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Should Dems move to the Right of Biden?

Should Dems move to the Right of Biden?

  • Total voters
    67
Manc Skipper said:
I voted for what I believe in by voting red Tory in preference to the Greens, who had little chance of beating the incumbent blue Tory. He's now gone and we've got a slightly less Tory Labour MP. Had I voted Green, the blue Tory might have held on, so I'm marginally better off.
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So it was you that swung it
 
JohnfrmClevelan said:
Kids have become much more accepting and understanding of gays, trans, etc. It is likely that these athletes have the general support of their teammates and classmates. It's completely different than when I was in school.
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They grow up with one another, so they get it. It's the armchair warriors who drive this issue.

The right-wing portays transgender girls as male brutes who are so maladapted that they're willing to act like a girl to win a trophy. But for the people involved, they're just the girl next door.

It's like there attitude towards undocumented immigrants, who they characterize as human trafficking, gang related freeloaders. But for the people involved, they're just the family next door.

The right-wing wants everyone in a rigidly classified hierarchy that involves more rules for everyone to follow and more government authority to enforce them. Talk about identity politics!
 
JohnfrmClevelan said:
That's your framing. Nobody wants to see men competing against women in sports, and it rarely happens anyway. You guys see trans-hulk athletes everywhere you look, or you think you do. We see a tiny number of kids who deserve the same rights and opportunities as all the other kids, and that includes participating in HS sports if they so choose.

As for kids getting treatment, Dems think that parents and doctors should be making those decisions, while you think that the government should make those decisions. Your "age of consent" argument is crap, though. Does that also apply to cochlear implants? Glasses? Vaccinations? Or does it just apply to those procedures that you, with your zero expertise, consider icky?

Like most conservative positions on wedge issues, ignorance is the basis of your beliefs. You are ignorant of the tiny number of trans athletes, you are ignorant of their tiny effects on HS sports (both negative and positive), and you are ignorant of what is in the minds and the pants of kids who may very well benefit from treatment, not all of which is surgical.

There is a significant number of kids who don't fall into the two rigid traditional gender categories. There always has been. And nobody is more aware of it than the kids themselves. It's their issue to deal with, not yours, and not the government's. Your position is far closer to that of some countries we consider backwards, where homosexuality is still illegal and women are routinely mutilated.

Finally, you have defined "far left" by wedge issues created by your Republican politicians, and not by "far left" policy issues, like universal healthcare and support for organized labor. Congratulations, you have been duped for your vote.
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Yes, it is a fad, and yes you support the fad.


Are you old enough to have supported the fad 10 or 15 years ago?
 
Gardener said:
Yes, it is a fad, and yes you support the fad.


Are you old enough to have supported the fad 10 or 15 years ago?
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One might say the increased suicide attempts and increased mental depression of transgenders are a fad because they are due to the repressive laws that are now a fad among right-wing legislatures.
 
JohnfrmClevelan said:
You need to read more. Here you go...

www.scientificamerican.com

The Forgotten History of the World's First Trans Clinic

The Institute for Sexual Research in Berlin would be a century old if it hadn’t fallen victim to Nazi ideology
www.scientificamerican.com www.scientificamerican.com
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I didn't say it didn't exist as something exceedingly rare. I said it had not been made into a fad.



Once again -- were you even sentient 10 or 15 years ago, and if so, why are you not willing to acknowledge the vast difference between its occurrence and promotion then vs. now?
 
Gardener said:
I didn't say it didn't exist as something exceedingly rare. I said it had not been made into a fad.



Once again -- were you even sentient 10 or 15 years ago, and if so, why are you not willing to acknowledge the vast difference between its occurrence and promotion then vs. now?
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15 years ago I had kids in school, and I found out how much progress had been made. Kids were far more accepting of others that were different. (Most people consider that a good thing.) Slow, steady progress, not a "fad." The only promotion of the subject was done by Republican politicians who were eager to create yet another wedge issue and pass some harmful laws that their idiot base ate right up. And they couldn't have done it without lies and gross exaggerations that you are so incredibly susceptible to believing.

I think my earlier statement - that your positions are driven by ignorance of the subjects at hand - has been pretty much proven by now.
 
JohnfrmClevelan said:
15 years ago I had kids in school, and I found out how much progress had been made. Kids were far more accepting of others that were different. (Most people consider that a good thing.) Slow, steady progress, not a "fad." The only promotion of the subject was done by Republican politicians who were eager to create yet another wedge issue and pass some harmful laws that their idiot base ate right up. And they couldn't have done it without lies and gross exaggerations that you are so incredibly susceptible to believing.

I think my earlier statement - that your positions are driven by ignorance of the subjects at hand - has been pretty much proven by now.
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I do not believe that you had joined the bandwagon 15 years ago.
 
Gimmesometruth said:
I havent kept up with ur content lately.
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"My" content? Are my posts here part of current political discourse? Well, there's the woman who claimed that Black people weren't going to pick cotton any more, and that this was why we need illegals, to be the new underclass to do shit jobs. But that wasn't a response to anything I said. :LOL:
 
JohnfrmClevelan said:
Describe some positions of these "far-left Dems."
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I just mentioned one to Gimme: the idea that the country ought to allow illegals to be the new underclass to do the dirty jobs, because supposedly no citizens will do them. Which is stupid because the point of illegals is that companies can underpay them because they're not capable of bringing legal action.:rolleyes:
 
Gardener said:
They only care about their ability to project their virtue to others who share their same brainwashed sociopathy.
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Did you come out as anti-trans before or after Republicans spent hundreds of millions in anti-trans messaging, because they have no policies to run on?
 
Gardener said:
Those who think men should be competing against women in sports and think that children much younger than the age of consent should have their genitals altered.
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Reversible puberty blockers are designed to avoid this so that people can make informed decisions.
 
lolbert said:
I think if Democrats want to win, they should embrace a moderate, third-way, Bill Clinton form of liberalism.
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Um, they have. That's been the model of the Democratic Party since the 1990s.

lolbert said:
If they went to the right on immigration, transgenderism, and guns, they would gain a lot of support. I think someone like former Virginia Senator Jim Webb is the ideal Democrat; that being said, I don't think they need to completely abandon the entire Democratic platform like your post suggests—they can keep the liberal stance on most other issues like civil rights and abortion and still win.
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You mean being... Republicans. At which point, it's a choice between Republican Lite and Republican Classic. Wow, diversity really is the spice of life.

FYI, the issues you mentioned are poll-tested Consulting Class Political Slop designed to protect corporate interests. Basically, let the peasants fight it out on these issues so that politicians don't focus on the fact that everyone is being ripped off.
 
Gimmesometruth said:
like voting for an ineffectual candidate that allowed Don to become POTUS.

Thanks again.
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I didn't vote in the presidential. And I represent one vote. Although I'm flattered that you think I have the ability to decide elections.
 
The Dems project weakness and frailty, and they aren't evolving. The Democratic leadership is literally old and dying, and yet they still cling to their seats in Congress (and in Biden's case, they clung to the presidency). Ginsburg clung to her judicial seat, too, when she could have given it up to someone younger and in better health.

I also think Republicans have made use of modern media (social media) better than the Dems. They're more comfortable appearing on podcasts and using social media. They appear more accessible and comfortable than Dems, who still seem to lean on traditional media (Sunday morning shows, interviews, etc).
 
JohnfrmClevelan said:
What does that even mean? One single vote seldom swings an election. But votes, collectively, do make a statement.
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I totally agree. Which is why Dems need to get the most votes with the best strategy. It's largely a mathematical equation. Whatever strategy they employ is going to sacrifice some voters for others. I propose an alliance between the Left and Center-Left. I feel this is sufficient to win most elections. Right-wing 'Moderates' like @Gatsby want to make an alliance with the Center and the Right-Wing. Which necessarily means sacrificing progressive voters.

In 2024, Dems felt that they could sideline progressive voters with a strong moral conscience and get right-wing voters. So that they could continue business as usual. The strategy failed. They were misled by a corrupt, self-serving political consulting class.

The strategy post-2024 is to blame progressives for the strategy that Gatsby Voters employed and lost against Trump twice with. And then continue on with the same strategy like nothing happened.

Um... it's a strategy.
 
rahl said:
Which I refuted. It’s not possible to predict the future.
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You didn't refute it, you merely contradicted it.

It would be painful to accept that your position causes young people harm. I understand your reluctance to come to terms with it.
 
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