Should NATO Go Into Ukraine?

[Lord Tammerlain]

That 40 mile long caravan, does Ukraine not have an air force? missiles? A few missiles would all it would take to take out that caravan.

**** Russia, it may get to a point others get involved

The Ukrainian Airforce has been pretty much reduced to being ineffective

 

[gboisjo]

gboisjo said:


I agree, if NATO and the US had stood up to Russia ..most likely an invasion wouldn't have happened.

So what we do instead is aggravate Russia with sissy ass sanctions, its embarrassing.

Silly ass sanctions? The Russian stock market is closed and the ruble is worth about 1 cent each.

Countries like Russia and North Korea give little concern to there peoples suffering, they care about the dictatorship.

Something most Americans can't relate to, that is, until Trump came along. Sanctions didn't stop Iran and they won't
stop Russia.

 

[mrjurrs]

gboisjo said:


I agree, if NATO and the US had stood up to Russia ..most likely an invasion wouldn't have happened.

So what we do instead is aggravate Russia with sissy ass sanctions, its embarrassing.


Countries like Russia and North Korea give little concern to there peoples suffering, they care about the dictatorship.

Something most Americans can't relate to, that is, until Trump came along. Sanctions didn't stop Iran and they won't
stop Russia.

I don't disagree. But one of the best ways to stop megalomaniacs is to remove support in their sphere of influence.


The Ukrainians are brave, but they are fighting to keep what they have. These Russians are brave because they are risking everything they have.

 

[Indydave]

no nads

 

[ClaraD]

There is a difference between war and genocide.

Russia is currently committing an act of war, which is awful. But they are not committing genocide.

The two are different.

Difference Between War and Genocide

Both war and genocide involve death and destruction. They entail extreme violence, socio-economic devastation, and forced migration among others. Also, these unfortunate conflicts have been present in the earliest civilizations. Moreover, war may be used

www.differencebetween.net

They are involved in an illegal war that constitutes genocide. They are purposefully targeting civilians

 

[vegas giants]

At first, I was a no but I have changed my mind. I think NATO should go in, drive Russia back and get out. Russia is a serious world threat and Ukraine is unfairly bearing the brunt for all of Europe. It doesn't seem right to me to let this happen to the brave Ukrainian people but is their an appetite to defend them?

Are you willing to die for Ukraine?

 

[PeacefulWarrior]

No, not imo.

 

[vegas giants]

They are involved in an illegal war that constitutes genocide. They are purposefully targeting civilians

Would you be willing to fight at the front lines?

 

[PeacefulWarrior]

They are involved in an illegal war that constitutes genocide. They are purposefully targeting civilians

What did they do, like launch some Shock & Awe terror attacks or something? I dunno, just doesnt seem like something that should be my problem at this time.

 

[BirdinHand]

They are involved in an illegal war that constitutes genocide. They are purposefully targeting civilians

War does not equal genocide.

And I’m sorry for Ukraine, but they are not in NATO.

 

[ClaraD]

War does not equal genocide.

And I’m sorry for Ukraine, but they are not in NATO.

Genocide can occur during war. It doesn't matter that they weren't in NATO. They are a US ally and had applied in 2008 to become a member. The reason they had not yet been confirmed was Russia opposed it. Also, according to the World Court definition...and they are the ultimate authority on genocide. This is indeed genocide.

The 1948 Genocide Convention, drafted after the Holocaust, makes unlawful certain actions intended “to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group.” The world court has authority to interpret the treaty, which has more than 150 signatories including Russia, Ukraine and the U.S.

BTW, Ukraine has already filed a complaint

 

[vegas giants]

Genocide can occur during war. It doesn't matter that they weren't in NATO. They are a US ally and had applied in 2008 to become a member. The reason they had not yet been confirmed was Russia opposed it. Also, according to the World Court definition...and they are the ultimate authority on genocide. This is indeed genocide.

The 1948 Genocide Convention, drafted after the Holocaust, makes unlawful certain actions intended “to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group.” The world court has authority to interpret the treaty, which has more than 150 signatories including Russia, Ukraine and the U.S.

BTW, Ukraine has already filed a complaint

I dont care.


You go.


This is not our problem

 

[ClaraD]

I dont care.


You go.


This is not our problem

It's absolutely our problem.
Remember the saying
First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist.

Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.


Yeah, its absolutely our problem...Russia and Putin are a danger to the US and Europe

 

[ClaraD]

What did they do, like launch some Shock & Awe terror attacks or something? I dunno, just doesnt seem like something that should be my problem at this time.

The post I posted to Vegas also applies to you

 

[vegas giants]

It's absolutely our problem.
Remember the saying
First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist.

Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.


Yeah, its absolutely our problem...Russia and Putin are a danger to the US and Europe

What time do you ship out?


Are you personally willing to die defending Ukraine?

 

[ClaraD]

What time do you ship out?


Are you personally willing to die defending Ukraine?

Dude, if the US wants to call me up, I'll go. I'm 51 and have a history of asthma and cancer, but a 79 year old grandma is there...so, will you go?

 

[vegas giants]

Dude, if the US wants to call me up, I'll go. I'm 51 and have a history of asthma and cancer, but a 79 year old grandma is there...so, will you go?

Absolutely not. No Americans should die for Ukraine.. Send the UK, france Germany.


It's not our job

 

[ClaraD]

Absolutely not. No Americans should die for Ukraine.. Send the UK, france Germany.


It's not our job

Sorry, but its everyone's job. Russia isn't just a threat to the Ukraine.

 

[vegas giants]

Sorry, but its everyone's job. Russia isn't just a threat to the Ukraine.

It's easy to say when it won't be you or your kids going.

This is not the job of the US. Let europe handle this. I am tired of young American heroes dying in fights that dont make the us any safer. Let European parents lose their kids there

No American should die for Ukraine

We are not the worlds policemen

 

[Nilhus]

remember that appeasing Putin by excluding Ukraine from NATO didn't stop him from going in

You are spreading atrocious disinformation!

On the contrary, NATO refused to give a written "guarantee" to Russia that Ukraine would be barred from joining NATO, Zelensky continuously pressed for joining.

Moreover, there was NATO activity in Ukraine, from "exercises" to building infrastructure. It was clear that Ukraine was willing to work with NATO against Russia even without being a member of NATO.

 

[Lutherf]

You are spreading atrocious disinformation!

On the contrary, NATO refused to give a written "guarantee" to Russia that Ukraine would be barred from joining NATO, Zelensky continuously pressed for joining.

Moreover, there was NATO activity in Ukraine, from "exercises" to building infrastructure. It was clear that Ukraine was willing to work with NATO against Russia even without being a member of NATO.

Are you suggesting that concerns about "provoking" Russia by allowing NATO membership to Ukraine HAS NOT been the major sticking point? It's been a major sticking point for damned near 30 years now and is the PRIMARY reason for excluding Ukraine.

 

[Nilhus]

PRIMARY reason for excluding Ukraine.

Ukraine was NOT excluded!

NATO promises Ukraine, Georgia entry one day​

“We agreed today that these countries will become members of NATO,” NATO Secretary-General Jaap de Hoop Scheffer told a news conference, reading from a communique agreed at a summit of the pact’s 26 leaders in Bucharest.

Putin tells NATO to "be friends"

Russian President Vladimir Putin urged NATO to work towards compromise on disputes over enlargement, arms control and missile defence at a cordial farewell summit on Friday.

www.reuters.com

Ukraine crisis: US rejects Russian demand to bar Ukraine from Nato​

Published 27 January (2022)

Ukraine crisis: US rejects Russian demand to bar Ukraine from Nato

Russia says the response does not address its concerns about Nato, but "gives hope" over other issues.

www.bbc.com

In the meantime nato has been doing "exercises" and stealthily building bases in Ukraine(sort of getting Ukraine into nato without admitting so formally):

The United States plans to modernize Ukrainian naval bases and ship repair facilities in Mykolaiv region.
This will be the next stage of cooperation of the Navy of the Armed Forces of Ukraine with the United States after the completion of construction of the Maritime Operations Center in Ochakiv, the Ukrainian military portal reports.

"Naval bases, operations centers and ship repair facilities in Ochakiv and Mykolaiv at a distance less than 100 miles from Crimea enable NATO and the Naval Forces of the Ukrainian Armed Forces to conduct training and coordinate activities," the report says.

NATO, US ships able to enter Ochakiv port

The United States plans to modernize Ukrainian naval bases and ship repair facilities in Mykolaiv region. — Ukrinform.

www.ukrinform.net

"Among the priorities are the missile programme and the development of the fleet," Reznikov told parliament. "We are moving on to the practical stage of building two military bases - in Berdyansk and Ochakiv - and other contracts within the framework of agreements with the United Kingdom."

Large scale Russian offensive possible in January, Ukraine says

Russia has massed more than 94,000 troops near Ukraine's borders and may be gearing up for a large-scale military offensive at the end of January, Ukraine's defence minister told parliament on Friday, citing intelligence reports.

www.reuters.com

 

[joluoto]

The only reason Putin doesn't want his neighbors in NATO is that he can't invade them then.

 

[rickc]

If you don't stand up to a bully he will torment you till the end of your days

 

[rickc]

The only reason Putin doesn't want his neighbors in NATO is that he can't invade them then.

Not if we show him we are afraid of him.

What is to stop him if all he has to do is threaten to use his nukes and we back down.

Time to send him an ultimatum. Withdraw from Ukraine or we are going to make him leave.