'Shall Not Be Infringed' - What Do These Words Really Mean?

[SkyChief]

The last four words in the 2nd Amendment are pretty clear (to me).

However, it seems there are other possible interpretations depending on one's political views.

What do the words 'Shall not be infringed' mean?

1) Shall not be infringed (ever).

2) Shall be infringed only when absolutely necessary for safety.

3) Shall be infringed if more than 51% of Americans agree to infringement(s).

4) Shall be infringed if ordered by the President (Executive Order).

 

[ecofarm]

It means "shall be infringed but pay attention". I believe the founders were realistic.

 

[AProudLefty]

The last four words in the 2nd Amendment are pretty clear (to me).

However, it seems there are other possible interpretations depending on one's political views.

What do the words 'Shall not be infringed' mean?

1) Shall not be infringed (ever).

2) Shall be infringed only when absolutely necessary for safety.

3) Shall be infringed if more than 51% of Americans agree to infringement(s).

4) Shall be infringed if ordered by the President (Executive Order).

It means anyone can own guns and that should not be denied.

 

[Rich2018]

The last four words in the 2nd Amendment are pretty clear (to me).

However, it seems there are other possible interpretations depending on one's political views.

What do the words 'Shall not be infringed' mean?

1) Shall not be infringed (ever).

2) Shall be infringed only when absolutely necessary for safety.

3) Shall be infringed if more than 51% of Americans agree to infringement(s).

4) Shall be infringed if ordered by the President (Executive Order).

You deliberately missed out the bit about in order the preserve a "well regulated militia".


Would a "well regulated militia" arm its members with a zillion kinds of gun with a hundred different calibers ?

The 2nd amendment was written when men were armed with rifled muskets and is a relic of the 18th century....just like the concept of a militia.

 

[AProudLefty]

You deliberately missed out the bit about in order the preserve a "well regulated militia".


Would a "well regulated militia" arm its members with a zillion kinds of gun with a hundred different calibers ?

The 2nd amendment was written when men were armed with rifled muskets and is a relic of the 18th century....just like the concept of a militia.

You need to know your history. They had more than just muskets.

 

[Rogue Valley]

You deliberately missed out the bit about in order the preserve a "well regulated militia".


Would a "well regulated militia" arm its members with a zillion kinds of gun with a hundred different calibers ?

The 2nd amendment was written when men were armed with rifled muskets and is a relic of the 18th century....just like the concept of a militia.

The authors of the 2nd Amendment never envisioned the automatic weapons available today, mass shootings, armed teachers, and a shameful murder rate.

 

[Rich2018]

You need to know your history. They had more than just muskets.

The British army actually had a breech loader in the war, it proved unsatisfactory.

 

[Rich2018]

The authors of the 2nd Amendment never envisioned the automatic weapons available today, mass shootings, armed teachers, and a shameful murder rate.

Nope, an assault rifle then would be incomprehensible.

We have an 18th century constitutional amendment for 21st century guns.


Anyone who says the concept of a militia is relevant has just OD'd on patriotism / MAGA.

 

[AProudLefty]

The authors of the 2nd Amendment never envisioned the automatic weapons available today, mass shootings, armed teachers, and a shameful murder rate.

 

[Exquisitor]

The authors of the 2nd Amendment never envisioned the automatic weapons available today, mass shootings, armed teachers, and a shameful murder rate.

The Second Amendment lays this out clearly.

First it says, "Well regulated militia."

The purpose of the right to bear arms is not so that I can run around with a gun, but provide Militia for myself and others.

In that it says well regulated, does not prohibit everyone to get a license and take a class.

Does not prohibit a buy and no-buy list, provided there is due process.

You can still buy, and carry a fire-arm, nothing has been infringed.

One may interpret the Constitution as speaking in the negative, which means to infringe.

Guns

 

[Common Sense 1]

Here we go again! :gunsmilie:2nobashin:beatdeadhorseopcorn2:

 

[Rich2018]

The Second Amendment lays this out clearly.

First it says, "Well regulated militia."

The purpose of the right to bear arms is not so that I can run around with a gun, but provide Militia for myself and others.

In that it says well regulated, does not prohibit everyone to get a license and take a class.

Does not prohibit a buy and no-buy list, provided there is due process.

You can still buy, and carry a fire-arm, nothing has been infringed.

One may interpret the Constitution as speaking in the negative, which means to infringe.

Guns

I think the SC ruled that all US citizens of age are deemed to be in the militia.

 

[danielpalos]

The last four words in the 2nd Amendment are pretty clear (to me).

However, it seems there are other possible interpretations depending on one's political views.

What do the words 'Shall not be infringed' mean?

1) Shall not be infringed (ever).

2) Shall be infringed only when absolutely necessary for safety.

3) Shall be infringed if more than 51% of Americans agree to infringement(s).

4) Shall be infringed if ordered by the President (Executive Order).

SECTION 22. RIGHT TO ARMS
Subject only to the police power, the right of the individual citizen to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.
(Source: Illinois Constitution.)

 

[Exquisitor]

I think the SC ruled that all US citizens of age are deemed to be in the militia.

Yes, and everyone should have my gun buyer's license.

 

[danielpalos]

The defense and protection of the state and of the United States is an obligation of all persons within the state. The legislature shall provide for the discharge of this obligation and for the maintenance and regulation of an organized militia.

 

[Rich2018]

Yes, and everyone should have my gun buyer's license.

Including criminals to be and those not caught yet....and their friends and suppliers.

 

[Exquisitor]

Including criminals to be and those not caught yet....and their friends and suppliers.

No, they're excluded.

 

[Rich2018]

No, they're excluded.

How so ?

 

[Exquisitor]

How so ?

First of all, the gun buyer's license is not a carry and conceal permit, you would still need to have your gun in its case outside the range, hunting or home.

Besides the license there is the buy and five tir no-buy lists that the courts have the power to put you on or off.

Anyone put on the list would be informed and have a hearing.

The class gives mental health training so that such persons would know when to give up their weapons should they become mentally ill. Also civics training so that the only way you can loose your right to buy a firearm is if you were conspired upon by a click of catty high school girls.

Yes, I would be a champion of the first amendment.

Believe me, I am out to take away your right to buy a firearm.

 

[Rich2018]

First of all, the gun buyer's license is not a carry and conceal permit, you would still need to have your gun in its case outside the range, hunting or home.

So what, they still have a gun

Besides the license there is the buy and five tir no-buy lists that the courts have the power to put you on or off.

Not if you're not known to the courts yet

The class gives mental health training so that such persons would know when to give up their weapons should they become mentally ill....

You're suggesting that a person becoming mentally ill retains the cognitive powers they had before ?

Yes, I would be a champion of the first amendment.

A majority of Americans favor re-writing it

Believe me, I am out to take away your right to buy a firearm.

Without repealing the 2nd amendment ?

 

[TurtleDude]

The authors of the 2nd Amendment never envisioned the automatic weapons available today, mass shootings, armed teachers, and a shameful murder rate.

how do you know-Da vinci envisioned machine guns and parachutes. What the founders most likely could not envision includes

satellite communications and television

presidential contenders who wanted to prevent citizens from keeping and bearing the same individual weapon of an infantry soldier

 

[Rich2018]

how do you know-Da vinci envisioned machine guns and parachutes. What the founders most likely could not envision includes

satellite communications and television

presidential contenders who wanted to prevent citizens from keeping and bearing the same individual weapon of an infantry soldier

Back in the 18th century infantry soldiers weapons were very crude. The British soldier was predominantly using the Brown Bess musket - used from 1722-1838

If anything the revolutionary colonists were better armed.


Today the infantry soldier can call upon firepower that would have been unimaginable to the framers of the Constitution. Small arms account for very few casualties in a conventional battle.

 

[danielpalos]

...it means, only the unorganized militia complains about gun control laws.

 

[Rich2018]

...it means, only the unorganized militia complains about gun control laws.

Are there any other kinds ?

 

[Bum]

“It depends on what the meaning of the word ‘is’ is.”

:coffeepap