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Should the President of the United States Have the Authority to Pardon Themself?

Should the President Have the Authority to Pardon Themself?

  • Yes, the president has this constitutional authority.

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    30

lurchadams

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Simple question, should either a republican or democratic president have the authority to pardon himself and if he attempts it what should be the consequences?

Yes the president should be able to pardon themselves with zero consequences

No. No one is above the law and any attempt to circumvent should result in the president's immediate removal from office

Other - explain
 

distraff

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Simple question, should either a republican or democratic president have the authority to pardon himself and if he attempts it what should be the consequences?

Yes the president should be able to pardon themselves with zero consequences

No. No one is above the law and any attempt to circumvent should result in the president's immediate removal from office

Other - explain

I don't think the president should be able to pardon anyone, and I believed this when Obama was president. This is a holdover of the ability of the monarch to pardon a subject, and we need to get rid of it.
 

lurchadams

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I don't think the president should be able to pardon anyone, and I believed this when Obama was president. This is a holdover of the ability of the monarch to pardon a subject, and we need to get rid of it.

I agree. Pardoning to me is a way of saying, "our system is broken so we need this autocratic tool to get around it once in awhile".

Hey, folks! How about just fixing the broken system? Isn't that a better idea?
 

distraff

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I agree. Pardoning to me is a way of saying, "our system is broken so we need this autocratic tool to get around it once in awhile".

Hey, folks! How about just fixing the broken system? Isn't that a better idea?

At the very least we should require the approval or the senate or the supreme court for a presidential pardon. I just think giving the president the power to pardon people gives one man too much power.
 

AlbqOwl

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I don't think the president should be able to pardon anyone, and I believed this when Obama was president. This is a holdover of the ability of the monarch to pardon a subject, and we need to get rid of it.

I don't think the President can pardon himself and should not have the power to do so. The power to deal with a President acting unlawfully is constitutionally given only to our elected representatives in Congress to do or to the people at the ballot box should the President run for re-election.

I do support the Presidential pardon, however, most especially in today's polarized and hateful and vindictive political environment. Those targeted by the opposition for political purposes for litigation when, if they were not supportive of the President or a political party would never have been targeted, should of course not suffer unfair consequences for their political beliefs. The risk we take allowing a President such power is that he will use it to benefit friends and cronies who should suffer consequences for bad deeds, and we have seen that happen. But it is a small risk.
 

Cardinal

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Simple question, should either a republican or democratic president have the authority to pardon himself and if he attempts it what should be the consequences?

Yes the president should be able to pardon themselves with zero consequences

No. No one is above the law and any attempt to circumvent should result in the president's immediate removal from office

Other - explain

Anyone who answers yes to this is taking the official position that the President is above the law. And if you believe that then your believe in fascism over Democracy, pure and simple.
 

Skeptic Bob

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Should he be able to? No. Can he? Possibly. It is untested.
 

maquiscat

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Simple question, should either a republican or democratic president have the authority to pardon himself and if he attempts it what should be the consequences?

Yes the president should be able to pardon themselves with zero consequences

No. No one is above the law and any attempt to circumvent should result in the president's immediate removal from office

Other - explain
First off thank you for including the poll options in the OP, for those of us using Tapatalk and can't see actual polls.

So just to be clear, the President would be pardoning him or herself for crimes done before becoming president for which they would have some sort of lasting punishment, say maybe probation, that is still with them during their presidency?

Sent from my Z982 using Tapatalk
 

maquiscat

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I agree. Pardoning to me is a way of saying, "our system is broken so we need this autocratic tool to get around it once in awhile".

Hey, folks! How about just fixing the broken system? Isn't that a better idea?
No system is perfect, and we need a way to correct mistakes. Additionally, if we have a societal shift, such as is happening with the use of marijuana, then we now have a tool to reflect that for those convicted under the previous laws.

Sent from my Z982 using Tapatalk
 

lurchadams

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First off thank you for including the poll options in the OP, for those of us using Tapatalk and can't see actual polls.

So just to be clear, the President would be pardoning him or herself for crimes done before becoming president for which they would have some sort of lasting punishment, say maybe probation, that is still with them during their presidency?

Sent from my Z982 using Tapatalk

Should the president of the United States be able to use their constitutionally granted pardon authority to pardon themself for any crime committed at any time in their life with zero consequences.
 

Perotista

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Simple question, should either a republican or democratic president have the authority to pardon himself and if he attempts it what should be the consequences?

Yes the president should be able to pardon themselves with zero consequences

No. No one is above the law and any attempt to circumvent should result in the president's immediate removal from office

Other - explain

The Constitution give the president the power of the pardon except in the cases of impeachment. Article II Section 2. The Constitution is mum on a president pardoning himself. That would probably have to be decided by the SCOTUS. Regardless whether a president pardons himself for a crime or not, impeachment and removal via a 2/3rds guilty vote in the senate would remove any president from office. This may help.

https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-.../4-questions-about-presidential-pardon-power/
 

maquiscat

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Should the president of the United States be able to use their constitutionally granted pardon authority to pardon themself for any crime committed at any time in their life with zero consequences.
I am trying to lock down how they would do it. If their punishment is no longer in effect then there is nothing to pardon. They certainly can't do it for anything for while they're president. Until an actual guilty verdict is handed down, there I nothing to pardon. If they are found guilty they immediately loose the status as president and thus cannot issue the pardon.

Sent from my Z982 using Tapatalk
 

lurchadams

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No system is perfect, and we need a way to correct mistakes. Additionally, if we have a societal shift, such as is happening with the use of marijuana, then we now have a tool to reflect that for those convicted under the previous laws.

Sent from my Z982 using Tapatalk

So how about a way to correct mistakes by incorporating democracy into the process? If POTUS wants to pardon someone, have their request for pardon go before some type of judicial panel, have this panel publish thief findings/decision on a website for all to read? Something like that?
 

Gaius46

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No, but I voted "other" because of the addendum to the no answer to "remove him from office."

Presidents try to do things that aren't supposed to all the time. If we removed every President who did we'd have removed every President.
 

lurchadams

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I don't think the President can pardon himself and should not have the power to do so. The power to deal with a President acting unlawfully is constitutionally given only to our elected representatives in Congress to do or to the people at the ballot box should the President run for re-election.

I do support the Presidential pardon, however, most especially in today's polarized and hateful and vindictive political environment. Those targeted by the opposition for political purposes for litigation when, if they were not supportive of the President or a political party would never have been targeted, should of course not suffer unfair consequences for their political beliefs. The risk we take allowing a President such power is that he will use it to benefit friends and cronies who should suffer consequences for bad deeds, and we have seen that happen. But it is a small risk.

What should happen to any president that tries to pardon themself, in your opinion?
 

maquiscat

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So how about a way to correct mistakes by incorporating democracy into the process? If POTUS wants to pardon someone, have their request for pardon go before some type of judicial panel, have this panel publish thief findings/decision on a website for all to read? Something like that?
On the one hand that is an idea. However, given that some sentences are terminal I would still like a method that is not going to be bogged down in red tape.

Sent from my Z982 using Tapatalk
 

Gaius46

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I don't think the president should be able to pardon anyone, and I believed this when Obama was president. This is a holdover of the ability of the monarch to pardon a subject, and we need to get rid of it.

It's a check on judiciary - the only check on the judiciary post conviction - and as such is necessary given separation of powers. It's also a way for the people, through the president, to offer forgiveness to someone who was legitimately convicted.
 

antiquity

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I am not sure where in the Constitution such authority is given one way or the other. But having said that what reason would he need to pardon himself in the first place? Because liberals/progressives/democrats don't like him personally? Not likely or a need to happen.
 

lurchadams

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I am trying to lock down how they would do it. If their punishment is no longer in effect then there is nothing to pardon. They certainly can't do it for anything for while they're president. Until an actual guilty verdict is handed down, there I nothing to pardon. If they are found guilty they immediately loose the status as president and thus cannot issue the pardon.

Sent from my Z982 using Tapatalk

So the bolded is your suggested solution or are you claiming these consequences are already defined in our constitution?
 

AlbqOwl

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What should happen to any president that tries to pardon themself, in your opinion?

I don't know that it has ever happened so I don't know. I would imagine that it would be a simple matter of setting aside the pardon by the Congress or the Court though just as happens anytime a President, past, present, or future has made a ruling that the Court ruled improper or unconstitutional.
 

lurchadams

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No, but I voted "other" because of the addendum to the no answer to "remove him from office."

Presidents try to do things that aren't supposed to all the time.

In your opinion, with which I agree.

If we removed every President who did we'd have removed every President.

But in this thread we're talking specifically about the president trying to pardon himself for a crime he's been convicted of. If there are other things you think the president should or should not have the authority to do please feel free to start your own poll, my friend.
 

Perotista

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Anyone who answers yes to this is taking the official position that the President is above the law. And if you believe that then your believe in fascism over Democracy, pure and simple.

I don't think so. The Constitution is quite explicit in that any president has the power of the pardon with the exception in the cases of impeachment. Whether or not any president can pardon himself would be left up to the SCOTUS to rule on it. The Constitution is mum on that point. Regardless whether he can or can't, depending on how the SCOTUS would rule, his pardon wouldn't stop the impeachment process. At worst, a president who pardons himself still could be removed from office. Perhaps he then couldn't stand trail in a civil court for his crimes, but he would be removed.

You can get the exact wording in Article II Section 2 of the constitution. The fact is until the SCOTUS rules on a self pardon, no one knows for sure. What we do know for sure is a self pardon wouldn't stop impeachment proceedings and a guilty vote by 2/3rds of the senate would remove any president from office.
 

lurchadams

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On the one hand that is an idea. However, given that some sentences are terminal I would still like a method that is not going to be bogged down in red tape.

Sent from my Z982 using Tapatalk

"some sentences are terminal" - are you talking about someone sentenced to death?

So with the judicial panel include in the constitution a time limit whereby the panel has to render their decision.
 

lurchadams

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It's a check on judiciary - the only check on the judiciary post conviction - and as such is necessary given separation of powers. It's also a way for the people, through the president, to offer forgiveness to someone who was legitimately convicted.

So you think "the people" wanted Clinton to pardon Seth Rich? You think "the people" wanted to pardon Joe Arpaio?

Answer: No. The first was a quid pro quo and the second was because our current president rewards and praises loyalists and racists.
 

lurchadams

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I don't think so. The Constitution is quite explicit in that any president has the power of the pardon with the exception in the cases of impeachment. Whether or not any president can pardon himself would be left up to the SCOTUS to rule on it. The Constitution is mum on that point. Regardless whether he can or can't, depending on how the SCOTUS would rule, his pardon wouldn't stop the impeachment process. At worst, a president who pardons himself still could be removed from office. Perhaps he then couldn't stand trail in a civil court for his crimes, but he would be removed.

You can get the exact wording in Article II Section 2 of the constitution. The fact is until the SCOTUS rules on a self pardon, no one knows for sure. What we do know for sure is a self pardon wouldn't stop impeachment proceedings and a guilty vote by 2/3rds of the senate would remove any president from office.

Where in the constitution is it mandated that SCOTUS review any presidential pardon attempt?

How can we be assured the president will be held accountable when his own party can kill the impeachment process in one of the chambers?

Sorry - still no accountability.
 
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