Should the leader of the democratic party apologize to Gen. Petraeus?

[ReverendHellh0und]

I am sorry really, I shouldn't have attacked you the way I did. I don't really know you that well. I just noticed you referred to yourself as "the reverend" and I found it to be a bit discouraging. I don't do well with authority.

Well there is no need to apologize my friend, I have been called a lot worse things than "holy" :lol: And while I am an authority on most intellectual endeavors I can assure you I hold no authority over you.

As for how good looking and smart you are...well you would kind of have to prove that somehow.

You gotta have faith my friend! :lol:

Unless your a hot chica..... Then you can pm me.... :lol:

I don't think that the Democrats will apologize to Patraeus because they are not the ones who directly attacked him. By doing that it would show the people of America that they supported the Ad at some point. They are in a catch-22 situation here...You have to realise that both sides are constantly fighting for your vote, with almost blatant disregard for human life/and or dignity. The Democrats will play their cards with a poker face just like the Republicans would. There are so many organizations out there like MoveOn.org that would make statements like this.

I can see that point however they should have denounced it. That does not show support was ever given. They should have stood with Republicans in denouncing it.


But that was not why the ad was published...... wait for it....

The Anti-War machine has been getting a big push lately from the American people. They are just sick of war...at all costs.

You have to understand something simple. The right to free press.



You also have to understand that this right is abused by the BIG news organizations all of the time. Conglomerate media-fronts use this right of the free press to keep ideas contained, and to keep our minds free of international politics - and keep Kobe Bryant in the foreground. No I am not saying that is not what people want to hear/see, but it is simple abuse of the outlet of communication to pump so much BS into the press.

Basically, freedom of the press is great - as long as you own the press.
The fact that something so derogatory slipped out of this organized machine is a miracle. We should be proud to be able to say "General Betray Us".
It is the choice of the people to believe it or not. To me it seems, if he didn't betray us there would be mounds of evidence and backing on his part. People would have to rely upon research to find this out and no body would agree with it by that point, and it would be just a big waste of money on MoveOn.org's part.

I would agree with you if there was no such thing as talk radio or the interweb.... And why did moveon place that ad? Wait for it.....

So are you worried that the majority of people are too stupid to find out that the ad is worthless? Then they will all agree with it because it is the agreeable thing to do? Or are you worried that it is true? Why else would you waste your time on this issue...go complain to weekly world news.

The reason that moveon.org placed this ad in my no so humble opinion is to distract the peoples from the Clinton/Hsu scandal that should be front page news all over the place but not suprisingly is not.


Cheers! :2wave:

 

[Iriemon]

Really? You can't understand how Kerry saying that the troops raped, pillaged, cut off ears, killed puppies, etc etc and saying that war crimes were SOP could be interpreted as accusing the troops of being war criminals and murderers? I take it then that you don't understand English.

Of course Doremus wouldn't have understand that because Kerry never said that.

But that wouldn't stop TOT from misrepresenting Kerry's statements or flaming someone who honestly ventured an opinion that differs from TOT's smears, because that's just the kind of guy TOT is.

 

[Iriemon]

Not false clear as day he accused the troops of war crimes and worse:

But no it wasn't Kerry accusing the troops of these things it is the imagined "they" sorry pal but those are Kerry's words and nobody elses and if they are someone elses then Kerry either needs to give up their names or be hung for aiding and abetting war criminals.

Rebutted by the truth:

http://www.debatepolitics.com/634713-post237.html

 

[Iriemon]

Why would the Iraqi people oust the person that THEY put in power?

Good question. If the Iraqi people support him why is it you neocons are hounding to keep US troops there?

 

[Stinger]

Sure, if you are interested in being an imperialist and are foolish enough to try to take over the entire region.

False argument, this is imperalism and we aren't taking over the entire region. We are trying to prevent others from doing so.

Part of our biggest threat? Please tell me what the rest of it is.

You don't know the threat that is out there, they are quite loud about it.

You are assuming that the terrorists that are recruited all go to Iraq.

You are assuming the aren't. I use the statements of the terrorist leaders, that they view this as the main front for their war against us, what do you use?

After five years of war, if your statement is true, we would have killed them all. Apparently, your statement is false.

Why do you say we would have killed them all? That's not how war works in most cases. Germany was fielding it's largest army at the END of WW2, same in the Civil War here.

You are the one who thinks that as long as we are in Iraq, they can't get into America. That is what is ludicrous.

We can have a better discuss if you tell me what YOU believe instead of making things up that you claim I believe.

You sound hysterically scared.

Do you really think people around here fall for your silly rhetoric?

We did succeed. We defeated Saddam, he will never be in power again.

So you agree with Bush when he said "Mission Accomplished"?

What do you consider success?

The success for what we are doing there have been repeatedly stated by the Bush administration, don't you listen?

If we leave Iraq tommorrow we will be just as sovereign a nation as we were 9-10-2001. Our borders won't change, our government is still intact, and our way of life if unscathed. Don't be scared.

And what happened on 9-11? Was our way of life unchanged.

The dems didn't lie to the UN. They didn't lie to America. They didn't lie to the world. Y

Then Bush did lie, he said the same thing they did.

you should read the NIE and WSJ.

I have, I don't think you have.

They are sabre rattling. They say boo and you crap your pants. They haven't attacked our sovereign nation. You can sleep at night. Enough of the boogeymen!

Thanks to the security measures, which the Dems fought against, we haven't been attacked, you are correct.

If we are "defeated", we lose a country that was never ours?

What would that defeat be? I didn't asked what would happen afterwards, what would the defeat itself be?

 

[Doremus Jessup]

Really? You can't understand how Kerry saying that the troops raped, pillaged, cut off ears, killed puppies, etc etc and saying that war crimes were SOP could be interpreted as accusing the troops of being war criminals and murderers? I take it then that you don't understand English.

Kerry, imo, was explaining how the whole country was f****d, and how everybody did horrible sh!t, and he was there. So I guess according to your interpretation he called himself a murderer, rapist, puppy killing, making necklaces out of ears, war criminal too.

 

[Doremus Jessup]

Yes the communists did some horrible things in the name of communism.
Why should Kerry have to talk about that, when we left South Vietnam to the communists in the long-run?

"Communism" could also be replaced with "nationalism."

 

[Navy Pride]

This is an outstanding and insightful point...one I had not considered. Kudos.

They won't attack moveon for one reason...The democrats receives huge sums of money from them........

 

[Navy Pride]

Its amazing after all has happened with Kerry the left wingers can still defend this poor excuse for a human being..........

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

They won't attack moveon for one reason...The democrats receives huge sums of money from them........

Plus they run a good distraction game for HIllary/Hsugate.

 

[Iriemon]

Its amazing after all has happened with Kerry the left wingers can still defend this poor excuse for a human being..........

Really? What a coincidence. I daily wonder with all that has happened with Bush how right wingers can still defend that poor excuse for a human being.........

 

[Iriemon]

Kerry, imo, was explaining how the whole country was f****d, and how everybody did horrible sh!t, and he was there. So I guess according to your interpretation he called himself a murderer, rapist, puppy killing, making necklaces out of ears, war criminal too.

If someone actually reads his speech, Kerry was talking about how the nation was taking its youth and forcing them into a dehumanizing situation of a civil war where you could not tell friend from foe and by that time we were fighting for nothing more than ego, and how the government was sending these boys over there and neglecting them when they came back.

That was not a professional army at the time. The army was draftees from all types of backgrounds. You put a bunch of kids that don't want to be there in a foreign country where they cannot speak the language and you cannot tell friend from foe, and **** is going to happen.

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

If someone actually reads his speech, Kerry was talking about how the nation was taking its youth and forcing them into a dehumanizing situation of a civil war where you could not tell friend from foe and by that time we were fighting for nothing more than ego, and how the government was sending these boys over there and neglecting them when they came back.

That was not a professional army at the time. The army was draftees from all types of backgrounds. You put a bunch of kids that don't want to be there in a foreign country where they cannot speak the language and you cannot tell friend from foe, and **** is going to happen.

Which backround is more barbaric according to you.....

 

[Cold Highway]

Really? What a coincidence. I daily wonder with all that has happened with Bush how right wingers can still defend that poor excuse for a human being.........

Its simple because he wears his religion on his sleve. Remember christian good, everyone else bad,evil, terrorist, traitor etc.

 

[DeeJayH]

It's not hard, as objectively as I can I've gotta say he's pretty clearly a good man who was absolutely not prepared to be President.

ohhhhhhhhhh boy, you are in for it now
Billo Champs are going to go ballistic over this :rofl

 

[buttonpsi]

The reason that moveon.org placed this ad in my no so humble opinion is to distract the peoples from the Clinton/Hsu scandal that should be front page news all over the place but not suprisingly is not.

Well that may be true...but you would have to have proof of it.
Kind of a hard thing to prove. Seems to be a problem.

It is an interesting idea.

 

[Billo_Really]

Originally posted by DeeJayH
ohhhhhhhhhh boy, you are in for it now
Billo Champs are going to go ballistic over this

Galen may be right!

Have you seen that documentary "Journey's with George" by Alexandria Pelosi. It shows a much more human side to Bush than you've never seen before.

 

[DeeJayH]

Galen may be right!

Have you seen that documentary "Journey's with George" by Alexandria Pelosi. It shows a much more human side to Bush than you've never seen before.

while i may believe it, i find it hard you may by your posts about the shrub, the chimp etc...

 

[Billo_Really]

Originally posted by DeeJayH
while i may believe it, i find it hard you may by your posts about the shrub, the chimp etc...

The documentary covers the entire year he campaigned to be President in 1999. It ends on his inaugaration night. At the very end, you get a quick glimpse of the current George.

 

[Stinger]

Kerry, imo, was explaining how the whole country was f****d, and how everybody did horrible sh!t, and he was there. So I guess according to your interpretation he called himself a murderer, rapist, puppy killing, making necklaces out of ears, war criminal too.

He stated himself he engaged in war crimes.

"KERRY: There are all kinds of atrocities, and I would have to say that, yes, yes, I committed the same kind of atrocities as thousands of other soldiers have committed in that I took part in shootings in free fire zones. I conducted harassment and interdiction fire. I used 50 calibre machine guns, which we were granted and ordered to use, which were our only weapon against people. I took part in search and destroy missions, in the burning of villages. All of this is contrary to the laws of warfare, all of this is contrary to the Geneva Conventions and all of this is ordered as a matter of written established policy by the government of the United States from the top down. And I believe that the men who designed these, the men who designed the free fire zone, the men who ordered us, the men who signed off the air raid strike areas, I think these men, by the letter of the law, the same letter of the law that tried Lieutenant Calley, are war criminals."

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1077677/posts

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

Well that may be true...but you would have to have proof of it.
Kind of a hard thing to prove. Seems to be a problem.

It is an interesting idea.

It is an opinion friend. Proof is not needed.

 

[Stinger]

They won't attack moveon for one reason...The democrats receives huge sums of money from them........

Did you hear Hillary stumbling and mumbling all around it desperately trying not to say anything bad about them?

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

Did you hear Hillary stumbling and mumbling all around it desperately trying not to say anything bad about them?

She won't bite the hand that feeds her.Remember Moveon.org was started to save her husbands ***.

 

[DeeJayH]

Galen may be right!

Have you seen that documentary "Journey's with George" by Alexandria Pelosi. It shows a much more human side to Bush than you've never seen before.

Impeach that nice guy
that nice guy is sending our children to die so his oil and defense contract buddies can get rich
that nice guy has lowered the worlds opinion of our nation to rock bottom
that nice guy has crushed the working class so he can give his rich buddies tax cuts
that nice guy.........do i really need to go on?

 

[Iriemon]

He stated himself he engaged in war crimes.

"KERRY: There are all kinds of atrocities, and I would have to say that, yes, yes, I committed the same kind of atrocities as thousands of other soldiers have committed in that I took part in shootings in free fire zones. I conducted harassment and interdiction fire. I used 50 calibre machine guns, which we were granted and ordered to use, which were our only weapon against people. I took part in search and destroy missions, in the burning of villages. All of this is contrary to the laws of warfare, all of this is contrary to the Geneva Conventions and all of this is ordered as a matter of written established policy by the government of the United States from the top down. And I believe that the men who designed these, the men who designed the free fire zone, the men who ordered us, the men who signed off the air raid strike areas, I think these men, by the letter of the law, the same letter of the law that tried Lieutenant Calley, are war criminals."

Kerry speaks about HIS War Crimes

This clearly illustrates where Kerry put the blame -- on the military leadership, not that guys out following orders. Unless the swift boat liars were the men who designed free fire zones and the like, clearly Kerry is not calling them murderers and war criminals, putting the lie to TOT's smear.