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Shots fired on Michigan State University campus; police ask everyone to shelter in place

ttwtt78640 said:
The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.
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It's not a 2a violation to regulate guns. Also, no right granted by the constitution is absolute.

We don't need to form citizen militias out of crazy violent criminals for instance, it's not what the amendment meant to accomplish.
 
snakestretcher said:
How about securing your home better? Get a noisy dog? Security lighting? Too radical?
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We have an alarm system with 10 cameras, lots of motion-sensitive lights front and back, 2 Cane Corsos that you definitely don't want to come across if you aren't family, AND guns.
 
vegas giants said:
I guess he was lucky to have so many to choose from on the last day of his life
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Well Vegas, for about 40 years after his return from Vietnam he found relief from his past in pursuing elk in the mountains of Colorado, whitetail deer virtually in his backyard, and fish in the rivers. He was always supremely physically fit, and moved through the woods like a ghost. Wherever the people were few, was where he wanted to be. The last couple years of his life, he was struck by debilitating illness, and couldn't pursue those activities that had formerly brought him solace. He held on though, out of pure stubbornness, refusing to allow his demons to win until he was down to a handful of sunrises. Then he checked out on his own terms.

He was a father figure to me and a brother in several senses of the term. Whatever his luck might have been I count myself lucky to have known him.

**** your flippant trolling shit.
 
Variant said:
Yes, I want guns regulated as much or more than I want cars regulated. The reason we regulate cars is because driving is inherently dangerous and the aim is to lower the danger which to anyone with two brain cells to rub together is effective. We're actually quite bad at this too world wide, so, it's not like we couldn't work on this issue as well. Our traffic laws are pretty permissive overall when compared to other countries.
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do you own guns?

Variant said:
I think the regulations on cars are doing a good job at reducing needless deaths, we could do with more of them in fact if the statistics are to be believed, the mostly unregulated gun market is also making us one of the worst in the world for gun crimes.
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wow

Car crash statistics
  • An estimated 42,915 people died in car crashes in 2021, a 10.5% increase from 2020. (National Highway Traffic Safety Administration)
  • Approximately 4.8 million people were seriously injured in automobile collisions in 2020. (National Safety Council)
  • The estimated total cost of car crashes in 2020 was $474 billion. (NSC)
  • The average economic cost (including wage losses, medical expenses, administrative expenses, motor vehicle damage and employers’ uninsured costs) for a fatal car accident was $1,750,000 and $101,000 for a disabling injury in 2020. (NSC)
  • In 2020, crash fatalities were 62% passenger vehicle occupants, 17% pedestrians, 14% motorcyclists, 2% bicyclists, and 2% large truck occupants. (Insurance Institute for Highway Safety)
  • In 23% of fatalities in passenger vehicles, the occupants were ejected from the vehicle. (NHTSA)
  • In 2020, 2,564 fatalities resulted from hit-and-run crashes. (NHTSA)

we're doing awesome - you want guns regulated so we can have the above results of such a great job ?

I mean RIGHT NOW with the common sense gun laws we have , there are far far less deaths and damages ...........the numbers are crystal clear

now I agree the deaths are not homicides like a mass murder, but that's not comforting at all to a family who just lost 2 or 3 members or young children with auto wrecks is it?



we accept all those deaths because people want their cars - and common sense driving laws people STILL choose to break the laws, do things with their cars they're not supposed to and the results are death. we're all ok with that too, aren't we? the list above is real - and nobody here says anything about all those deaths/damages because its not on CNN or Twitter and its just collateral damage

isn't that the truth ? and sure, we all wish people would drive safer but if they don't nobody calls for stacks and stacks of more laws do they ?
 
Chillfolks said:
On average a gun is stolen every 90 seconds in the US while a car is stolen every 36 seconds. Let’s hope we don’t see gun theft’s mirror the harder to get away with car numbers
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gun owners are victims

do this steal a gun, 30 years in prison mandatory ......... that'll stop that in a hurry. You in ?
 
Chillfolks said:
On average a gun is stolen every 90 seconds in the US while a car is stolen every 36 seconds. Let’s hope we don’t see gun theft’s mirror the harder to get away with car numbers
Click to expand...

did you read that report ? its a very limited poll, assumptions, guesses etc to get that number
 
Variant said:
Yes, I want guns regulated as much or more than I want cars regulated. The reason we regulate cars is because driving is inherently dangerous and the aim is to lower the danger which to anyone with two brain cells to rub together is effective. We're actually quite bad at this too world wide, so, it's not like we couldn't work on this issue as well. Our traffic laws are pretty permissive overall when compared to other countries.

I think the regulations on cars are doing a good job at reducing needless deaths, we could do with more of them in fact if the statistics are to be believed, the mostly unregulated gun market is also making us one of the worst in the world for gun crimes.
Click to expand...

Obtaining a gun legally is more highly regulated than obtaining a motor vehicle.

We could reduce traffic fatalities to virtually nil, with a few common sense regulations like limiting the top speed of vehicles to 30 mph and requiring safety equipment of the type used in NASCAR. Whattya think?
 
stealthycat said:
why doesn't that stop people from committing violence? nobody has answered that question and I've asked it several times
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It stops no one? Are you serious? Lol


The is like saying why doesn't speeding laws stop no one from speeding? Lol
 
vegas giants said:
It stops no one? Are you serious? Lol


The is like saying why doesn't speeding laws stop no one from speeding? Lol
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Because it's a slap on the wrist, if it's enforced at all. Stupid argument.
 
vegas giants said:
I accept your concession
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Again, you show your inability or refusal to follow a conversation.

Would you drive 60 in a 55 if the penalty was to forfeit your vehicle, your license and a mandatory 10,000 dollar fine?
 
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stealthycat said:
do you own guns?
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1 gun and 1 car.


stealthycat said:
wow

Car crash statistics
  • An estimated 42,915 people died in car crashes in 2021, a 10.5% increase from 2020. (National Highway Traffic Safety Administration)
  • Approximately 4.8 million people were seriously injured in automobile collisions in 2020. (National Safety Council)
  • The estimated total cost of car crashes in 2020 was $474 billion. (NSC)
  • The average economic cost (including wage losses, medical expenses, administrative expenses, motor vehicle damage and employers’ uninsured costs) for a fatal car accident was $1,750,000 and $101,000 for a disabling injury in 2020. (NSC)
  • In 2020, crash fatalities were 62% passenger vehicle occupants, 17% pedestrians, 14% motorcyclists, 2% bicyclists, and 2% large truck occupants. (Insurance Institute for Highway Safety)
  • In 23% of fatalities in passenger vehicles, the occupants were ejected from the vehicle. (NHTSA)
  • In 2020, 2,564 fatalities resulted from hit-and-run crashes. (NHTSA)

we're doing awesome - you want guns regulated so we can have the above results of such a great job ?
Click to expand...

I think the laws we have are reducing the number of deaths yes.

Also I think that If we modeled ourselves over the countries that do better we would have better statistics.

Which is the point, regulation helps prevent car deaths, we know this based upon the real world evidence.

stealthycat said:
I mean RIGHT NOW with the common sense gun laws we have , there are far far less deaths and damages ...........the numbers are crystal clear

now I agree the deaths are not homicides like a mass murder, but that's not comforting at all to a family who just lost 2 or 3 members or young children with auto wrecks is it?

we accept all those deaths because people want their cars - and common sense driving laws people STILL choose to break the laws, do things with their cars they're not supposed to and the results are death. we're all ok with that too, aren't we? the list above is real - and nobody here says anything about all those deaths/damages because its not on CNN or Twitter and its just collateral damage

isn't that the truth ? and sure, we all wish people would drive safer but if they don't nobody calls for stacks and stacks of more laws do they ?
Click to expand...

We regulate car ownership and driving because we want fewer deaths, the same is true of guns.

The fact that we are a more tolerant society of irresponsibility that leads to deaths is also clear from the statistics, but that is what you are arguing for.
 
Variant said:
1 gun and 1 car.




I think the laws we have are reducing the number of deaths yes.

Also I think that If we modeled ourselves over the countries that do better we would have better statistics.

Which is the point, regulation helps prevent car deaths, we know this based upon the real world evidence.



We regulate car ownership and driving because we want fewer deaths, the same is true of guns.

The fact that we are a more tolerant society of irresponsibility that leads to deaths is also clear from the statistics, but that is what you are arguing for.
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Car ownership is hardly regulated at all.

Driving is the use of a car on public highways, and the regulations apply specifically to that use of the public highways.
 
RF667799 said:
Obtaining a gun legally is more highly regulated than obtaining a motor vehicle.

We could reduce traffic fatalities to virtually nil, with a few common sense regulations like limiting the top speed of vehicles to 30 mph and requiring safety equipment of the type used in NASCAR. Whattya think?
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Not where I live. To drive a car you need to license yourself to drive it, register with a photo ID, and register the car, inspect the car for safety and carry liability insurance.

Where as if I want to own a gun:

It is very easy to buy a gun in Pennsylvania • There is no waiting period. There is no license or permit to purchase required. There is no training required before or after purchasing a firearm. The minimum age to purchase a long gun (rifle, shot gun, semi-automatic rifle) is 18.
Click to expand...

This is how:
717armory.com

How to buy a gun in Pennsylvania | 717 Armory | PA Gun Shop

Buying a gun in Pennsylvania is easy but doestakes some time to process. Let's walk you through the step by step process of how to buy a gun in Pennsylvania
717armory.com 717armory.com

I go down to the store and I get one. You have to fill out a form and pay a fee for a background check.
 
RF667799 said:
Car ownership is hardly regulated at all.

Driving is the use of a car on public highways, and the regulations apply specifically to that use of the public highways.
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You mean owning cars that you don't intend to drive isn't regulated.

To own and operate a vehicle I must:

Apply for a leaners permit
Apply for a license and pass a drivers test
Register my vehicle
Inspect my vehicle

I've also never bought a vehicle that they didn't make sure I had the right to drive it...
 
RF667799 said:
We could reduce traffic fatalities to virtually nil, with a few common sense regulations like limiting the top speed of vehicles to 30 mph and requiring safety equipment of the type used in NASCAR. Whattya think?
Click to expand...

How about we try and reduce them by modeling the laws after systems with much better outcomes than ours instead?
 
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