George_Washington
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Kandahar said:No...Why should they? Governments should remain neutral on religious questions. Aside from that, only about half of Europeans believe in a god and even fewer are religious.
My guess is that the majority of European countries and European people are against such a reference. Religion, where it exists at all in Europe, is not generally paraded around on public display like it is in the United States.
George_Washington said:Back in 2003, Europe decided not to include any reference to God in the European Union Constitution. However, this decision came with opposition as the Roman Catholic Church and 20 other conservative representatives wanted a reference made. The reference would not have mentioned a specific religion but would have, as they had argued, been reference to a spiritual heritage.
You can read more about it here:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/836700/posts
So, do you think they should have included the reference? I am not a European but I think it would have been nice to have as a spiritual reference.
Kandahar said:No...Why should they? Governments should remain neutral on religious questions. Aside from that, only about half of Europeans believe in a god and even fewer are religious.
My guess is that the majority of European countries and European people are against such a reference. Religion, where it exists at all in Europe, is not generally paraded around on public display like it is in the United States.
George_Washington said:I know and I just think that's sad that Europe is losing its taste for religion.
George_Washington said:I know and I just think that's sad that Europe is losing its taste for religion.
hipsterdufus said:There's no talk of teaching Intelligent Design at schools in Europe.
Kandahar said:No...Why should they? Governments should remain neutral on religious questions. Aside from that, only about half of Europeans believe in a god and even fewer are religious.
My guess is that the majority of European countries and European people are against such a reference. Religion, where it exists at all in Europe, is not generally paraded around on public display like it is in the United States.
tr1414 said:Only half of Europeans believe in God & even fewer are religious?! Check out Italy, Spain & Poland for starters.
tr1414 said:What's wrong with God, what's wrong with trying to be a good person.
tr1414 said:We all need to have God in our lives.
tr1414 said:I don't know when the few non-belivers felt that they could bend the belivers to their will but I see it more & more. Does anyone think this is a good thing?
Kandahar said:Spain isn't that religious anymore.
Now check out every European country that is NOT Italy or Poland.
Because, of course, those are self-evidently the same thing...
Says you. I get along just fine without any god, and apparently lots of other people do too.
Yes, it's a good thing that minority rights are protected. But aside from that, it's not a "few non-believers bending the believers to their will." Nearly a majority of Europeans are agnostics or non-believers, and probably an even greater majority that are against referencing any god in the EU Constitution.
tr1414 said:I just love it when liberals are so WRONG. Here's a break down. You tell me if most of these people belive in God.
Greece 78% Catholic, Austria 73% Catholic, Belgium 75%, Catholic, Bulgaria 82% Christian, Croatia 87% Catholic, Cyprus 75% Greek Orthodox Catholic, Czech Rep. 26% Catholic, Denmark 95% Lutheren Christian, Finland 84% Lutheren Christian, France 83% Catholic, Georgia 83% Christian, Germany 34% Protestant,34% Catholic, Hungery 52% Catholic, Iceland 85% Lutheran, Ireland 88% Catholic, Italy 99% Catholic, Liechtenstein 76% Catholic, Luxembourg 87% Catholic, Malta 98% Catholic, Moldova 98% Easten Orthodox Christian, Monaco 90% Catholic, Netherlands 32% Catholic, 13% Duch Reformed Christian, Norway 86% Pentecostal Christian, Romania 87% Protestant Christian, Slovakia 69% Catholic, 10% Protestant Christian, Slovenia 58% Catholic, Spain 94% Catholic, Sweden 87% Lutheran Christian, Switzerland 42% Catholic, 35% Protestant Christian, United Kingdom 73% Christian, Turkey 99% Muslim.
Looks to me like most of these people belive in God. It's the people who don't belive that wants things to change for them. Kinda got that upside down huh?
tr1414 said:What's wrong with letting God into our lifes?
tr1414 said:What's wrong with trying to live life by His Laws? I'm sure the liberals will have something to say..... but we all know that it will only be against Christians in one form or another. Think about it.... you can hand out condoms in a school, have our kids read books like "Heather has two mommy's" Liberals want to protray being gay as normal. What's going on here is that they want to make the abnormal normal. We've had 40 years of liberalism & it DON'T WORK. I'm tired of seeing murders back out on the street after only a few years.
I'm sick of right being wrong & this is just the tip of the iceberg. Though the NEA, our tax dollars pay for crap that passess for "art", our students are thought by liberal teachers at liberal schools & we see it all in the liberal media.
tr1414 said:It's ok do disagree but the level of hate is way over the line.
tr1414 said:People want values. People want leadership. People want/need God in their lives.
Kandahar said:No. I don't know where you got those statistics, but identifying with a religion is NOT the same thing as being religious or believing in God. For example, a majority of Britons are "Anglicans," but do you honestly think that the majority of Britons are religious? A majority of Germans are "Lutherans," but do you really believe that a majority of Germans give a **** about Martin Luther? In many European countries, identifying with a church is the equivalent of identifying with a social group rather than with a religious belief.
tr1414 said:Only half of Europeans believe in God & even fewer are religious?! Check out Italy, Spain & Poland for starters. What's wrong with God, what's wrong with trying to be a good person. We all need to have God in our lives. That's one of the resons the head-choppers heat us so much, they see us as unGodley. I don't know when the few non-belivers felt that they could bend the belivers to their will but I see it more & more. Does anyone think this is a good thing?
tr1414 said:I just love it when liberals are so WRONG. Here's a break down. You tell me if most of these people belive in God.
Greece 78% Catholic, Austria 73% Catholic, Belgium 75%, Catholic, Bulgaria 82% Christian, Croatia 87% Catholic, Cyprus 75% Greek Orthodox Catholic, Czech Rep. 26% Catholic, Denmark 95% Lutheren Christian, Finland 84% Lutheren Christian, France 83% Catholic, Georgia 83% Christian, Germany 34% Protestant,34% Catholic, Hungery 52% Catholic, Iceland 85% Lutheran, Ireland 88% Catholic, Italy 99% Catholic, Liechtenstein 76% Catholic, Luxembourg 87% Catholic, Malta 98% Catholic, Moldova 98% Easten Orthodox Christian, Monaco 90% Catholic, Netherlands 32% Catholic, 13% Duch Reformed Christian, Norway 86% Pentecostal Christian, Romania 87% Protestant Christian, Slovakia 69% Catholic, 10% Protestant Christian, Slovenia 58% Catholic, Spain 94% Catholic, Sweden 87% Lutheran Christian, Switzerland 42% Catholic, 35% Protestant Christian, United Kingdom 73% Christian, Turkey 99% Muslim.
Looks to me like most of these people belive in God. It's the people who don't belive that wants things to change for them. Kinda got that upside down huh?
What's wrong with letting God into our lifes? What's wrong with trying to live life by His Laws? I'm sure the liberals will have something to say..... but we all know that it will only be against Christians in one form or another. Think about it.... you can hand out condoms in a school, have our kids read books like "Heather has two mommy's" Liberals want to protray being gay as normal. What's going on here is that they want to make the abnormal normal. We've had 40 years of liberalism & it DON'T WORK. I'm tired of seeing murders back out on the street after only a few years.
I'm sick of right being wrong & this is just the tip of the iceberg. Though the NEA, our tax dollars pay for crap that passess for "art", our students are thought by liberal teachers at liberal schools & we see it all in the liberal media. It's ok do disagree but the level of hate is way over the line.
As long as there are Ward Churchills among us the hate on the left will rise. They will be a black lash. People want values. People want leadership. People want/need God in their lives.
Kandahar said:Nothing, if that's your choice. But it's not the choice of lots of Europeans, and it certainly shouldn't be the choice of any government.
None of this has anything to do with the subject at hand, so you'll have to forgive me if I simply ignore it.
You're the only one on this thread (so far) who seems to be hate-filled and disrespectful of other religious views.
I think it has a lot to do with the topic. Think about it. Over the last 40 years or so have we all have gotten used to things that used to shock us. It was not so long ago that a man would wear a shirt & tie to a baseball game. Now we can see kids running around with tee shirts with sayings on them that used to make a salior blush. Ask yourself, are these good things? I say it all comes from a moral decline that starts with a lack of God. Why did it get to the point that we can't sing "God bless America" in school? We have the liberals & Johnson's so called "Great Socitey" to thank for that.
Of cause you would ignore the truth but what did I say that was hate-filled or disrespectful? Anyway, I see a big backlash coming. A hard turn to the right might be the only answer to the moral morass we find ourselfs in.
George_Washington said:Europe is more religious than a lot of liberals would like us all to believe. I've been to England and I've been to Saint Paul's Cathedral in London and it was jam packed when I was there.
George_Washington said:Not just with tourists but with people listening to mass.
George_Washington said:But anyway...here are the stats on religion:
http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html
You see there that roughly 86% of people in the world have religion in their lives.
George_Washington said:
George_Washington said:"People who specify atheism as their religious preference actually make up less than one-half of one percent of the population in many countries where much large numbers claim no religious preference, such as the United States (13.2% nonreligious according to ARIS study of 2001) and Australia (15% nonreligious)."
George_Washington said:And I think tr1414's stats are roughly accurate. Look at this:
http://www.nationmaster.com/country/gm/Religion
According to this site, 36% of the people are Protestant and 36% are Catholic. So much for your theory that Western Europe no longer believes in God. Actually most people who aren't religious are agnostic rather than atheist.
tr1414 said:Why did it get to the point that we can't sing "God bless America" in school?
Of cause you would ignore the truth...
tr1414 said:I think it has a lot to do with the topic. Think about it. Over the last 40 years or so have we all have gotten used to things that used to shock us. It was not so long ago that a man would wear a shirt & tie to a baseball game. Now we can see kids running around with tee shirts with sayings on them that used to make a salior blush. Ask yourself, are these good things?
tr1414 said:I say it all comes from a moral decline that starts with a lack of God. Why did it get to the point that we can't sing "God bless America" in school? We have the liberals & Johnson's so called "Great Socitey" to thank for that.
tr1414 said:Of cause you would ignore the truth but what did I say that was hate-filled or disrespectful?
tr1414 said:People want values. People want leadership. People want/need God in their lives.
Translation: "People who don't believe in God are bad people."tr1414 said:What's wrong with God, what's wrong with trying to be a good person.
TimmyBoy said:I see nothing wrong with a reference to God in the US constitution. The origins of freedom, in the historical context of the American point of view, does not come from the hand of government, but from the hand of God. Freedom is a right given by God, not a privelege that is given by the hand of government. However, the founding fathers were not necessarily Christian and some of them question the Chrisitian religion. God is something that is loosely defined and I think it is also important to maintain a seperation of Church and State. But the idea of freedom, comes from the notion that it is a right given by the hand of God and it is not some sort of privelege. I think by definition, evil is defined as an absence of God. Kind of like how cold is defined as an absence of heat.
Plain old me said:That maybe so, but I would say the issue is more that one might think evil is the absence of God, others may think it the absence of Elightenment, whilst other still may hink the absence of good side of the force. The Constitution had enough problems being passed, I think mentioning just one particular faith, however small, only adds to the problems people have with it.
TimmyBoy said:Well, to me, when you have the absence of God, their is no right or wrong. Anything goes. Everything is OK to do. Their is only emptiness and immorality.
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