Sea level rise; Where is the water coming from?

[Tim the plumber]

I am a simple plumber.

I am unable to comment on the impact of CO[SUB]2[/SUB] on the absorption of differing wavelengths of light in the atmosphere.

I can, however, add up. This skill allows me to understand how much ice will have to melt to get any sea level rise.

The IPCC's 4th report said that the worst case scenario was a 59cm sea level rise. This needed a 6.4[SUP]o[/SUP]c temperature rise (by 2100). They then revised this down to a 3.2[SUP]o[/SUP]c rise.

I was unable to see what ice is vunerable to melting to get such a figure last time.

The new report (5th) has a worst case of 2m.

Where is all this water supposed to be coming from then?

 

[KevinKohler]

Ice.


See, when water freezes, it turns to ice. Of lot water on this planet is still ice, leftover from the last ice age. We call them glaciers. They melt, become water, and flow to the ocean.


That's the theory, anyway.

 

[Dezaad]

Some of the sea level rise would be due to expansion. When substances are warmed up, they expand. If the ocean is warmed, it will expand.

 

[DaveFagan]

I am a simple plumber.

I am unable to comment on the impact of CO[SUB]2[/SUB] on the absorption of differing wavelengths of light in the atmosphere.

I can, however, add up. This skill allows me to understand how much ice will have to melt to get any sea level rise.

The IPCC's 4th report said that the worst case scenario was a 59cm sea level rise. This needed a 6.4[SUP]o[/SUP]c temperature rise (by 2100). They then revised this down to a 3.2[SUP]o[/SUP]c rise.

I was unable to see what ice is vunerable to melting to get such a figure last time.

The new report (5th) has a worst case of 2m.

Where is all this water supposed to be coming from then?

Arctic, Antarctica, Greenland. The Arctic is melting enough each year that commercial shipping is eyeing the Northwest Passage as a cheaper transport alternative. That is what the Arctic ice melt is about. The Arctic ice is only half as thick as it used to be and doesn't cover the surface area it did in the past. In Antarctica, 25 mile long icebergs have calved. Peruvian glaciers almost gone. The "tip of the iceberg."

 

[Tim the plumber]

Arctic ice is floating. It's melting will have no effect of sea level.

Antarctica is -20[SUP]o[/SUP]c in summer. A small warming will have no effect.

Greenland is a high plateau of ice sheet surrounded by mountains with glaciers running down to the coast. Each 100m of altitude decreases temperature by 1[SUP]o[/SUP]c. A 6[SUP]o[/SUP]c temperature increase will not impact the big ice sheet.

The small amounts of ice on the lower bits of Greenland can only account for, at most, a few thousand cubic kilometers of ice. That's just not significant when spread over the world's oceans.

 

[Tim the plumber]

Some of the sea level rise would be due to expansion. When substances are warmed up, they expand. If the ocean is warmed, it will expand.

The degree of expansion is determined by the temperature increase. This needs lots of thermal energy to be transferred into the oceans. It gets complicated for large bodies of liquid, too complicated for climate scientists. They thus paid some mechanical engineers to answer the question of how much expansion would happen.

The result was 7cm rise for each degree c increase over the century. Sod all.

I'll try to find the paper.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

Some of the sea level rise would be due to expansion. When substances are warmed up, they expand. If the ocean is warmed, it will expand.

One thing that is a bit weird about water is that in its frozen solid state, it actually has slightly more volume than in its liquid state. That's why ice floats—it has a greater volume than the same mass of liquid water. Enough of it will sink below the surface to displace its mass in liquid water, and the remainder beyond that will be above the surface of the water.

If water really contracted to a smaller volume when it froze, ice would be heavier than the same volume of liquid water, and would sink to the bottom.

And of course, a very large amount of the world's ice is floating in the ocean. When/if it melts, it will have no impact on the level of the ocean.

Try this experiment. Put some liquid water, and a fair amount of ice, in a glass. Mark the level of the top of the liquid water in the glass. Wait for the ice to melt, and see if that level changes. It won't.

 

[DaveFagan]

Arctic ice is floating. It's melting will have no effect of sea level.

Antarctica is -20[SUP]o[/SUP]c in summer. A small warming will have no effect.

Greenland is a high plateau of ice sheet surrounded by mountains with glaciers running down to the coast. Each 100m of altitude decreases temperature by 1[SUP]o[/SUP]c. A 6[SUP]o[/SUP]c temperature increase will not impact the big ice sheet.

The small amounts of ice on the lower bits of Greenland can only account for, at most, a few thousand cubic kilometers of ice. That's just not significant when spread over the world's oceans.

The Arctic ice is only half as thick as it used to be. Where did the other half of that ice go? It sure as hell isn't floating anymore.

 

[joG]

I am a simple plumber.

I am unable to comment on the impact of CO[SUB]2[/SUB] on the absorption of differing wavelengths of light in the atmosphere.

I can, however, add up. This skill allows me to understand how much ice will have to melt to get any sea level rise.

The IPCC's 4th report said that the worst case scenario was a 59cm sea level rise. This needed a 6.4[SUP]o[/SUP]c temperature rise (by 2100). They then revised this down to a 3.2[SUP]o[/SUP]c rise.

I was unable to see what ice is vunerable to melting to get such a figure last time.

The new report (5th) has a worst case of 2m.

Where is all this water supposed to be coming from then?

When it rains, it pours. Think Noah.

 

[DaveFagan]

When it rains, it pours. Think Noah.

Greenland does not float. It is ice on a huge island. Antarctica is a ice covered continent. Glaciers that are melting are on land. And then there is that rain thought. Evaporate more moisture in to the atmosphere and you will likely have more rain. Have you ever seen it rain and cause a flood, anywhere. It's not uncommon, and absolutely awesome how it can rain hard hour after hour after hour. Just keeps on keepin' on, don't ya' know?

 

[Dezaad]

One thing that is a bit weird about water is that in its frozen solid state, it actually has slightly more volume than in its liquid state. That's why ice floats—it has a greater volume than the same mass of liquid water. Enough of it will sink below the surface to displace its mass in liquid water, and the remainder beyond that will be above the surface of the water.

If water really contracted to a smaller volume when it froze, ice would be heavier than the same volume of liquid water, and would sink to the bottom.

And of course, a very large amount of the world's ice is floating in the ocean. When/if it melts, it will have no impact on the level of the ocean.

Try this experiment. Put some liquid water, and a fair amount of ice, in a glass. Mark the level of the top of the liquid water in the glass. Wait for the ice to melt, and see if that level changes. It won't.

It is also the reason pipes break when they freeze.

Not sure what this has to do with the price of tea in China, though. The only significant ice that is floating in the ocean is the arctic ice, but that isn't the majority of the frozen water on this planet.

 

[KevinKohler]

I can't speak to a rise in sea level, but I can say that ice melting, even floating ice, WILL affect weather. Water becomes ice because it loses energy, and becomes static. To put that another, more basic way, it loses heat, and freezes. When it melts, it is being energized again. Less = more energized water, to keep things simple. More energy = harsher weather. Storms that are larger with stronger winds, more lightning, etc.

 

[Earthling]

The Arctic ice is only half as thick as it used to be. Where did the other half of that ice go? It sure as hell isn't floating anymore.

Put an ice cube in a glass of water, fill the glass to the brim with liquid water, then sit and wait until the ice melts.

You'll see that the water level doesn't change and no water will spill out of the glass.

Ask yourself why and if you get no response, ask Google.

 

[Tim the plumber]

I can't speak to a rise in sea level, but I can say that ice melting, even floating ice, WILL affect weather. Water becomes ice because it loses energy, and becomes static. To put that another, more basic way, it loses heat, and freezes. When it melts, it is being energized again. Less = more energized water, to keep things simple. More energy = harsher weather. Storms that are larger with stronger winds, more lightning, etc.

I utterly fail to see this as any sort of valid argument.

Wind is driven by pressure differences. These are fundamentally the result of temperature differences. The GW hypothesis has an increased warming in the colder bits of the world so that's a reduction in the speed of the wind thus a reduction in storm ferocity.

 

[Earthling]

It is also the reason pipes break when they freeze.

Not sure what this has to do with the price of tea in China, though. The only significant ice that is floating in the ocean is the arctic ice, but that isn't the majority of the frozen water on this planet.

The Antarctic is freezing and expanding at a rate faster than the Arctic was melting and shrinking.

 

[joG]

Greenland does not float. It is ice on a huge island. Antarctica is a ice covered continent. Glaciers that are melting are on land. And then there is that rain thought. Evaporate more moisture in to the atmosphere and you will likely have more rain. Have you ever seen it rain and cause a flood, anywhere. It's not uncommon, and absolutely awesome how it can rain hard hour after hour after hour. Just keeps on keepin' on, don't ya' know?

That's when you need the old ark.

 

[Gimmesometruth]

I am a simple plumber.

I am unable to comment on the impact of CO[SUB]2[/SUB] on the absorption of differing wavelengths of light in the atmosphere.

I can, however, add up. This skill allows me to understand how much ice will have to melt to get any sea level rise.

The IPCC's 4th report said that the worst case scenario was a 59cm sea level rise. This needed a 6.4[SUP]o[/SUP]c temperature rise (by 2100). They then revised this down to a 3.2[SUP]o[/SUP]c rise.

I was unable to see what ice is vunerable to melting to get such a figure last time.

The new report (5th) has a worst case of 2m.

Where is all this water supposed to be coming from then?

Global warming is the primary cause of current sea level rise
Human activities, such as burning coal and oil and cutting down tropical forests, have increased atmospheric concentrations of heat-trapping gases and caused the planet to warm by 1.4 degrees Fahrenheit since 1880.

Climate-Related Contributions to Global Sea Level Rise
Rising temperatures are warming ocean waters, which expand as the temperature increases. This thermal expansion was the main driver of global sea level rise for 75 - 100 years after the start of the Industrial Revolution, though its relative contribution has declined as the shrinking of land ice has accelerated.
Land ice—glaciers, ice caps, and ice sheets—is shrinking at a faster rate in response to rising temperatures, adding water to the world's oceans.
As the rate of ice loss has accelerated, its contribution to global sea level rise has increased from a little more than half of the total increase from 1993 - 2008 to 75 - 80 percent of the total increase between 2003 - 2007.
Sea level will rise significantly over the coming century
Our past heat-trapping emissions have committed us to continued sea level rise over the coming decades, but our present and future emissions choices can affect the rise in seas and the pace at which it unfolds beyond 2050.

Even if global warming emissions were to drop to zero by 2016, scientists project another 1.2 to 2.6 feet of global sea level rise by 2100 as oceans and land ice adjust to the changes we have already made to the atmosphere.
Projections for global sea level rise by 2100 range from 8 inches to 6.6 feet above 1992 levels, though the lowest end of this range is a simple extension of historic sea level rise—and recent data indicate this rate has nearly doubled in recent years.
The rate and magnitude of the loss of ice sheets, primarily in Greenland and West Antarctica, will have the greatest effect on long-term sea level rise.

Causes of Sea Level Rise | Union of Concerned Scientists

Search:cause of sea level rise
About 25,400,000 results (0.26 seconds)

Google is your friend.

 

[Dezaad]

The Antarctic is freezing and expanding at a rate faster than the Arctic was melting and shrinking.

Your point?

 

[Earthling]

Greenland does not float. It is ice on a huge island. Antarctica is a ice covered continent. Glaciers that are melting are on land. And then there is that rain thought. Evaporate more moisture in to the atmosphere and you will likely have more rain. Have you ever seen it rain and cause a flood, anywhere. It's not uncommon, and absolutely awesome how it can rain hard hour after hour after hour. Just keeps on keepin' on, don't ya' know?

Have you decided to move to higher ground before the tide comes in?

 

[Tim the plumber]

Causes of Sea Level Rise | Union of Concerned Scientists

The "Union of Concerned Scientists" is not a group of scientists. It's a con designed to get donations out of idiots.

 

[Earthling]

Your point?

It isn't contributing to SLR, or isn't that obvious?

 

[Dezaad]

It isn't contributing to SLR, or isn't that obvious?

Did I say it currently is?

 

[Gimmesometruth]

The "Union of Concerned Scientists" is not a group of scientists. It's a con designed to get donations out of idiots.

Oh....I see.....you counter data.....with conspiracy theory.......while avoiding quoting me so as not to notify me to counter argument.

Well played.

Something tells me you have made this now apparent "rhetorical argument not interested in fact" before.....so I will leave you to your self imposed ignorance.

Good luck with that farce.

 

[Earthling]

Did I say it currently is?

So what was your point?

 

[Carjosse]

Arctic, Antarctica, Greenland. The Arctic is melting enough each year that commercial shipping is eyeing the Northwest Passage as a cheaper transport alternative. That is what the Arctic ice melt is about. The Arctic ice is only half as thick as it used to be and doesn't cover the surface area it did in the past. In Antarctica, 25 mile long icebergs have calved. Peruvian glaciers almost gone. The "tip of the iceberg."

Well that is unless we decide to enforce our sovereignty over it again.