• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every persons position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Should news reports of police aggression include the psychological information?

Should news reports of police aggression include the psychological information?


  • Total voters
    6

Consistency

New member
Joined
Jul 12, 2012
Messages
45
Reaction score
7
Location
U.S.
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
There are many news reports of police officers who abuse their power by unjustifiably beating, tasing, shooting, or otherwise abusing people. But those news reports do not mention the psychological motive of those police officers. Their psychological motive is to assert dominance over their victims, so as to feel a sense of dominance over them. Disobedience to, fleeing from, or resisting the police officers violates their sense of dominance, which makes such sociopathic cops even more aggressive. Dominant chimpanzees are the same way. That desire for a sense of dominance, and its associated aggressive dominance-asserting behaviors, are ultimately caused by bad genetic alleles and neurological traits. If people are unaware of the psychological motive of police aggression, then the problem will never be fixed because no one will strike at its root, so it is imperative to include the psychological information.
 

Paleocon

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 21, 2013
Messages
13,309
Reaction score
1,307
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Conservative
There are many news reports of police officers who abuse their power by unjustifiably beating, tasing, shooting, or otherwise abusing people. But those news reports do not mention the psychological motive of those police officers. Their psychological motive is to assert dominance over their victims, so as to feel a sense of dominance over them. Disobedience to, fleeing from, or resisting the police officers violates their sense of dominance, which makes such sociopathic cops even more aggressive. Dominant chimpanzees are the same way. That desire for a sense of dominance, and its associated aggressive dominance-asserting behaviors, are ultimately caused by bad genetic alleles and neurological traits. If people are unaware of the psychological motive of police aggression, then the problem will never be fixed because no one will strike at its root, so it is imperative to include the psychological information.

There's no need for news reports of police action. Any review that needs to come can come from the legal superiors.
 

Consistency

New member
Joined
Jul 12, 2012
Messages
45
Reaction score
7
Location
U.S.
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
There's no need for news reports of police action. Any review that needs to come can come from the legal superiors.

In other words, the knowledge of the acts of abuse should be kept among the dominant alphas, lest the uppity betas in the general population judge the alphas, as if their status were equal to the alphas.
 

Paleocon

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 21, 2013
Messages
13,309
Reaction score
1,307
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Conservative
In other words, the knowledge of the acts of abuse should be kept among the dominant alphas, lest the uppity betas in the general population judge the alphas, as if their status were equal to the alphas.

I wouldn't use psychobabble terms like that, but basically.
 

Skeptic Bob

DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 6, 2014
Messages
16,626
Reaction score
19,488
Location
Texas
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Left
Reporters aren't psychiatrists.
 

Kal'Stang

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 10, 2009
Messages
42,744
Reaction score
22,569
Location
Bonners Ferry ID USA
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
There are many news reports of police officers who abuse their power by unjustifiably beating, tasing, shooting, or otherwise abusing people. But those news reports do not mention the psychological motive of those police officers. Their psychological motive is to assert dominance over their victims, so as to feel a sense of dominance over them. Disobedience to, fleeing from, or resisting the police officers violates their sense of dominance, which makes such sociopathic cops even more aggressive. Dominant chimpanzees are the same way. That desire for a sense of dominance, and its associated aggressive dominance-asserting behaviors, are ultimately caused by bad genetic alleles and neurological traits. If people are unaware of the psychological motive of police aggression, then the problem will never be fixed because no one will strike at its root, so it is imperative to include the psychological information.

All cops have an alpha trait so your suggestion is worthless. The position of being a cop is dependent on it.
 

Glen Contrarian

DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 21, 2013
Messages
17,688
Reaction score
8,046
Location
Bernie to the left of me, Hillary to the right, he
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Progressive
There are many news reports of police officers who abuse their power by unjustifiably beating, tasing, shooting, or otherwise abusing people. But those news reports do not mention the psychological motive of those police officers. Their psychological motive is to assert dominance over their victims, so as to feel a sense of dominance over them. Disobedience to, fleeing from, or resisting the police officers violates their sense of dominance, which makes such sociopathic cops even more aggressive. Dominant chimpanzees are the same way. That desire for a sense of dominance, and its associated aggressive dominance-asserting behaviors, are ultimately caused by bad genetic alleles and neurological traits. If people are unaware of the psychological motive of police aggression, then the problem will never be fixed because no one will strike at its root, so it is imperative to include the psychological information.

I vote no - not because bad cops don't need to be exposed, in real time, on viral video, but because psychological motives must be determined by psychologists or psychiatrists...and even then there's often a great deal of room for doubt. Better to leave such reports for the courtroom instead of TMZ.
 

Glen Contrarian

DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 21, 2013
Messages
17,688
Reaction score
8,046
Location
Bernie to the left of me, Hillary to the right, he
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Progressive
All cops have an alpha trait so your suggestion is worthless. The position of being a cop is dependent on it.

Wrong. I haven't been a cop in the civilian world, but I was the equivalent of patrol supervisor, then chief of police, and then acting legal officer in the Navy. Some do have alpha traits...and some of those are good anyway. But most of the ones with alpha traits were pains in the ass and more trouble than they were worth to Security. The best ones were the level-headed ones who were more concerned with getting the job done right the first time than with exerting their will over all and sundry.
 

OrphanSlug

A sinister place...
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 24, 2011
Messages
24,353
Reaction score
21,328
Location
Atlanta
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
There are many news reports of police officers who abuse their power by unjustifiably beating, tasing, shooting, or otherwise abusing people. But those news reports do not mention the psychological motive of those police officers. Their psychological motive is to assert dominance over their victims, so as to feel a sense of dominance over them. Disobedience to, fleeing from, or resisting the police officers violates their sense of dominance, which makes such sociopathic cops even more aggressive. Dominant chimpanzees are the same way. That desire for a sense of dominance, and its associated aggressive dominance-asserting behaviors, are ultimately caused by bad genetic alleles and neurological traits. If people are unaware of the psychological motive of police aggression, then the problem will never be fixed because no one will strike at its root, so it is imperative to include the psychological information.

Good luck enforcing this.
 

Kal'Stang

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 10, 2009
Messages
42,744
Reaction score
22,569
Location
Bonners Ferry ID USA
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Wrong. I haven't been a cop in the civilian world, but I was the equivalent of patrol supervisor, then chief of police, and then acting legal officer in the Navy. Some do have alpha traits...and some of those are good anyway. But most of the ones with alpha traits were pains in the ass and more trouble than they were worth to Security. The best ones were the level-headed ones who were more concerned with getting the job done right the first time than with exerting their will over all and sundry.

As with everything else in this world there are varying degree's. Doesn't mean that the alpha trait isn't in all cops just because they aren't "pains in the ass". ALL cops must assert their authority in any given situation where they believe a crime may be happening. In order to assert authority you MUST have an alpha trait. Some alpha's assert their authority wisely, some unwisely.
 

Consistency

New member
Joined
Jul 12, 2012
Messages
45
Reaction score
7
Location
U.S.
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
In order to assert authority you MUST have an alpha trait.

If you're talking about giving orders, then your statement is absurd. Anyone can give orders, regardless of their psychological traits.
 

faithful_servant

DP Veteran
Joined
May 18, 2006
Messages
12,533
Reaction score
5,659
Location
Beautiful Central Oregon
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Conservative
As with everything else in this world there are varying degree's. Doesn't mean that the alpha trait isn't in all cops just because they aren't "pains in the ass". ALL cops must assert their authority in any given situation where they believe a crime may be happening. In order to assert authority you MUST have an alpha trait. Some alpha's assert their authority wisely, some unwisely.

That's a false assumption. I can assert authority without having to be an Alpha by simply always recognizing that I am servant to the people and not their master. Asserting authority when done correctly is done without getting emotional. A great example was one of my supervisors. I watched him rip a guy up one side and down the other for making a mistake that was incredibly stupid and hurt the whole crew. He turned around after chewing him out and looked at me and winked. Afterwards, I asked him about it. He said that he wasn't mad, he just wanted to get his point across and in that place and time, acting angry was the best way to do that. Our LE officers generally take the same approach of projecting authority without getting emotionally involved.
 

Kal'Stang

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 10, 2009
Messages
42,744
Reaction score
22,569
Location
Bonners Ferry ID USA
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
If you're talking about giving orders, then your statement is absurd. Anyone can give orders, regardless of their psychological traits.

Part of being an Alpha is the willingness and ability to project dominance over others. That may include just ordering people to do something or it may include more such as physical confrontation. Both of which a cop MUST be able to do. If a person does not have the psychological profile of an alpha then they will make a very piss poor leader unless they can learn to be one, which can happen. Believe it or not, not EVERYONE can give orders effectively.
 

Kal'Stang

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 10, 2009
Messages
42,744
Reaction score
22,569
Location
Bonners Ferry ID USA
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
That's a false assumption. I can assert authority without having to be an Alpha by simply always recognizing that I am servant to the people and not their master. Asserting authority when done correctly is done without getting emotional. A great example was one of my supervisors. I watched him rip a guy up one side and down the other for making a mistake that was incredibly stupid and hurt the whole crew. He turned around after chewing him out and looked at me and winked. Afterwards, I asked him about it. He said that he wasn't mad, he just wanted to get his point across and in that place and time, acting angry was the best way to do that. Our LE officers generally take the same approach of projecting authority without getting emotionally involved.

Recognizing that you are a servant to the people and not their master does not mean that you do not have Alpha qualities. The example of your supervisor was actually a text book example of an alpha.... just not an alpha that you associate with the term "alpha". He projected dominance over another when the occasion warranted it which is what being an alpha is about. Projecting dominance. Being an alpha doesn't mean that you HAVE to get emotional or ARE emotional. Which is what I'm assuming that you take an Alpha to be from the bolded part. It simply means that you will assert your dominance when you see a reason to. For some that reason is thinner than a film of ice, for others its thicker than a 1ft titanium wall.
 

ajn678

DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 19, 2016
Messages
7,966
Reaction score
3,395
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
I wouldn't suggest that all cops have this "alpha characteristic". I would suggest many cops are actually not alpha and attempt to become a cop so that they can project an alpha like attitude because they are now armed. I actually knew a particular person in college who was extremely "beta". Yet, he became a cop because he wanted to get the gun and boss people around. Many cops, were picked on as kids, and went the route of law enforcement to get back at the actual "alpha" members of society.
 

faithful_servant

DP Veteran
Joined
May 18, 2006
Messages
12,533
Reaction score
5,659
Location
Beautiful Central Oregon
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Conservative
Recognizing that you are a servant to the people and not their master does not mean that you do not have Alpha qualities. The example of your supervisor was actually a text book example of an alpha.... just not an alpha that you associate with the term "alpha". He projected dominance over another when the occasion warranted it which is what being an alpha is about. Projecting dominance. Being an alpha doesn't mean that you HAVE to get emotional or ARE emotional. Which is what I'm assuming that you take an Alpha to be from the bolded part. It simply means that you will assert your dominance when you see a reason to. For some that reason is thinner than a film of ice, for others its thicker than a 1ft titanium wall.

Using Alpha tactics is not being an Alpha. A Beta can use the same tactics tot he same effect, they just do it deliberately, instead of instinctively. You are confusing behavior with nature... I'm pretty much a Beta, but I know how to use Alpha techniques to great effect.
 

Ikari

Moderator
DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 8, 2006
Messages
79,298
Reaction score
47,104
Location
Colorado
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Left
There's no need for news reports of police action. Any review that needs to come can come from the legal superiors.

Ahh the ol' "government will police itself" argument.

It won't. It never will. Not how government works. It requires the People to keep and in order to keep the Republic, the People need to be reasonably informed of it's actions and intent.
 

Paleocon

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 21, 2013
Messages
13,309
Reaction score
1,307
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Conservative
Ahh the ol' "government will police itself" argument.

It won't. It never will.

You seem to think you're arguing with me, but you're really just arguing with reality. If governments are incorrigibly evil, there's nothing to be done.

Any organization capable of punishing wayward state officials is government by definition.
 

Ikari

Moderator
DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 8, 2006
Messages
79,298
Reaction score
47,104
Location
Colorado
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Left
You seem to think you're arguing with me, but you're really just arguing with reality. If governments are incorrigibly evil, there's nothing to be done.

Any organization capable of punishing wayward state officials is government by definition.

That's why the People have to watch and control it. The founders warned us well on the dangers of government.

So while maybe "phycological profiles" or whatever are overboard, the acts themselves must be reported and the statistics too. The People must know the actions of government so that we may better control.it.
 

Paleocon

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 21, 2013
Messages
13,309
Reaction score
1,307
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Conservative
That's why the People have to watch and control it. The founders warned us well on the dangers of government.

So while maybe "phycological profiles" or whatever are overboard, the acts themselves must be reported and the statistics too. The People must know the actions of government so that we may better control.it.

Any organization capable of punishing wayward government officials (whether in the name of the people or otherwise) is part of government by definition. You don't seem to grasp this.
 

Ikari

Moderator
DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 8, 2006
Messages
79,298
Reaction score
47,104
Location
Colorado
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Left
Any organization capable of punishing wayward government officials (whether in the name of the people or otherwise) is part of government by definition. You don't seem to grasp this.

The People are not part of the government, they are the owners of the government. You don't seem to grasp this.
 

Paleocon

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 21, 2013
Messages
13,309
Reaction score
1,307
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Conservative
The People are not part of the government, they are the owners of the government. You don't seem to grasp this.

I don't grasp it because it's nonsense. Try giving orders to a policeman, and see how it works out for you.
 

Ikari

Moderator
DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 8, 2006
Messages
79,298
Reaction score
47,104
Location
Colorado
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Left
I don't grasp it because it's nonsense. Try giving orders to a policeman, and see how it works out for you.

This is why we need accurate reporting of police activities with proper numbers and statistics. That way we can vote out non-performers/enablers so that we can better control the government.
 

eohrnberger

Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 20, 2013
Messages
43,972
Reaction score
28,682
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
I vote no - not because bad cops don't need to be exposed, in real time, on viral video, but because psychological motives must be determined by psychologists or psychiatrists...and even then there's often a great deal of room for doubt. Better to leave such reports for the courtroom instead of TMZ.

I agree with you Glen.

As squishy and subjective as the inexact practice of psychology or psychiatry tends to be, there is peril in enabling that in cases of police aggression. Next thing you'll know, the 'micro-aggressions' and violations of the 'safe space' will be counted as well. :roll:
 

Glen Contrarian

DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 21, 2013
Messages
17,688
Reaction score
8,046
Location
Bernie to the left of me, Hillary to the right, he
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Progressive
As with everything else in this world there are varying degree's. Doesn't mean that the alpha trait isn't in all cops just because they aren't "pains in the ass". ALL cops must assert their authority in any given situation where they believe a crime may be happening. In order to assert authority you MUST have an alpha trait. Some alpha's assert their authority wisely, some unwisely.

Your bolded claim is absolutely wrong. If you had said that "having an alpha trait is a big help in asserting authority", I would have agreed with you...but to put it in terms of absolutes, you're flat wrong. I've known many a leader - and having that alpha trait does help a lot, but I've seen good leaders who were quite humble, too. As for myself, I've had to assert authority many, many times - and not always when I wanted to...but no one would ever mistake me for an alpha male - I don't like being the boss, never liked it...but I did it because I had to.

And that's the case with many a retired military man - and almost all military retirees have been in very real positions of leadership and have had to assert their authority on a daily basis. Yes, there are the ones who go take supervisory and leadership positions after they retire, because that's what they want, what they enjoy...but there are just as many military retirees who take junior worker-bee positions or just decide to go grow a garden, or travel, or volunteer to help others, who never really enjoyed imposing their will on others, and simply don't want to have to do that anymore.
 
Top Bottom