Sen. Landrieu's remarks on race anger Republicans[W:466]

Hatuey · Nov 6, 2014

Re: Sen. Landrieu's remarks on race anger Republicans

mac said:
Weak post is weak.

"Many people today will avoid calling the Irish slaves what they truly were: Slaves. They’ll come up with terms like “Indentured Servants” to describe what occurred to the Irish. However, in most cases from the 17th and 18th centuries, Irish slaves were nothing more than human cattle."
The Irish Slave Trade

Somedays, I really wish people would check their sources before they started citing nutty revisionist websites:

Michel Chossudovsky - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In 2001, Chossudovsky founded the Centre for Research on Globalisation (CRG), located in Montreal, Canada, becoming its editor and director. It describes itself as being "committed to curbing the tide of globalisation and disarming the new world order".[5]

A 2005 article in The Jewish Tribune criticized GlobalResearch.ca as "rife with anti-Jewish conspiracy theory and Holocaust denial." B'nai Brith Canada had complained that there were comments on a forum that questioned how many Jews died in the Holocaust.

Terry O'Neill, in the Western Standard included Chossudovsky on the list of "Canada's nuttiest professors, those whose absurdity stands head and shoulders above their colleagues";[16] criticizing Chussodovsky's thesis and views – that the U.S. had knowledge of the September 11 attacks before they happened; that Washington had weapons that could influence climate change; and lastly, that the large banking institutions are the cause of the collapse of smaller economies – as "wild-eyed conspiracy theories".[16]

Terry Glavin: Ottawa’s Gaddafi fans find their world crumbling | National Post

The Centre for Research on Globalization is – how to put it delicately- a Canadian clubhouse for crackpots of the anti-war, 911-truth, anti-imperialist and anti-Zionist variety. The Centre would not normally be worth noticing except for a laugh. But, today is not a normal day.

You're using a "source" that is used by everyone from Stormfront to MotherJones to PrisonPlanet. You're not convincing anyone.

mac · Nov 6, 2014

Re: Sen. Landrieu's remarks on race anger Republicans

Hatuey said:
Somedays, I really wish people would check their sources before they started citing nutty revisionist websites:

Michel Chossudovsky - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Terry Glavin: Ottawa’s Gaddafi fans find their world crumbling | National Post

You're using a "source" that is used by everyone from Stormfront to MotherJones to PrisonPlanet. You're not convincing anyone.

Slavery in medieval Europe - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Internet History Sourcebooks Project

Internet History Sourcebooks Project

Slavery in the British Isles - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Whatever your view of the source, slavery in Europe of Europeans by Europeans is well documented dating all the way back to the Roman Empire. While white European slaves in America are often called "indentured servants" now, at the time they were slaves.

apdst · Nov 6, 2014

Re: Sen. Landrieu's remarks on race anger Republicans

poweRob said:
Indentured servants are not slaves. You own a slave. You hire an indentured servant. An indentured servant can be a citizen and is considered another human being. Slaves generally are not and are considered property.

That's incorrect, technically. Indentured servants were considered property.

Slavery and Indentured Servants:Law Library of Congress

Hatuey · Nov 6, 2014

Re: Sen. Landrieu's remarks on race anger Republicans

mac said:
Slavery in medieval Europe - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Nothing to do with your link to a nutty conspiracy website.

Internet History Sourcebooks Project

Nothing to do with your link to a nutty conspiracy website.

Internet History Sourcebooks Project

Nothing to do with your link to a nutty conspiracy website.

Slavery in the British Isles - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Nothing to do with your link to a nutty conspiracy website.

Whatever your view of the source, slavery in Europe of Europeans by Europeans is well documented dating all the way back to the Roman Empire. While white European slaves in America are often called "indentured servants" now, at the time they were slaves.

Yes, and ALL of your links point to white slavery being an issue in the MIDDLE AGES. The fact that you posted a link to a revisionist website known for anti-semitic nonsense, well that just makes it laughable. Do you frequent a lot of revisionist websites mac?

mac · Nov 6, 2014

Re: Sen. Landrieu's remarks on race anger Republicans

Hatuey said:
Nothing to do with your link to a nutty conspiracy website.

Nothing to do with your link to a nutty conspiracy website.

Nothing to do with your link to a nutty conspiracy website.

Nothing to do with your link to a nutty conspiracy website.

Yes, they do have something to do with my link.

Yes, and ALL of your links point to white slavery being an issue in the MIDDLE AGES. The fact that you posted a link to a revisionist website known for anti-semitic nonsense, well that just makes it laughable. Do you frequent a lot of revisionist websites mac?

The history of white slavery is a valid part of my point, and these links verify that it existed. Further, they refer to the period of time in the first link regarding approx 100,000 Irish slaves exported to the Americas.

Do you deny that there were white, Irish slaves shipped to the Americas and sold there?

Grant · Nov 6, 2014

Re: Sen. Landrieu's remarks on race anger Republicans

Hatuey said:
Somedays, I really wish people would check their sources before they started citing nutty revisionist websites:

Michel Chossudovsky - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Even if that is an iffy website does that mean there was no White slavery, or that there isn't more recent incidents? Your denial seems odd.

Ahlevah · Nov 7, 2014

Re: Sen. Landrieu's remarks on race anger Republicans

poweRob said:
just for the record all I want to know is, do you stand with this comment...

Slavery had nothing to do with racism. -- apdst

Yes or no?

If I can comment on this, one trick I used when taking multiple choice tests in high school was to eliminate any answer with words like "always," "never," "everything," and "nothing." So offhand I'd say the answer to this question is "No." But I would also say that the principal driver of slavery was (and is) economic. If you're going to treat a person as property, then the first order of business is to dehumanize him or portray him as being unworthy of being extended humane treatment. You do that by pointing out how he's different. So the African becomes little more than a monkey or baboon with subhuman intelligence, the girl sold into the sex trade becomes a "bitch" to get beaten and branded, and the conquering army calls the defeated girls who are sold into slavery "infidels," as ISIS is doing today in Syria and Iraq.

poweRob · Nov 7, 2014

Re: Sen. Landrieu's remarks on race anger Republicans

Ahlevah said:
If I can comment on this, one trick I used when taking multiple choice tests in high school was to eliminate any answer with words like "always," "never," "everything," and "nothing." So offhand I'd say the answer to this question is "No."

And that is precisely why I chose to highlight the "never" part of the comment.

Ahlevah said:
But I would also say that the principal driver of slavery was (and is) economic. If you're going to treat a person as property, then the first order of business is to dehumanize him or portray him as being unworthy of being extended humane treatment. You do that by pointing out how he's different. So the African becomes little more than a monkey or baboon with subhuman intelligence, the girl sold into the sex trade becomes a "bitch" to get beaten and branded, and the conquering army calls the defeated girls who are sold into slavery "infidels," as ISIS is doing today in Syria and Iraq.

This exactly what I've been saying all along and I've said it multiple times in this thread. Slavery (US slavery) was economic in its purpose and racist in it's implementation. Yet here's grant is liking your posts after having attacked mine. Go figure. :lol:

Grant · Nov 8, 2014

Re: Sen. Landrieu's remarks on race anger Republicans

poweRob said:
And that is precisely why I chose to highlight the "never" part of the comment.

This exactly what I've been saying all along and I've said it multiple times in this thread. Slavery (US slavery) was economic in its purpose and racist in it's implementation. Yet here's grant is liking your posts after having attacked mine. Go figure. :lol:

It's not hard to figure. You're claiming it's racism, Ahlevah understood it was economic.

Although, if you were to read Democracy in America, you'd discover it was not good economics.

mac · Nov 9, 2014

Re: Sen. Landrieu's remarks on race anger Republicans

Hatuey said:
Somedays, I really wish people would check their sources before they started citing nutty revisionist websites:

Michel Chossudovsky - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Terry Glavin: Ottawa’s Gaddafi fans find their world crumbling | National Post

You're using a "source" that is used by everyone from Stormfront to MotherJones to PrisonPlanet. You're not convincing anyone.

mac said:
Slavery in medieval Europe - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Internet History Sourcebooks Project

Internet History Sourcebooks Project

Slavery in the British Isles - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Whatever your view of the source, slavery in Europe of Europeans by Europeans is well documented dating all the way back to the Roman Empire. While white European slaves in America are often called "indentured servants" now, at the time they were slaves.

Hatuey said:
Nothing to do with your link to a nutty conspiracy website.

Nothing to do with your link to a nutty conspiracy website.

Nothing to do with your link to a nutty conspiracy website.

Nothing to do with your link to a nutty conspiracy website.

Yes, and ALL of your links point to white slavery being an issue in the MIDDLE AGES. The fact that you posted a link to a revisionist website known for anti-semitic nonsense, well that just makes it laughable. Do you frequent a lot of revisionist websites mac?

mac said:
Yes, they do have something to do with my link.

The history of white slavery is a valid part of my point, and these links verify that it existed. Further, they refer to the period of time in the first link regarding approx 100,000 Irish slaves exported to the Americas.

Do you deny that there were white, Irish slaves shipped to the Americas and sold there?

So, gave up, huh? Typical.

Hatuey · Nov 9, 2014

Re: Sen. Landrieu's remarks on race anger Republicans

mac said:
So, gave up, huh? Typical.

No no, I question your interpretation of the facts given by a revisionist website. Hell, the authors make the effort to not compare black slavery to Irish indentured servitude and yet here you are doing exactly what the author is trying to not do.

mac · Nov 9, 2014

Re: Sen. Landrieu's remarks on race anger Republicans

Hatuey said:
Somedays, I really wish people would check their sources before they started citing nutty revisionist websites:

Michel Chossudovsky - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Terry Glavin: Ottawa’s Gaddafi fans find their world crumbling | National Post

You're using a "source" that is used by everyone from Stormfront to MotherJones to PrisonPlanet. You're not convincing anyone.

mac said:
Slavery in medieval Europe - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Internet History Sourcebooks Project

Internet History Sourcebooks Project

Slavery in the British Isles - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Whatever your view of the source, slavery in Europe of Europeans by Europeans is well documented dating all the way back to the Roman Empire. While white European slaves in America are often called "indentured servants" now, at the time they were slaves.

Hatuey said:
Nothing to do with your link to a nutty conspiracy website.

Nothing to do with your link to a nutty conspiracy website.

Nothing to do with your link to a nutty conspiracy website.

Nothing to do with your link to a nutty conspiracy website.

Yes, and ALL of your links point to white slavery being an issue in the MIDDLE AGES. The fact that you posted a link to a revisionist website known for anti-semitic nonsense, well that just makes it laughable. Do you frequent a lot of revisionist websites mac?

mac said:
Yes, they do have something to do with my link.

The history of white slavery is a valid part of my point, and these links verify that it existed. Further, they refer to the period of time in the first link regarding approx 100,000 Irish slaves exported to the Americas.

Do you deny that there were white, Irish slaves shipped to the Americas and sold there?

Hatuey said:
No no, I question your interpretation of the facts given by a revisionist website. Hell, the authors make the effort to not compare black slavery to Irish indentured servitude and yet here you are doing exactly what the author is trying to not do.

Ok, read the book. Listen to the quite respectable historians that the "questionable" website cited.

There's no doubt that for centuries whites enslaved whites.

So, again, do you deny that thousands of Irish were enslaved and sold in America?

Hatuey · Nov 9, 2014

Re: Sen. Landrieu's remarks on race anger Republicans

mac said:
Ok, read the book. Listen to the quite respectable historians that the "questionable" website cited.

There's no doubt that for centuries whites enslaved whites.

So, again, do you deny that thousands of Irish were enslaved and sold in America?

You do realize there is a difference between people who for the most part sold themselves into slavery to pay off debts and people being taken by force and used as slaves? Yes?

mac · Nov 9, 2014

Re: Sen. Landrieu's remarks on race anger Republicans

Hatuey said:
You do realize there is a difference between people who for the most part sold themselves into slavery to pay off debts and people being taken by force and used as slaves? Yes?

Yeah, that's revisionism. There were thousands that were enslaved completely against their will. Further, most of those that entered an indentured servitude contract were never released from the contract. So, slavery of another name.

Do you deny that thousands of Irish were enslaved and sold in America?

Hatuey · Nov 9, 2014

Re: Sen. Landrieu's remarks on race anger Republicans

mac said:
Yeah, that's revisionism.

You should know, you seem to use revisionist websites when it suits your weak arguments.

There were thousands that were enslaved completely against their will.

Indentured servant - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"puts his conditions to the emigrants in Dublin or some other Irish port. Those who can pay for their passage—usually about 100 or 80 [livres tournois]—arrive in America free to take any engagement that suits them. Those who cannot pay are carried at the expense of the shipowner, who in order to recoup his money, advertises on arrival that he has imported artisans, laborers and domestic servants and that he has agreed with them on his own account to hire their services for a period normally of three, four, or five years for men and women and 6 or 7 years for children."

Further, most of those that entered an indentured servitude contract were never released from the contract. So, slavery of another name.

Do you deny that thousands of Irish were enslaved and sold in America?

Not only is your statement false, it's absolutely ridiculous and debunked:

Eric Foner: Give me liberty said:
Indentures could not marry without the permission of their owner, were subject to physical punishment (like many young ordinary servants), and saw their obligation to labor enforced by the courts. To ensure uninterrupted work by the female servants, the law lengthened the term of their indenture if they became pregnant. But unlike slaves, servants were guaranteed to be eventually released from bondage. At the end of their term they received a payment known as "freedom dues" and become free members of society.

Indentured Servants [ushistory.org]

Servants whose contracts had expired typically received "freedom dues," loosely described as a quantity of corn and clothing. The 1705 statute was the first to explicitly mention this "good and laudable custom," and required that male servants, "upon their freedom," be supplied with ten bushels of corn, thirty shillings (or the like value in goods), and a musket worth at least twenty shillings. Women were entitled to fifteen bushels of corn and the equivalent of forty shillings.

You're trying really hard to do what the book you didn't read is telling you not to do mac.

mac · Nov 9, 2014

Re: Sen. Landrieu's remarks on race anger Republicans

Hatuey said:
You should know, you seem to use revisionist websites when it suits your weak arguments.

Indentured servant - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Not only is your statement false, it's absolutely ridiculous and debunked:

Indentured Servants [ushistory.org]

You're trying really hard to do what the book you didn't read is telling you not to do mac.

Do you deny that thousands of Irish were enslaved and sold in America?

jmotivator · Nov 9, 2014

Re: Sen. Landrieu's remarks on race anger Republicans

mac said:
Do you deny that thousands of Irish were enslaved and sold in America?

Looks like they need some education.

Here is a pretty good primer at DailyKOS of all places.

mac · Nov 10, 2014

Re: Sen. Landrieu's remarks on race anger Republicans

jmotivator said:
Looks like they need some education.

Here is a pretty good primer at DailyKOS of all places.

He really doesn't want to answer the question, I guess.

Sen. Landrieu's remarks on race anger Republicans[W:466]

Hatuey

Rule of Two

mac

apdst

Hatuey

Rule of Two

mac

Grant

Ahlevah

poweRob

USMC 1988-1996

Grant

mac

Hatuey

Rule of Two

mac

Hatuey

Rule of Two

mac

Hatuey

Rule of Two

mac

jmotivator

Computer Gaming Nerd

mac

Sen. Landrieu's remarks on race anger Republicans[W:466]

Rule of Two

Rule of Two

USMC 1988-1996

Rule of Two

Rule of Two

Rule of Two

Computer Gaming Nerd

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency