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Shots fired on Michigan State University campus; police ask everyone to shelter in place

stealthycat said:
we have to identify who is committing the violence and why

you can grab web sites and look/compare, but the majority are men, and a big % are repeat offenders/previously incarcerated
the majority of murders they use guns, disproportionate are blacks. You can google more on studies on single family homes and the impacts/percentages

I used to think poverty was a big factor - I think that less and less. the links between drugs and homicide are real

knowing the above general information, we as a society need to stop releasing hardened criminals early AND install a punishment that is a big deterrent. I can stop almost all the speeding on the highways in the USA - do you want to know how? $15,000 penalty for every speeding ticket you get. There, done. People would stop speeding FAST if we did that, very hard penalties work.

attack the drug problem which BTW kills far far more people that violence does every year

we need mental asylums to help mentally ill, protect them from themselves and others


those all three would make immediate impacts - but in a free society people can still be violent if they choose. We feed American's violence every minute of the day - is it any wonder we are so violent ?







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Bigger social Safety Net to address poverty and mental illness and the decriminaliztion of drugs.

I could get behind that.
 
Jezcoe said:
Guys... keep on comparing Guns to Cars.

It just continues to make the argument for more State authority over firearms possible.
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I gave a valid reason why they can be...please directly explain why it's not valid. If something isnt working, why try it elsewhere?

If it's car safety that makes the difference, how can manufacturers make 'safer' guns? Modern guns are very safe to operate and have at least a couple, if not more, safety features.

If it's training to operate, how does training stop people from using guns in crimes? They dont care about bystanders, for example, and training makes people better shots.

So please explain why cars arent a valid comparison?
 
stealthycat said:
this man/family wasn't next

www.foxnews.com

Washington man shot dead by armed father at dog park after trying to 'endanger' child's life: police

Daniel Ortega, a 28-year-old Washington man, was shot dead by an armed father after police say he continued to harass the family at a dog park despite repeated warnings to stop.
www.foxnews.com www.foxnews.com

this man wasn't a victim

www.foxnews.com

Chicago homeowner shoots intruder in chest during struggle, police say

A Chicago homeowner shot one of two intruders who barged into his home Monday morning, police said.
www.foxnews.com www.foxnews.com

police were fast and killed this guy before he did damage

www.kshb.com

ATF Kansas City responds to shooting scene at Target in Omaha, Nebraska

The ATF Kansas City assisted in responding to a shooting scene around noon Tuesday at a Target near 178th Street and West Center Road in Omaha, Nebraska.
www.kshb.com www.kshb.com
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and yet people are next (about one per hour).

kids, just like your own, are next.
 
CaughtInThe said:
and yet people are next (about one per hour).

kids, just like your own, are next.
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far more likely to get hurt in car accidents, or suicide, or drug overdoses

yes, the could die by someone violent using a gun, or a knife, or something else - and if they face that threat I hope them are able to defend themselves
 
Lursa said:
I gave a valid reason why they can be...please directly explain why it's not valid. If something isnt working, why try it elsewhere?

If it's car safety that makes the difference, how can manufacturers make 'safer' guns? Modern guns are very safe to operate and have at least a couple, if not more, safety features.

If it's training to operate, how does training stop people from using guns in crimes? They dont care about bystanders, for example, and training makes people better shots.

So please explain why cars arent a valid comparison?
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Training would decrease the amount of unintentional deaths from firearms.

If one is required to train in the use of a firearm before the purchase of a firearm then one knows how to properly handle a firearm safely.
 
Jezcoe said:
Bigger social Safety Net to address poverty and mental illness and the decriminaliztion of drugs.

I could get behind that.
Click to expand...

drugs is a big part of the problem and you want MORE ? that's going to lead to more problems IMO - places with low drug use have far less problems with violence - is that true ?
 
Jezcoe said:
Training would decrease the amount of unintentional deaths from firearms.

If one is required to train in the use of a firearm before the purchase of a firearm then one knows how to properly handle a firearm safely.
Click to expand...

lets put NRA training into schools - deal ?
 
stealthycat said:
that's not the problem - getting rid of of one type of weapon does NOTHING to stop violent people

anti-gun people don't want to stop violence - they just want violence to use different weapons
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So, I assume you know how to stop violence? Please tell us. I am not totally anti-gun but am anti-semi-automatic weapons as they are used only to kill other people. Get rid of them and the death toll will noticeably drop.
 
I'm not sure why we can't fix this problem. It's simple. Get rid of guns, hand out enough reparations money so that no body needs to worry about finances any more and arrest all the white supremacists. Problem solved!
 
dockside said:
So, I assume you know how to stop violence? Please tell us. I am not totally anti-gun but am anti-semi-automatic weapons as they are used only to kill other people. Get rid of them and the death toll will noticeably drop.
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Why do you think a false statement is a good way to initiate a conversation?
 
stealthycat said:
I've proved it over and over

its simple

www.statista.com

Reported violent crime rate in the U.S. 2023| Statista

In 2023, the violent crime rate in the United States was 363.8 cases per 100,000 of the population.
www.statista.com www.statista.com

we have literally 200 million more guns or more

this isn't new information
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That is all violent crime not just gun violence . Aggrevated assault being pointed to as the most common data point on that chart.

After decreasing gun violence in the 80's to the 2010's it started increasing again as more and more firearms are being sold every year..

Now we see situations like firearms are the leading cause of death among those in this country between the ages of 1-19. The US in 2020 saw 4,357 firearms deaths in children. The next in line was Australia with 10.

We have a lot of guns in this country. I am not a gun abolitionist by any means but something is terribly broken and since Sandy Hook when children were murdered and not only this country did nothing but the counter to that massacre was vitriolic conspiracy that furthered ruined lives and laughing a President who dared to cry about the murder of children.... yeah... there is something deeply wrong here.
 
stealthycat said:
drugs is a big part of the problem and you want MORE ? that's going to lead to more problems IMO - places with low drug use have far less problems with violence - is that true ?
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Take the criminal element of drugs. Drug users aren't inherently violent.

Prohibition causes a lot of violence.
 
stealthycat said:
far more likely to get hurt in car accidents, or suicide, or drug overdoses

yes, the could die by someone violent using a gun, or a knife, or something else - and if they face that threat I hope them are able to defend themselves
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hell, people can die in the bathtub. that's why cars shouldn't be regulated.
 
Jezcoe said:
That is all violent crime not just gun violence . Aggrevated assault being pointed to as the most common data point on that chart.

After decreasing gun violence in the 80's to the 2010's it started increasing again as more and more firearms are being sold every year..

Now we see situations like firearms are the leading cause of death among those in this country between the ages of 1-19. The US in 2020 saw 4,357 firearms deaths in children. The next in line was Australia with 10.

We have a lot of guns in this country. I am not a gun abolitionist by any means but something is terribly broken and since Sandy Hook when children were murdered and not only this country did nothing but the counter to that massacre was vitriolic conspiracy that furthered ruined lives and laughing a President who dared to cry about the murder of children.... yeah... there is something deeply wrong here.
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Reference bold:

But while gun violence was decreasing, the number of guns was rising as well.
 
Jezcoe said:
Training would decrease the amount of unintentional deaths from firearms.
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Possibly, but that's not what I wrote, we're discussing intentional gun crimes here.

And you are presupposing that many/most people dont get training? Why is that? Do you have data on that? I'm not sure it would even reflect what people get 'growing up' with guns, like hunter training, etc.

Jezcoe said:
If one is required to train in the use of a firearm before the purchase of a firearm then one knows how to properly handle a firearm safely.
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There are 4 basic rules that are readily available, very logical and literally universal, everyone knows and shares them...do you?... and so it's not difficult. Some gun shops give them out on purchase. I'd be fine with making that mandatory.

Firearm Safety | | Wisconsin DNR

dnr.wisconsin.gov dnr.wisconsin.gov
 
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Josie said:
How?

And - self-defense? No?
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You would need a Constitutional amendment. Then do a gun buy back. Permitting process for all hunting rifles.

Self defense not a valid use case
 
RF667799 said:
Reference bold:

But while gun violence was decreasing, the number of guns was rising as well.
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There was a weapons ban in there during the period I reference.

Then that sunsetted and weapon sales increased and here we are.
 
saw this tweet by a mom on twitter...


"Every day since Sandy Hook I’ve made sure to memorize my kids’ outfits as they head off to school."
 
Lursa said:
Possibly, but that's not what I wrote, we're discussing intentional gun crimes here.

And you are presupposing that many/most people dont get training? Why is that? Do you have data on that? I'm not sure it would even reflect what people get 'growing up' with guns, like hunter training, etc.



There are 4 basic rules that are readily available, very logical and literally universal, everyone knows and shares them...do you?... and so it's not difficult. Some gun shops give them out on purchase. I'd be fine with making that mandatory.

Firearm Safety | | Wisconsin DNR

dnr.wisconsin.gov dnr.wisconsin.gov
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Oh... i am talking about all gun violence.

A lot of gun violence is from unintentional discharges.

That is like the lowest of hanging fruit to go after to get gun death and injuries down.
 
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