Should a student be punished for this?

[partier9]

For those of you who don't know I go to a private Catholic School, and I am in the 10th grade. Anyways we have to take a scripture course that lasts the entire year. Now it's not that bad and it is sometimes interesting. Right now we are at the fall of the Northern and Southern of Israel to Assyrians and Babylonians. And part of what we were talking about was similarities between our society toady and ancient Israel's society at its collapse. Anyways one of the scripture teachers is very negative about the US.

Anyways from the begging of the year she has apparently been very critical of the US, like she doesn't like it. Now I have no problem with that, she is entitled to her freedom of speech in this great country.:mrgreen:

Anyways when we were comparing the two societies of Today and ancient Israel she apparently went on a US bashing spree. Now a kid I know said these following lines " If you hate the US so much why don't you leave?" Now after these remarks he was punished with the following; a week of detention and he has to write an essay about why he is wrong for what he said.

Now the only justifiable reason I can see for this punishment is that he was disrespectful to a teacher. But that it isn't what the essay is about, it is about how bad the US is right now. So do you think this is a fair punishment.

 

[Real Korimyr #9]

A week's detention and an essay assignment sounds like a proper punishment for disrespecting a teacher in front of the class.

And as much as it sounds as though your teacher is biased against the United States, I would say that your classmate does need to spend some time examining and considering this country's flaws, if only to develop a better understanding of how to serve his country beyond telling people who are critical to "love it or leave it".

 

[DarkWizard12]

Tell your classmate to do what I do when it seems like teachers are crazy: smile and nod, smile and nod. Your teacher may say the stupidest things in the world but, just smile and nod and you will always be on their good side.

Too late for your classmate, it seems like. My prescription: do your time, say your sorry, and offer her a box of hoe-hoes. All will be forgiven.

 

[jfuh]

I'm curious in to just how she was "bashing" the US - what was it that she said that led to your classmate's outbreak?

 

[SWM]

I'm curious in to just how she was "bashing" the US - what was it that she said that led to your classmate's outbreak?

Yeah...one man's bashing is another man's civil skepticism, depending on how one might feel about the topic at hand. I feel it's out of my place to make a judgment considering.

 

[jfuh]

Yeah...one man's bashing is another man's civil skepticism, depending on how one might feel about the topic at hand. I feel it's out of my place to make a judgment considering.

Exactly why I've withheld any judgement until we get some clarification on exactly what was said that would be seen as "US bashing".

 

[BlueKC]

It's a private school, the parents pay them to educate their son. If the parents, who surely have the right to have their child educated in whatever environment they want, have a problem with a decision of an institution that they pay, they can feel free to file for grievance with said institution. Full students rights need only be guaranteed to students who attend public school.

 

[Oftencold]

For those of you who don't know I go to a private Catholic School, and I am in the 10th grade. Anyways we have to take a scripture course that lasts the entire year. Now it's not that bad and it is sometimes interesting. Right now we are at the fall of the Northern and Southern of Israel to Assyrians and Babylonians. And part of what we were talking about was similarities between our society toady and ancient Israel's society at its collapse. Anyways one of the scripture teachers is very negative about the US.

Anyways from the begging of the year she has apparently been very critical of the US, like she doesn't like it. Now I have no problem with that, she is entitled to her freedom of speech in this great country.:mrgreen:

Anyways when we were comparing the two societies of Today and ancient Israel she apparently went on a US bashing spree. Now a kid I know said these following lines " If you hate the US so much why don't you leave?" Now after these remarks he was punished with the following; a week of detention and he has to write an essay about why he is wrong for what he said.

Now the only justifiable reason I can see for this punishment is that he was disrespectful to a teacher. But that it isn't what the essay is about, it is about how bad the US is right now. So do you think this is a fair punishment.

The punishment seems pretty bizarre to me, and if I were the boy's parent, I think I would object vociferously.

If this boy is a friend of yours, you might try to help him get some value out of the experience a a demonstration of a tyrannical exercise of power.

You did not describe the tone of the fellows outburst. I might hold with him receiving a small punishment for disrespect, although unless it was a disruptive outburst, I'd have probably let it pass were I the teacher.

I commend you for becoming interested in political issues at a young age, by the way.

 

[ludahai]

Anyways when we were comparing the two societies of Today and ancient Israel she apparently went on a US bashing spree. Now a kid I know said these following lines " If you hate the US so much why don't you leave?" Now after these remarks he was punished with the following; a week of detention and he has to write an essay about why he is wrong for what he said.

Now the only justifiable reason I can see for this punishment is that he was disrespectful to a teacher. But that it isn't what the essay is about, it is about how bad the US is right now. So do you think this is a fair punishment.

While I agree with the sentiments expressed, it was not done in the proper way or forum. Discussing it in class and coming up with counter examples would have been better, then talk with the teacher one-on-one AFTER class rather than challenging her position as a teacher in the class. Better, talk to a trusted teacher or the headmaster about the teacher would have been a good response as well. I simply can not accept that kind of statement from a student in the middle of class, no matter how much that teacher deserved it.

 

[Tucker Case]

If the kid has a ball in his sack and he stands by what he said, then he should write his essay about how he WASN'T wrong for sayin git.

I was perhaps the worsdt student for this type of **** when I went to school. I was involved in similar outbursts of disrespect with teacher, sometimes far more eggregious, and I would stand by them.

If you stand for what ytou believe, sometimes you must accept the consequences for those beliefs.

If this kid feels that the teacher needs to be put in her place on an issue, he should stick to it.

And he should accept the consequences that that stance brigns with pride.

 

[partier9]

These are some of the outbursts that I am aware of are and other things she has done.

She has bashed health care, the goverment overall, unequall wealth distipution, and the US military. Now parts of that I understand where she is coming from and somewhat agree but here is the problem. She talks about how great Germany and France are in comparisent to us. She talks about how she wished that our goverment was more like theirs and stuff like that.

Also, this one I haven't confirmed but to be as accurate as what was posted above. (What I first posted is true and I know it is due to, friends of mine telling me the same stories after her classes, and my scripture teacher telling us that the other scipture teacher was biased.)

Right before the election she, from what I was told, went on a Repuplican bashing spree. She insulted McCain and said that basically Repuplicans suck. Of course the class she told this to happen to feature many young conservatives.

Now for more specifics I'll have to ask some of my friends later on this week.

 

[Tucker Case]

These are some of the outbursts that I am aware of are and other things she has done.

She has bashed health care, the goverment overall, unequall wealth distipution, and the US military. Now parts of that I understand where she is coming from and somewhat agree but here is the problem. She talks about how great Germany and France are in comparisent to us. She talks about how she wished that our goverment was more like theirs and stuff like that.

Also, this one I haven't confirmed but to be as accurate as what was posted above. (What I first posted is true and I know it is due to, friends of mine telling me the same stories after her classes, and my scripture teacher telling us that the other scipture teacher was biased.)

Right before the election she, from what I was told, went on a Repuplican bashing spree. She insulted McCain and said that basically Repuplicans suck. Of course the class she told this to happen to feature many young conservatives.

Now for more specifics I'll have to ask some of my friends later on this week.

He shouldn't have said love it or leave it, he should have said "And just what exactly does your opinion of our nation and the republican party have to do with Scripture? Were the Sodomites republican? Was David an American? Did Jesus speak about Universal healthcare? Do you have any educational material to share, ort do you just have your opinions"

That's pretty much what I would have said in that class when I went to school and I said similar things to teachers when I was in school.

 

[Eko Ren]

I agree with jfuh. We need more clarification as to what was "US bashing".

 

[WI Crippler]

It doesn't matter if its fair or not. Fairness is only dictated by the grace of those in charge, or with power. Your friend, being a student, is not in any such position and must therefore, pay for anything he says that is contrary to what the authority figure says. If he thinks its worth it, and truly believes in his "cause", he has to be willing to accept the consequences of his actions against the authority in charge. Who is right, and who is wrong actually moot point here.

 

[Zyphlin]

For those of you who don't know I go to a private Catholic School, and I am in the 10th grade. Anyways we have to take a scripture course that lasts the entire year. Now it's not that bad and it is sometimes interesting. Right now we are at the fall of the Northern and Southern of Israel to Assyrians and Babylonians. And part of what we were talking about was similarities between our society toady and ancient Israel's society at its collapse. Anyways one of the scripture teachers is very negative about the US.

Anyways from the begging of the year she has apparently been very critical of the US, like she doesn't like it. Now I have no problem with that, she is entitled to her freedom of speech in this great country.:mrgreen:

Anyways when we were comparing the two societies of Today and ancient Israel she apparently went on a US bashing spree. Now a kid I know said these following lines " If you hate the US so much why don't you leave?" Now after these remarks he was punished with the following; a week of detention and he has to write an essay about why he is wrong for what he said.

Now the only justifiable reason I can see for this punishment is that he was disrespectful to a teacher. But that it isn't what the essay is about, it is about how bad the US is right now. So do you think this is a fair punishment.

I agree with WI and some others, "fair", doesn't matter here.

I also agree with Tucker, if the student is firm in his belief take that paper and do the exact opposite of the (in my opinion) idiotic punishment of writing "what is wrong with America". I'd say write the paper on the fact that the freedoms of this country allow this woman to work in a private institution of learning, based upon a religion, where they are free to say such negative things about the country the live on and likewise he is free to express himself as well.

I don't disagree with a punishment for utter disrespect to the teacher; if you disagree with what a teacher says do it civily. I had a teacher once in college going on and on about republican stereotypes and I spoke up, challenged him, and essentially called him out on it...but I did it civily and factually and in the end I think I gained some respect from the guy. This student didn't, he acted like an ass and was punished.

However, I think the punishment is idiotic if he has to write a paper about why America is bad. That shows he isn't being punished for being disrespectful, he's being punished for having a different opinion. THAT is wrong in my opinion.

However, ultimately, its a private school and he's the student. If he has an issue with it speak to his parents, and have the parents speak to the school. In the end the school, and thus the teacher, are employee's of a sort of the parents. If they don't like it, speak up.

 

[Vader]

For those of you who don't know I go to a private Catholic School, and I am in the 10th grade. Anyways we have to take a scripture course that lasts the entire year. Now it's not that bad and it is sometimes interesting. Right now we are at the fall of the Northern and Southern of Israel to Assyrians and Babylonians. And part of what we were talking about was similarities between our society toady and ancient Israel's society at its collapse. Anyways one of the scripture teachers is very negative about the US.

Anyways from the begging of the year she has apparently been very critical of the US, like she doesn't like it. Now I have no problem with that, she is entitled to her freedom of speech in this great country.:mrgreen:

Anyways when we were comparing the two societies of Today and ancient Israel she apparently went on a US bashing spree. Now a kid I know said these following lines " If you hate the US so much why don't you leave?" Now after these remarks he was punished with the following; a week of detention and he has to write an essay about why he is wrong for what he said.

Now the only justifiable reason I can see for this punishment is that he was disrespectful to a teacher. But that it isn't what the essay is about, it is about how bad the US is right now. So do you think this is a fair punishment.

Tell you friend he needs to contact the school principal and demand a full scale investigation. A week of detention over a small comment such as that seems a little harsh to me.

Bare in mind that I went to a catholic high school for a year --- and the nuns were allowed to hit the students in those days -- and I have never punished that harshly for anything I said.

It seems that particular teacher needs to told to keep her political views to her/himself.

A classroom is not the place of country bashing or other political speech. The school has a duty to address this issue and your friend needs to make certain that his situation is addressed.

 

[Vader]

It doesn't matter if its fair or not. Fairness is only dictated by the grace of those in charge, or with power. Your friend, being a student, is not in any such position and must therefore, pay for anything he says that is contrary to what the authority figure says. If he thinks its worth it, and truly believes in his "cause", he has to be willing to accept the consequences of his actions against the authority in charge. Who is right, and who is wrong actually moot point here.

I disagree.

The punishment was fit the crime. Clearly the student is being punished for having a different opinion ... not for speaking out. This is wrong and the teacher needs to be sanctioned for it.

I would contact the licensing authority in the state and file a formal complaint against that instructor.

 

[Voidwar]

A week's detention and an essay assignment sounds like a proper punishment for disrespecting a teacher in front of the class.

How was his comment disrespectful ?
Seems like a common sense question to me.
If you're busy disrespecting the kid's country, and he asks you why you remain when its so bad, I don't see any disrespect on the kids part.

 

[Lightdemon]

How was his comment disrespectful ?
Seems like a common sense question to me.
If you're busy disrespecting the kid's country, and he asks you why you remain when its so bad, I don't see any disrespect on the kids part.

It was presumptuous for the student to imply that their teacher does not love this country just because he/she is critical of this country. Both on the right and left side of the spectrum are people that are VERY vocal about their criticisms of this country, do none of them love this country?

It was not a common sense question, it was an ignorant one.

 

[new coup for you]

I am so glad I'm out of school.

 

[Real Korimyr #9]

How was his comment disrespectful ?
Seems like a common sense question to me.
If you're busy disrespecting the kid's country, and he asks you why you remain when its so bad, I don't see any disrespect on the kids part.

Well, first and foremost, it is dismissive of what the teacher likely views as valid criticism of American policy. It reduces what should be a serious discussion about how the American government should conduct itself to "flag pin or GTFO" and assumes that anyone criticizing the government is disloyal.

 

[Tucker Case]

Well, first and foremost, it is dismissive of what the teacher likely views as valid criticism of American policy. It reduces what should be a serious discussion about how the American government should conduct itself to "flag pin or GTFO" and assumes that anyone criticizing the government is disloyal.

TO be fair, the teacher is teaching scripture, so she is doing a disservice to the students by spewing her opinion in the classroom.

Regardless of what her views are, the classroom is not the place for her to give them. It is not educational in the least, especially given the subject matter.

Lets look at this for what it is: A teacher gives her opinion about things completely unrelated to the subject she is supposed to be teaching. A student proffesses a negative opinion of her opinion which is not related to the subject at hand. Teh person in the wrong is 100% the teacher for not doing her job.

If I was her employer, and this were brought to my attention I would give her a warning that continued use of school time to discuss non-educational topics will result in her firing.

Simple as that. She is not doing her job if she is talking about US politics in a scripture class.

 

[Jerry]

For those of you who don't know I go to a private Catholic School, and I am in the 10th grade. Anyways we have to take a scripture course that lasts the entire year. Now it's not that bad and it is sometimes interesting. Right now we are at the fall of the Northern and Southern of Israel to Assyrians and Babylonians. And part of what we were talking about was similarities between our society toady and ancient Israel's society at its collapse. Anyways one of the scripture teachers is very negative about the US.

Anyways from the begging of the year she has apparently been very critical of the US, like she doesn't like it. Now I have no problem with that, she is entitled to her freedom of speech in this great country.:mrgreen:

Anyways when we were comparing the two societies of Today and ancient Israel she apparently went on a US bashing spree. Now a kid I know said these following lines " If you hate the US so much why don't you leave?" Now after these remarks he was punished with the following; a week of detention and he has to write an essay about why he is wrong for what he said.

Now the only justifiable reason I can see for this punishment is that he was disrespectful to a teacher. But that it isn't what the essay is about, it is about how bad the US is right now. So do you think this is a fair punishment.

There's arguing a valid point and there's showing your instructor respect in public.

Being right does not justify disrespect.

 

[Jerry]

TO be fair, the teacher is teaching scripture, so she is doing a disservice to the students by spewing her opinion in the classroom.

Regardless of what her views are, the classroom is not the place for her to give them. It is not educational in the least, especially given the subject matter.

Lets look at this for what it is: A teacher gives her opinion about things completely unrelated to the subject she is supposed to be teaching. A student proffesses a negative opinion of her opinion which is not related to the subject at hand. Teh person in the wrong is 100% the teacher for not doing her job.

If I was her employer, and this were brought to my attention I would give her a warning that continued use of school time to discuss non-educational topics will result in her firing.

Simple as that. She is not doing her job if she is talking about US politics in a scripture class.

To be fair, it's a private school, so there's no expectation of objectivity.

They can say or do pretty much whatever they please above and beyone the state minimum acidemic criteria.

 

[Tucker Case]

To be fair, it's a private school, so there's no expectation of objectivity.

They can say or do pretty much whatever they please above and beyone the state minimum acidemic criteria.

True, they can, but the school would still determine what is or is not correct behavior for the teacher.

If the school is OK with her sharing her opinions in lieu of scriptrue, then she is not wrong.
If it were my child, I'd complain to her boss that she is doing this when I am paying for a religious education, not anti-American propeganda.



P.S. Ironically, what we have here is an Atheist bitching that a student was not being taught scripture in school. Good times! :mrgreen: