I can not get a semiautomatic rifle. The 2nd amendment wasn't created so we can shoot burglars and rapists and go hunting. It was created so that average citizens can get together and defend against invasions and remove a tyrannical government. So by banning semiautomatic firearms you are indeed infringing on the 2nd amendment.


Not at all. It does send a message that violence will not be tolerated. Where as doing nothing which is what america does maintains the status quo and as america has shown allows the mass killings to continue.
You admit that it will do nothing.So symbolic gesture is meaningless.


Your link also states that Semi-automatic rifles were used in a number of mass killings. It was the gun used in the nz mass killing. Therefor appropriate to ban.

But handguns are used more in mass shootings than semi-automatic rifles and therefore the more favored type of gun. So using your logic its appropriate to ban handguns.Using your logic we would end up banning all guns. Because your logic is we ban semiautomatic rifles. Then criminals use semiautomatic handguns and we ban those.Then criminals use revolvers and we ban those and so on.
 
No.

What works for New Zealand is good for them only.
 
Similar laws to NZ exist in some states already. If some states decide to interpret 'well-regulated' as written, don't be surprised if they come to a similar conclusion to NZ.
 
77% for None?

Yeah... keep those machine guns... more kids gonna die!! YEAH!!

Merica!!
 
No.

What works for New Zealand is good for them only.

Them only? We were the first to give the women the right to vote... only for our women... what the **** were you doing copying us mate?
 
Of course, NOT.

New Zealand is New Zealand.

The United States is totally UNlike N.Z. in many respects.

For one thing, we have two (very) porous borders and two long coastlines.

Bad actors will ALWAYS be able to get firearms.

The good people will be at those individuals' mercy (and they have NO mercy or decency).

Actually, those porous borders you mention mean guns go out of the US, not come in.
 
Semantics... who gives a ****. People are dead.

Its not semantics. Machine guns will keep firing bullets as long as you keep the trigger squeezed and don't run out of ammo. Semiautomatic firearms fire only one bullet per trigger squeeze.
 
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Its not semantics. Machine guns will keep firing bullets as long as you keep the trigger squeezed and don't run out of ammo. Semiautomatic firearms fire only one bullet per trigger squeeze.

Yeah... that is pretty obvious. But whether a bullet is coming at you a couple of times every second or once every second who cares... it is semantics. Only people that are attempting to create a Straw Man care about such a stupid distinction.
 
Of course, NOT.

New Zealand is New Zealand.

The United States is totally UNlike N.Z. in many respects.

For one thing, we have two (very) porous borders and two long coastlines.

Bad actors will ALWAYS be able to get firearms.

The good people will be at those individuals' mercy (and they have NO mercy or decency).

A border is only as porous as they allow it to be... ours could easily be just as porous, we also have bad actors and very long coastlines....
 
Calling a semiautomatic firearm a machine gun shows that you are either completely dishonest or ignorant as **** when it comes to firearms.

False Dilemma. There are other options Mr. Logical Fail.
 
Yeah... that is pretty obvious.

So you admit that you know the difference.



But whether a bullet is coming at you a couple of times every second or once every second who cares..
.


Using that logic if someone is shot with a 18th century musket then its okay to call that a machine gun too.


it is semantics. Only people that are attempting to create a Straw Man care about such a stupid distinction.

It is not a stupid distinction. Its like calling a car a mack truck. Calling a semiautomatic firearm a machine gun shows that either you are a liar trying spread misinformation or you are ignorant as **** when it comes to guns. And seeing how admitted to knowing the difference then we can't play this off as ignorance on your part.
 
False Dilemma. There are other options Mr. Logical Fail.

You there is a difference between the two. So it isn't ignorance, but dishonesty that is motivating you deliberately call a semiautomatic firearm a machine gun.
 
So you admit that you know the difference.

I never indicated that I didn't...

Using that logic if someone is shot with a 18th century musket then its okay to call that a machine gun too.

Not at all. They are completely different in many ways...

It is not a stupid distinction. Its like calling a car a mack truck. Calling a semiautomatic firearm a machine gun shows that either you are a liar trying spread misinformation or you are ignorant as **** when it comes to guns. And seeing how admitted to knowing the difference then we can't play this off as ignorance on your part.

No it isn't. It is like calling a station wagon a sedan. Both fire very fast. Both shoot many many rounds... the similarities far out weigh the differences. Just like a sedan and a station wagon. Only a person who is ignorant or completely stupid would not admit this fact.
 
You there is a difference between the two. So it isn't ignorance, but dishonesty that is motivating you deliberately call a semiautomatic firearm a machine gun.

They can be called Death Torches for all I care... look at you. 50 people just massacred and all you give a **** about is a little distinction between weapons, about what they are called... For ****s Sake;.... God Damn Pathetic if you want to know the truth.
 
New Zealand Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern announced a ban on "military-style" semi-automatic rifles in the country.
"Today I am announcing that New Zealand will ban all military-style semi-automatic weapons. We will also ban all assault rifles. We will also ban all high capacity magazines," she said. "We will ban all parts with the ability to convert semi-automatic or any other type of firearm into a military-style semi-automatic weapon."


Semi-automatic firearms and "military style" semi-automatic firearms function the same. The only difference between them is purely aesthetic.
According to Ardern, "military style" is defined by the following:
Two types of firearms are now defined as Military Style Semi-Automatics (MSSAs):

· A semi-automatic firearm capable of being used with a detachable magazine which holds more than five cartridges

· A semi-automatic shotgun capable of being used with a detachable magazine which holds more than five cartridges
The new bans are effective immediately, although they will go through parliament for a vote.

Ardern said sellers should halt the sales of the banned weapons immediately and warned shops to return their stockpiles to suppliers.

Residents caught with the banned guns will face the penalties, including fines of up to $4,000 and/or three years in prison.

Democratic presidential candidate Bernie Sanders agrees (with at least banning the sale and distribution):

View attachment 67253213

All societies live in risk, but the minimization of social risk also requires minimized freedom. It requires that people be prohibited from making, buying, selling, or giving access to either products or services that, in some fashion, might contribute to the risk of physical harm or mental distress. In theory, this means most things entail major risk: cars, airplanes, tools, drugs, foods, sports, recreation, religion, speech, or even romantic relationships. All these things and activities can lead to distress, injury, maiming, sickness, emotional pain, loss of income, or even death.

So what is the balance between the freedom to enjoy life and the risk it entails? How does one measure the utility of the maximization of collective safety vs. the minimization of the freedom to enjoy life? How much is a life worth? A million, a billion, a trillion? How much is the freedom of 5M NZ citizens worth, nothing or everything?

The thoughtless and emotional calculus of New Zealand's gun control is, apparently, that if over 75 years one major incident of 50 dead (out of 82 total dead to "massacres" of 2-4 or more) in a nation of 5 million occurs, that it requires a major and permanent loss in the privilege of owning semi-automatic firearms - due to that ONE incident.

If this new legislation cuts the causality rate from "massacres" in half, say to .5 lives saved per year, is it worth it?

I don't think there is a clear and objective answer. For example, perhaps NZ ought to ban motorcycles? There are 1.5 million guns in NZ. There are 200,000 motorcycles in NZ. However, motorcycles kill (on average) the equivalent of one Christchurch sized massacre per year, about 45 persons!

As a ratio of death by use of an instrumentality, collectively motorcycles are 90 times more deadly to the NZ people than a massacre aided by a semi-auto rifle.

Or put another way, there are only 200,000 motorcycles in NZ which kill 45 people per year. There are 1.5 million guns in NZ, and about 5-6 people killed by a gun homicide per year.

In other words, the death rate from NZ motorcycle is 61 times greater than the homicidal gun death rate from any NZ gun.

So how does one accept the proposition that motorcycles are an acceptable risk to public safety, but not guns?
 
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They can still get an abortion, so their right to choose has not been infringed on with a ban on elective abortion. Just as your logic says my right to keep and bear has has not been infringed up even though I can not get a semiautomatic rifle. The 2nd amendment wasn't created so we can shoot burglars and rapists and go hunting. It was created so that average citizens can get together and defend against invasions and remove a tyrannical government. So by banning semiautomatic firearms you are indeed infringing on the 2nd amendment.



You admit that it will do nothing.So symbolic gesture is meaningless.




But handguns are used more in mass shootings than semi-automatic rifles and therefore the more favored type of gun. So using your logic its appropriate to ban handguns.Using your logic we would end up banning all guns. Because your logic is we ban semiautomatic rifles. Then criminals use semiautomatic handguns and we ban those.Then criminals use revolvers and we ban those and so on.

There is no such thing as a right to an abortion. Abortion is not a right, it is a decision. The right in question is the right to choose what happens to your own body. By removing elective abortions you have removed the right to decide what happens to my body.

There is nothing in 2a that states what you say. That is merely your opinion of what can be done with a 2a.

No i did not admit it will do nothing. I stated quite clearly that it sends a message that violence should never be tolerated.

Slippery slope arguments are fallacious.
Robberies , criminals using guns have occurred many times in nz and never once has banning a gun been seen as a solution. That really is a solution that only belongs with idiot america. Because only they would come up with a ridiculous argument that banning a gun will stop crime. laughable.
 
In New Zealand you are a subject not a citizen. The left would make subjects of us all.

Wrong. Where do you get hold of this nonsense?
 
In New Zealand you are a subject not a citizen. The left would make subjects of us all.

There are a few dozen advanced democracies in the world. NZ is one of them. Neither NZ nor any other of these countries have populations stupid enough to believe that their 'freedom' depends on vast numbers or their citizens owning high powered weapons. The US is out there all by itself. I think it a pity that so few Americans take a moment to wonder why.
 
In New Zealand you are a subject not a citizen. The left would make subjects of us all.

Idiocy. Simple-minded idiocy.
 
All societies live in risk, but the minimization of social risk also requires minimized freedom. It requires that people be prohibited from making, buying, selling, or giving access to either products or services that, in some fashion, might contribute to the risk of physical harm or mental distress. In theory, this means most things entail major risk: cars, airplanes, tools, drugs, foods, sports, recreation, religion, speech, or even romantic relationships. All these things and activities can lead to distress, injury, maiming, sickness, emotional pain, loss of income, or even death.

So what is the balance between the freedom to enjoy life and the risk it entails? How does one measure the utility of the maximization of collective safety vs. the minimization of the freedom to enjoy life? How much is a life worth? A million, a billion, a trillion? How much is the freedom of 5M NZ citizens worth, nothing or everything?

The thoughtless and emotional calculus of New Zealand's gun control is, apparently, that if over 75 years one major incident of 50 dead (out of 82 total dead to "massacres" of 2-4 or more) in a nation of 5 million occurs, that it requires a major and permanent loss in the privilege of owning semi-automatic firearms - due to that ONE incident.

If this new legislation cuts the causality rate from "massacres" in half, say to .5 lives saved per year, is it worth it?

I don't think there is a clear and objective answer. For example, perhaps NZ ought to ban motorcycles? There are 1.5 million guns in NZ. There are 200,000 motorcycles in NZ. However, motorcycles kill (on average) the equivalent of one Christchurch sized massacre per year, about 45 persons!

As a ratio of death by use of an instrumentality, collectively motorcycles are 90 times more deadly to the NZ people than a massacre aided by a semi-auto rifle.

Or put another way, there are only 200,000 motorcycles in NZ which kill 45 people per year. There are 1.5 million guns in NZ, and about 5-6 people killed by a gun homicide per year.

In other words, the death rate from NZ motorcycle is 61 times greater than the homicidal gun death rate from any NZ gun.

So how does one accept the proposition that motorcycles are an acceptable risk to public safety, but not guns?

And again the same stupid lack of reasoning but always the blind following of propaganda.

Care to explain just how a banning of any one weapon will reduce the murder rate? I doubt you can. Better to just keep telling a lie in the hope that it will be believed.
 
I don't see many people walking across the border inn New Zealand.

Get a clue.

Really! You should try telling that to the australians. Or try following their argument as to why they will not release the nauru refugees to nz.
 
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