Should the 2A be repealed?

[VanceMack]

Disagree with part one. There is too much wrong with our current model.

Agree with part two.

The only thing wrong with the first part is that you object to violent criminals (especially black males) being held in prison for the rest of their lives and instead would rather they be released to continue to kill people in the black American communities. The prison system does not create violent criminals. making excuses for them and creating a revolving door for them exacerbates the problem.

 

[mrjurrs]

The only thing wrong with the first part is that you object to violent criminals (especially black males) being held in prison for the rest of their lives and instead would rather they be released to continue to kill people in the black American communities. The prison system does not create violent criminals. making excuses for them and creating a revolving door for them exacerbates the problem.

You don't know shite about what I object to.

 

[VanceMack]

You don't know shite about what I object to.

Sure I do. You already made that quite clear.

 

[mrjurrs]

Sure I do. You already made that quite clear.

Then less penetrates than I had previously imagined.

 

[VanceMack]

Then less penetrates than I had previously imagined.

Sure. You know...cuz....the current model...........

 

[Objective Voice]

can you find anything in Article One Section Eight where the federal government was given even the slightest amount of power to restrict what arms private citizens can own?

No, but truth be told America didn't have a gun problem, a suicide by gun problem, a drive-by with semi-automatic weapons problem, a mass shooting problem nor a school shooting problem in 1788 'cause you know "law abiding gun owners use weapons responsibly" really wasn't a problem back in the late 18th century...that is unless your name was Aaron Burr or Alexander Hamilton....you know...Ten Duel Commandments and all...

 

[Questerr]

The right to keep and bear ARMS obviously means it is about guns. What do militia use? GUNS.

Arms is a category that means weapons, of which firearms (guns) are a subcategory.

 

[mrdeltoid]

If no guns were manufactured by private companies for any kind of customer, only people who already own them could commit gun-related crimes.

True or false?

False.

 

[TurtleDude]

No, but truth be told America didn't have a gun problem, a suicide by gun problem, a drive-by with semi-automatic weapons problem, a mass shooting problem nor a school shooting problem in 1788 'cause you know "law abiding gun owners use weapons responsibly" really wasn't a problem back in the late 18th century...that is unless your name was Aaron Burr or Alexander Hamilton....you know...Ten Duel Commandments and all...

what exactly does that bit of nonsense mean?

 

[TurtleDude]

what is amusing is that those wanting to repeal it are invariably hard left (yes even one who dishonestly claims to be "very conservative"). yet many of them also claim the second does not protect an individual right. Their vote belies their collectivist analysis

 

[mrdeltoid]

Word salad. I don't have schemes, I have beliefs. I believe America would be a better country without guns.

If you want to get snarky, make sure you're correct first.
term, noun, a word or phrase used to describe a thing or to express a concept, especially in a particular kind of language or branch of study.

Whenever I dispute your “beliefs “, your rebuttal is “ word salad”. If we were a country without guns, how long do you think it would be, before we were invaded by China, or Russia?
Our problem isn’t any particular weapon. What we have is a cultural problem.

 

[danielpalos]

No, but truth be told America didn't have a gun problem, a suicide by gun problem, a drive-by with semi-automatic weapons problem, a mass shooting problem nor a school shooting problem in 1788 'cause you know "law abiding gun owners use weapons responsibly" really wasn't a problem back in the late 18th century...that is unless your name was Aaron Burr or Alexander Hamilton....you know...Ten Duel Commandments and all...

The defense and protection of the state and of the United States is an obligation of all persons within the state. The legislature shall provide for the discharge of this obligation and for the maintenance and regulation of an organized militia.

 

[TurtleDude]

Whenever I dispute your “beliefs “, your rebuttal is “ word salad”. If we were a country without guns, how long do you think it would be, before we were invaded by China, or Russia?
Our problem isn’t any particular weapon. What we have is a cultural problem.

White Americans don't have much of a different rate of gun violence and murder as white's living in European gun banning nations

 

[Patriotic Voter]

False.

Do you have any real solutions that would be extremely effective in keeping bad people away from guns?

 

[TurtleDude]

Do you have any real solutions that would be extremely effective in keeping bad people away from guns?

yeah, when they are in prison, it is really hard for them to get guns. If they have been shot by the citizens they tried to victimize, they are even less likely to get guns.

 

[mrdeltoid]

Word salad. I don't have schemes, I have beliefs. I believe America would be a better country without guns.

If you want to get snarky, make sure you're correct first.
term, noun, a word or phrase used to describe a thing or to express a concept, especially in a particular kind of language or branch of study.

BTW, “term” is a word with various definitions, “if” is a word used as a conjunction, the two aren’t used interchangeably.

 

[danielpalos]

Do you have any real solutions that would be extremely effective in keeping bad people away from guns?

The defense and protection of the state and of the United States is an obligation of all persons within the state. The legislature shall provide for the discharge of this obligation and for the maintenance and regulation of an organized militia.

 

[post]

No, but truth be told America didn't have a gun problem, a suicide by gun problem, a drive-by with semi-automatic weapons problem, a mass shooting problem nor a school shooting problem in 1788 'cause you know "law abiding gun owners use weapons responsibly" really wasn't a problem back in the late 18th century...that is unless your name was Aaron Burr or Alexander Hamilton....you know...Ten Duel Commandments and all...

Your "truth" is selective and supremacist, to say the least.

Without some appreciable number of those late 18th century firearms, how much of the "farming resources" enumerated below, do you expect would have simply remained in place for the rest of their days, in exchange for "three hots and a cot," and for most, long days of physical labor and occasionally being auctioned off?

Four states had more than 100,000 slaves in 1790: Virginia (292,627); South Carolina (107,094); Maryland (103,036); and North Carolina (100,572).Feb 13, 2013
1790 Census | National Geographic Society
"6. What percentage of Georgia's total population was enslaved in 1790?

1. • Answer
     
     35%
     This was calculated by dividing Georgia's slave population (29,264) by its total population (82,548)."
   • 
     
   • The census did not attempt to enumerate native Americans until 1900,
   • https://www.archives.gov/research/census/native-americans/1790-1930.html
   • 
     
   • How many firearms do you estimate the 1790 population of 3,100,000 devoted to attempting to
   • defend against and control the native American population?
   • 
     
   • You hint that American gun owners of 1788 were better people, better adjusted than contemporary folks in possession of firearms or..... what?
   • BTW, how many white females and non-land owning white males were to some extent, under control because of gun owners compared to if there has been few or no firearms?

 

[Sabre]

If the Second Amendment did not exist, violent people would only be able to injure others, not kill them. Also, no injuries would be life-threatening.

Guns kill people. Naked hands don't.

Wrong:

FBI report: In 2019, more people were killed by hands, fists, and feet than rifles​

It is hard to know the facts when mainstream media only tells the American people what they believe to be true. However, according to the FBI’s Uniform Crime Report (UCR) for 2019, nearly twice as many people were killed with “personal weapons” such as hands and firsts than with rifles of any kind.

FBI report: In 2019, more people were killed by hands, fists, and feet than rifles

It is hard to know the facts when mainstream media only tells the American people what they believe to be true....

www.lawenforcementtoday.com

 

[H B Lowrey]

I think it's kind of dumb and weird e.g. "people should have the right to own a device that imparts 700 joules of kinetic energy to a 50g object" in a world where we can hurt ourselves and others in so many other ways without needing a Constitutional amendment... but for the same reason I don't particularly think we need to remove it. I think our problem with gun violence is just a symptom of our problem with violence in general: we have a culture that accepts, tolerates and in some cases evangelizes violent behavior. Guns are just a simple electromechanical tool that, like cars plowing through crowds, gets used by violent people.

There it is.

 

[mrdeltoid]

Do you have any real solutions that would be extremely effective in keeping bad people away from guns?

Banning, or regulating any object or substance, never keeps “ bad people “ away from whatever we ban. As prohibition demonstrated , when you deprive people of things they desire, you create a black market, overseen by “bad people “. The feds beat their head against the wall busting bootleggers the whole time prohibition was in effect. They didn’t even put a dent in it.
A total gun ban would create a whole new criminal enterprise. Underground manufacturing operations, distribution, and smuggling rings would pop up everywhere. The gang wars over territory would make drug gang wars look like Sesame Street.
We can enforce the law, allow police to do their job, and actually Concentrate on prosecuting the criminals, instead of making it harder on law abiding gun owners. In NYC, re-enstating the undercover street crime unit would be a good start there.
But to really turn things around, bringing back respect and decency, teaching it to our kids in the home, would help greatly.

 

[H B Lowrey]

No, the Second Amendment is a very important right, and it should be preserved.
However, that said, it's in dire need of common sense regulation because it is unique among our many rights, in that it allows a member of society to dispense deadly force, and like any force of that nature and potential, there is widespread abuse and misuse.
Thus, regulation is indeed very necessary to, if nothing else, imprint upon society the need for commensurate responsibility and accountability.

But all healthy democracies MUST by needs HAVE something like the Second Amendment, and we're lucky that we HAVE it.
It must be regulated in order to preserve it, and the sound reasoning which brought it into existence in the first place.
If we do not, it's a cinch that whatever system of governance that comes into being by way OF USE of that Second Amendment will abolish it immediately.

And that is the kind of threat that could materialize from EITHER the political Left OR Right...authoritarianism from either end of the spectrum will not tolerate armed citizens,
they will only allow certain special groups deemed indispensible TO authoritarians to exercise that right thereafter.

"However, that said, it's in dire need of common sense regulation because it is unique among our many rights, in that it allows a member of society to dispense deadly force, and like any force of that nature and potential, there is widespread abuse and misuse."

No, the second says you can have guns. But hey, we had a land mass to clear of others and them slaves might get uppity at any moment. That "you can kill with them when you're afraid of someone", that shit came later. So you think this is a healthy democracy? We're steeped in violence and the ability to rationalize it to infinity. Americans wouldn't know who they were as a people without guns. As for authoritarianism, guns are so old school. Manage the economic system and the "information" the masses consume, and they'll welcome it.

 

[post]

Banning, or regulating any object or substance, never keeps “ bad people “ away from whatever we ban. As prohibition demonstrated , when you deprive people of things they desire, you create a black market, overseen by “bad people “. The feds beat their head against the wall busting bootleggers the whole time prohibition was in effect. They didn’t even put a dent in it.
A total gun ban would create a whole new criminal enterprise. Underground manufacturing operations, distribution, and smuggling rings would pop up everywhere. The gang wars over territory would make drug gang wars look like Sesame Street.
We can enforce the law, allow police to do their job, and actually Concentrate on prosecuting the criminals, instead of making it harder on law abiding gun owners. In NYC, re-enstating the undercover street crime unit would be a good start there.
But to really turn things around, bringing back respect and decency, teaching it to our kids in the home, would help greatly.

Except New York's 110 year history of strict firearms control is difficult to mesh with your opinions, especially considering the population of that state.

New York City and Its Gun Laws: How Strict Are They? | Guns of New York

Only in New York City, a rifle or shotgun permit costs $140 and is required before a purchase...

...and more recent, even greater restrictions...

NY SAFE Act - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

"However, that said, it's in dire need of common sense regulation because it is unique among our many rights, in that it allows a member of society to dispense deadly force, and like any force of that nature and potential, there is widespread abuse and misuse."

No, the second says you can have guns. But hey, we had a land mass to clear of others and them slaves might get uppity at any moment. That "you can kill with them when you're afraid of someone", that shit came later. So you think this is a healthy democracy? We're steeped in violence and the ability to rationalize it to infinity. Americans wouldn't know who they were as a people without guns. As for authoritarianism, guns are so old school. Manage the economic system and the "information" the masses consume, and they'll welcome it.

I didn't say we're a healthy democracy.
In fact, our democracy is on life support.

 

[H B Lowrey]

Banning, or regulating any object or substance, never keeps “ bad people “ away from whatever we ban. As prohibition demonstrated , when you deprive people of things they desire, you create a black market, overseen by “bad people “. The feds beat their head against the wall busting bootleggers the whole time prohibition was in effect. They didn’t even put a dent in it.
A total gun ban would create a whole new criminal enterprise. Underground manufacturing operations, distribution, and smuggling rings would pop up everywhere. The gang wars over territory would make drug gang wars look like Sesame Street.
We can enforce the law, allow police to do their job, and actually Concentrate on prosecuting the criminals, instead of making it harder on law abiding gun owners. In NYC, re-enstating the undercover street crime unit would be a good start there.
But to really turn things aroundHowever, that said, it's in dire need of common sense regulation because it is unique among our many rights, in that it allows a member of society to dispense deadly force, and like any force of that nature and potential, there is widespread abuse and misuse.would help greatly.

Well, it could have been at one point. But now we can go looking for trouble while armed, start some shit with someone unarmed, get scared, and kill them. That's a repeatedly successfully pursued legality. There's no respect or decency in that.

I wonder if those fixated upon the right of every gun to have an american owner might lead the way in their own behalf in

I didn't say we're a healthy democracy.
In fact, our democracy is on life support.

Yup. And guns don't help.