• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

"Separation of Church and State"

what is?? you clean forgot to say?

Why are you being obtuse?

The Golden Rule predates christianity and it not unique to any one culture or religion.
Obscurity references Confucius but the concepts of the Rule appears in the Code of Hammurabi and even earlier Codices.
 
So now conservatives are statist? You lot make no sense.

We need zero religion. It is shackles of the mind that poisons the populace.

Liberals have not killed off religion. Science has slain that old dragon and technology has sealed the tomb.

Our founders were DEIST, not theist. You best learn the difference before you spew nonsense.

One point: SOME of the Founding Fathers were deists, while others were theists.

Founding Fathers, Deism and Christianity

For some time the question of the religious faith of the Founding Fathers has generated a culture war in the United States. Scholars trained in research universities have generally argued that the majority of the Founders were religious rationalists or Unitarians. Pastors and other writers who identify themselves as Evangelicals have claimed not only that most of the Founders held orthodox beliefs but also that some were born-again Christians.

The sweeping disagreement over the religious faiths of the Founders arises from a question of discrepancy. Did their private beliefs differ from the orthodox teachings of their churches? On the surface, most Founders appear to have been orthodox (or “right-believing”) Christians. Most were baptized, listed on church rolls, married to practicing Christians, and frequent or at least sporadic attenders of services of Christian worship. In public statements, most invoked divine assistance.

But the widespread existence in 18th-century America of a school of religious thought called Deism complicates the actual beliefs of the Founders. Drawing from the scientific and philosophical work of such figures as Jean-Jacques Rousseau, Isaac Newton, and John Locke, Deists argued that human experience and rationality—rather than religious dogma and mystery—determine the validity of human beliefs. In his widely read The Age of Reason, Thomas Paine, the principal American exponent of Deism, called Christianity “a fable.” Paine, the protégé of Benjamin Franklin, denied “that the Almighty ever did communicate anything to man, by…speech,…language, or…vision.” Postulating a distant deity whom he called “Nature’s God” (a term also used in the Declaration of Independence), Paine declared in a “profession of faith”:

I believe in one God, and no more; and I hope for happiness beyond this life. I believe in the equality of man; and I believe that religious duties consist in doing justice, loving mercy, and in endeavoring to make our fellow-creatures happy.
 
The Golden Rule predates christianity .

we are not looking for first time in history when people loved their neighbors but rather for who made it a core belief of Western Civilization. Now you can understand why Christianity is at the core of our civilization and why liberals are so deadly for hating Christianity.
 
Sorry, it is a rational person's answer to gibberish and nonsense simply because there can be no debating with those unwilling to accept reality.

oh no it is you are unwilling to accept reality!!

( this is a liberals idea of debating)
 
we are not looking for first time in history when people loved their neighbors but rather for who made it a core belief of Western Civilization.

It was at the core of several law codes that predate the Hebrews.

The 10 Commandments are not original, either, They're simply a plagiarized version of Egyptian law codes.

Now you can understand why Christianity is at the core of our civilization and why liberals are so deadly for hating Christianity.

So he says, totally ignoring the more than 1 Billion people who were tortured, murdered or had their property confiscated by christians for not converting to christianity.

If it wasn't for government, you wouldn't know anything at all about Jesus.

Not only that, but your flavor of christianity, the Nicaean flavor, was chosen by government over other flavors, like Manichean, Nestorian, Alexandrian, etc.
 
the exact opposite actually. Jesus left very little behind, the entire religion had to be formed and reformed throughout history. Its subject to constant revision and recreations. Ever heard of the Reformation, for example?? Ever see The School of Athens fresco at the Vatican it shows all of history's great thinkers with the church trying to reconcile them all. Learning basics is so much fun isn't it??

so you don't actually believe it?
 
totally naive of course. Without religion life has no meaning or hope. This is why we have so many deaths of despair, school shootings etc. Do you like that??

what meaning could religion add we exist because and we exist because a god exists because and made us because seem about the same

and you seem about as likely to have an after life just because as you would have an afterlife because a god made one just because
 
It was at the core of several law codes that predate the Hebrews.
The 10 Commandments are not original, either, They're simply a plagiarized version of Egyptian law codes.

nobody said they were original just that that when popularized by Christianity created Western Civilization which in turn saved human civilization on earth. Does the liberal understand now?
 
Last edited:
So he says, totally ignoring the more than 1 Billion people who were tortured, murdered or had their property confiscated by christians for not converting to christianity.

more than 1 billion?? Entire population of world was 300,000,000 in 1500AD. You just got caught red handed telling a whopping lie that a child could discover.
 
Last edited:
If it wasn't for government, you wouldn't know anything at all about Jesus.

Jesus was in New Testament which was not written by govt?? Guess you got another one perfectly wrong??
 
Not only that, but your flavor of christianity, the Nicaean flavor, was chosen by government over other flavors, like Manichean, Nestorian, Alexandrian, etc.

so??? do you have any idea why you are telling us that??
 
what meaning could religion add we exist because and we exist because a god exists because and made us because seem about the same

and you seem about as likely to have an after life just because as you would have an afterlife because a god made one just because

very poor english. Can you try again so we can understand at least a little of why you are trying to say?
 
so you don't actually believe it?

it does not matter whether I believe it. It matters that it created Western Civilization and liberals are trying to kill it.
 
The Golden Rule predates christianity

yes being kind to your neighbor predates Christianity but Christianity popularized the concept and created Western Civilization around it. Now do you understand?
 
it does not matter whether I believe it. It matters that it created Western Civilization and liberals are trying to kill it.

Citation it 'created Western Civilization" ?
 
Jesus was in New Testament which was not written by govt?? Guess you got another one perfectly wrong??

You are incapable of understanding.

so??? do you have any idea why you are telling us that??

Government is the only reason you even know about Jesus.

If Emperor Constantine doesn't recognize christianity, then it would have died out, like all other myths.

Then, in 382 CE, Emperor Theodosius makes christianity the official State religion of the Roman Empire, and bans, under pain of death, all other religions.

If that doesn't happen, the christianity dies out, like all other myths eventually do.

Note that previous emperors had banned Manichean Christianity and Nestorian Christianity, under pain of death. If that doesn't happen, then it's quite likely one of those, or Alexandrian Christianity, or even Cesarean or Byzantine Christianity would have supplanted Nicaean Christianity, and everything you know would be different.

In 533 CE, Emperor Justinian issues an edict making John the Bishop of Rome the first pope and the chief persecutor of heretics. John immediately starts torturing and murdering anyone in the Church that doesn't subscribe 100% to his views, and also everyone outside the Church who doesn't subscribe 100% to his views.

John also implements an hierarchal system within the church that paralleled the hierarchy of the Western Roman Empire.

Later popes would foist that system on the people of Western Europe, beginning with the crowning of Charlemagne in 800 CE.

Humanity takes 100-steps backwards, because the Greek and Roman Empires had moved away from the idea of rule by "divine right" and now it is being rammed down people's throats, and worse than that, it creates the greater and lesser noble class, who lord over people stifling all vision, thought, innovation and commerce.

Kings, dukes, barons and others cannot rule without the appointment, consent, blessing and support of the popes, and anyone who doesn't curry favor with the popes is deposed by the pope's personal private papal armies, and later by armies from the Holy Roman Empire.

It is a world filled with terror.

Christianity is being rammed down people's throats by government and the church under pain of torture, imprisonment, death or confiscation of property, and without that, you wouldn't know a damn thing about Jesus, because christianity would have died out.

History has proven that when a government stops supporting any religion, it eventually dies out.

That's why people just like you are panic stricken.

You can't force people to pray in school any more, and as government decouples itself from religion, people will, left to their own devices, eventually side with logic and reason instead of fantastical myths.

Does the liberal understand now?

To which Liberal are you referring?

I'm an ultra-conservative.

more than 1 billion?? Entire population of world was 300,000,000 in 1500AD. You just got caught red handed telling a whopping lie that a child could discover.

I never said anything about 1500 CE.

But, now that you've brought it up, population estimates for 1500 CE range from a low of 470 Million to an high of 540 Million, not the 300 Million you claim.

I wasn't referring to a single year, I was referring to 1,500 years of brutal torture, death and imprisonment.

An estimated 8 Million women were burned as witches, because apparently, your god is too damn stupid to understand that there are no such thing as witches.
 
very poor english. Can you try again so we can understand at least a little of why you are trying to say?

hat meaning could religion add we exist because and we exist because a god exists because and made us because seem about the same

and you seem about as likely to have an after life just because as you would have an afterlife because a god made one just because
 
it does not matter whether I believe it. It matters that it created Western Civilization and liberals are trying to kill it.

yes its matters if you don't believe it that means you want people to embrace a lie in order to get people to do what you would prefer
 
yes being kind to your neighbor predates Christianity but Christianity popularized the concept and created Western Civilization around it. Now do you understand?

and we have improved on it now that we can stick to that rule even if a religion makes an exception
 
and we have improved on it now that we can stick to that rule even if a religion makes an exception

if you have any idea what your point is please let us know in better English
. I suggest you read your posts before posting them.
 
if you have any idea what your point is please let us know in better English
. I suggest you read your posts before posting them.

and we have improved on it now that we can stick to that rule even if a religion makes an exception
 
yes its matters if you don't believe it that means you want people to embrace a lie in order to get people to do what you would prefer

1) OMG, having faith is not embracing a lie
2) if Nazis had embraced the thou shalt not murder lie( as you call it) 60 million would not have been slaughtered. Do you understand now?
 
hat meaning could religion add we exist because and we exist because a god exists because and made us because seem about the same

and you seem about as likely to have an after life just because as you would have an afterlife because a god made one just because

better english please!!
 
If Emperor Constantine doesn't recognize christianity, then it would have died out, like all other myths..

backwards of course. the reason he recognized it was because it became clear it was not going to die out. THE very last thing he needed was a distracting myth
Do you understand??
 
Back
Top Bottom