Should consenting adults be able to do whatever they like too each other ?

[Jessie C]

The issue of consent is a tricky one as those in an abusive relationship will often "consent" to something when the fear involved for not consenting is too great.

DOESN'T make it right. That's why there needs to be distinct laws. Period.

 

[Gardener]

DOESN'T make it right. That's why there needs to be distinct laws. Period.

Thank you for completely misinterpreting what I said.

 

[Risky Thicket]

That's a silly question, of course they can. Things like this get out of hand. This isn't 50 Shades of Gray. I think once someone gets too hurt, the gloves come off and it goes from consentual to prosecutable assault. Boundaries! Or you may as well make it legal for people to push the limits and possibly kill each other as long as they both agree....

After graduate school I needed money. I got a weekend job as the sole bartender in a road house. In fact when I was working I was the only one working. It was a rough place. The guy I replaced was murdered one night. But the money was good.

One night a regular and his lady were drunk, as usual, and loud and angry. They started fighting, as usual.

I was proud of handing things myself and I never called police. Somehow 2 cops showed up just after the fight started. After the cops cuffed them and took them outside one cop came back in to ask what it was about. One biker sitting at the bar told the cop the guy and his girlfriend were into S&M, but they couldn’t afford the equipment.

Lawd! Back in the day Dixie used to be fun.

 

[Slavister]

• United States: Some states have legalized assisted suicide, including Oregon, Washington, Montana, Vermont, California, Colorado, Hawaii, New Jersey, Maine, and New Mexico

Thanks, did not know some states allow it.

 

[maquiscat]

What do you think? Is there a case to be made for overriding consent?

As a practitioner of BDSM (over 25 years active and over 15 years teaching), I can say that it is a very fine line to walk. It is one of the many reason why the most serious among us teach and preach about safety and consent and recognizing the difference between BDSM and abuse. On the one hand, there is a good goal in protecting people, both from others and themselves. But where is the line really? When we look at some of the dangerous things that we allow others to do, just for fun, you have to wonder. Skydiving, mountain climbing, deep sea diving. Heck we allow people to pummel on each other just for fun and entertainment (boxing, MMA, etc.)

So where do we draw the line? Or should there even be a line drawn? Maybe what we need is more of a guideline, something that we look into but don't automatically condemn. Signs of actual abuse do indeed need to be looked for. But some possible indications might not actually be from abuse. My husband at one point in his youth (marine brat) hit a growing spurt which of course cause him to have a lot of mishaps because his body kept changing faster than he was getting used to it. If he wasn't in the base hospital one week getting stitches, he was in the next week getting them out (this was around the 80's). Naturally when a child is in the ER frequently with injuries, Child Services are called in. He found out about it later, when his dad was transferred to another base. They elected to take their medical records themselves to the new base. So bored in the back seat, he spotted his medical record and decided to look through it. In it he found a letter from the doctor who frequently treated him to Child Services. The doctor noted that abused children are often withdrawn and sullen and reluctant to talk, where as he was curious and talkative and engaging. And then the doctor wrote (as best my husband recalls it), "No abuse child who, when asked how he broke his arm, says, 'I had just gotten my new skateboard and there was this really gnarly hill....'. It is in my professional medical opinion that this child is simply a klutz" and signed as a Navy medical corpsman. So my husband is a Navy certified klutz, and honestly is not much better today. Physical signs simply are not enough. And we've gotten even better at spotting the signs of abuse among many of our professionals.

But that still puts us in the quandary of what, even without abuse, should a person be allowed to do with themselves. As one person pointed out, assisted suicide for medical reasons used to be prohibited, but now we allow it in many areas. How much freedom should a person be allowed. We too often allow our own repulsions and disgust to dictate to others how they should be. If you look at history, at one point it was thought to be very immoral among the medical community to cut people open, even cadavers. Now surgery is common place. We can even be rather hypocritical about it. It's simply wrong for one man to beat up on another man, unless you put them in a ring and pay them. In all honesty, how is that any different than some BDSM plays, save that it is not done as a back and forth? Why am I allowed to consent to a person repeatedly punching me, but not them flogging me within my agreed upon limits?

My position on this is that there really cannot and should not be a black and white line. Consent should count for much, especially if abuse can be ruled out. Even in a case where something goes wrong, it doesn't have to be any different than when something goes wrong in other areas. This could range from similar to playing football in the backyard and when tackled the person broke their neck and died from a bad fall, to using a power tool and through carelessness you injure, maim or kill a person.