SCOTUS rules Oklahoma can prosecute non-Natives on tribal lands

[Slartibartfast]

Yep - sounds like it! Well said!

Don't even get me started on that whole "history and tradition" nonsense, its so transparent.

 

[Rexedgar]

Lots of them refer to themselves as “Indians”. And I don’t think they claim it as a word only they can use. At least my exe’s boss doesn’t.

I have no direct knowledge. We had guy in the unit @ Ft. Bragg. He was going to return to Chicago to become a LEO. He was ok with ”chief.” You never know anymore, especially as the term refers to the explorers thinking that they had successfully sailed around the known world.

 

[Rexedgar]

Don't even get me started on that whole "history and tradition" nonsense, its so transparent.

I agree, they cherry-pick the convenient “history.”

 

[Chomsky]

Lots of them refer to themselves as “Indians”. And I don’t think they claim it as a word only they can use. At least my exe’s boss doesn’t.

If true, I would hope you don't extend your logic to the use of other cultures' potentially derogatory terms!

 

[mrjurrs]

Supreme Court rules Oklahoma can prosecute non-Natives who commit crimes on tribal lands

The opinion has the potential of redoing the court system not just in Oklahoma but in all 50 states.

www.axios.com

--

Fast on the heels of the Bruin (Roe) decision, the headline announcing this decision - above - immediately jumped-out at me, setting-off my 'ah-ha' detector!

It seems perhaps the Justices anticipate the theory where abortion, like gambling, might operate legally in the Native-American tribal areas that exist within states restricting abortion. The ruling above, would seem to possibly pro-actively preclude this jurisdictional loophole.

Is the above ruling & opinion merely coincidental? Am I seeing more here, than there is?

Just another in a long string of federal decisions to abuse First Peoples of America.

 

[Napoleon]

Supreme Court rules Oklahoma can prosecute non-Natives who commit crimes on tribal lands

The opinion has the potential of redoing the court system not just in Oklahoma but in all 50 states.

www.axios.com

--

Fast on the heels of the Bruin (Roe) decision, the headline announcing this decision - above - immediately jumped-out at me, setting-off my 'ah-ha' detector!

It seems perhaps the Justices anticipate the theory where abortion, like gambling, might operate legally in the Native-American tribal areas that exist within states restricting abortion. The ruling above, would seem to possibly pro-actively preclude this jurisdictional loophole.

Is the above ruling & opinion merely coincidental? Am I seeing more here, than there is?

I think you’re seeing more here than there is. This decision is consistent with the Court’s decision in Denezpi v. United States earlier this term - in which the Court decided that it is not double jeopardy for the Federal government to prosecute you twice for the same crime in tribal court and US Federal Court for a crime committed on a reservation. Their reasoning was that the person is prosecuted under two different sets of law representing separate and distinct sovereigns.

 

[Chomsky]

Just another in a long string of federal decisions to abuse First Peoples of America.

I might agree.

 

[Chomsky]

I think you’re seeing more here than there is. This decision is consistent with the Court’s decision in Denezpi v. United States earlier this term - in which the Court decided that it is not double jeopardy for the Federal government to prosecute you twice for the same crime in tribal court and US Federal Court for a crime committed on a reservation. Their reasoning was that the person is prosecuted under two different sets of law representing separate and distinct sovereigns.

What possible relevance does Denezpi have to my theory & Kavanaugh's opinions?

 

[reinaert]

**** this Court.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

They really should go all in and just discard all modern technology as well for the full 1850's experience.
Life was just so much better back then so I hear.

Starting with SCOTUS.
No automobile transportation, electricity, piped water or air conditioning.
They want to be Amish, let them live as the Amish do.

 

[Napoleon]

What possible relevance does Denezpi have to my theory & Kavanaugh's opinions?

It demonstrates that there is no nefarious connection between this case and the overturning of Roe. SCOTUS had already decided that people can be prosecuted in US courts for what they do on reservations before they even heard Dobbs.

 

[Cope]

They would have just backfilled different legal reasoning for the same outcome to adapt to that circumstance.

All the hypotheticals that get argued on this board would fill up an entire CT website!

 

[What if...?]

“…non-Indians against Indians in Indian country…….”

Seems pretty specific in wording. Is there such a thing as “triple jeopardy?” Federal, state and reservation?

I thought the term “Indian” was being phased out?

Lots of them refer to themselves as “Indians”. And I don’t think they claim it as a word only they can use. At least my exes boss doesn’t.

 

[RAMOSS]

Supreme Court rules Oklahoma can prosecute non-Natives who commit crimes on tribal lands

The opinion has the potential of redoing the court system not just in Oklahoma but in all 50 states.

www.axios.com

--

Fast on the heels of the Bruin (Roe) decision, the headline announcing this decision - above - immediately jumped-out at me, setting-off my 'ah-ha' detector!

It seems perhaps the Justices anticipate the theory where abortion, like gambling, might operate legally in the Native-American tribal areas that exist within states restricting abortion. The ruling above, would seem to possibly pro-actively preclude this jurisdictional loophole.

Is the above ruling & opinion merely coincidental? Am I seeing more here, than there is?

Well, it specifically says 'by non-indians against Indians'

having an abortion on trials lands would not be a crime committed by a non-Indian against an Indian.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

Supreme Court rules Oklahoma can prosecute non-Natives who commit crimes on tribal lands

The opinion has the potential of redoing the court system not just in Oklahoma but in all 50 states.

www.axios.com

--

Fast on the heels of the Bruin (Roe) decision, the headline announcing this decision - above - immediately jumped-out at me, setting-off my 'ah-ha' detector!

It seems perhaps the Justices anticipate the theory where abortion, like gambling, might operate legally in the Native-American tribal areas that exist within states restricting abortion. The ruling above, would seem to possibly pro-actively preclude this jurisdictional loophole.

Is the above ruling & opinion merely coincidental? Am I seeing more here, than there is?

This appears to me to be purely a matter of criminal jurisdiction. For years the standard has been that Indians committing crimes against Indians can go to tribal court or in serious cases federal district court, state court has no jurisdiction, from glancing over the ruling that remains true. Crimes committed by non Indians against non Indians, even on Indian land are a state issue, at least that’s the way it was where I used to live. I lived in Mason county WA and frequently visited an Indian casino run by the Squaxins and the Skokomish reservation and the sheriffs department was always pulling white people out of the buildings when they were causing trouble. Even though those tribes have tribal police.

What this establishes is that even when the victim is an Indian, a non Indian can still be prosecuted by state authorities. Whereas the understanding before hand was that they had to be charged under state law, but in a federal court.

In Washington these were non issues because the state and at least all the tribes I lived near had made an agreement a long time ago that the state would allow Tribal cops to be certified under Washington police training standards which allows them arrest under state law in exchange for tribal police following state law in regards to non Indians.

In any event as far as issues like abortion clinics are concerned? I don’t know that a future case will bring, but the traditional understanding has been that tribes with a reservation are exempt from state laws insofar as congress permits them to be. For example congress mandates tribes follow state liquor laws in regards to bars anx alcohol sales. So I would visit a cigar lounge in Tacoma on the Puyallup reservation where even though Washington bans indoor smoking the tribe can allow it, but the bar in the lounge has a state liquor license and follows all state liquor laws.

I don’t see where federal law specifically compels natives to follow state laws on abortion, but I don’t know how many places that will be applicable. I don’t know how many tribes want to be centers of abortion tourism and those that exist near cities are in blue states anyway

 

[VanceMack]

So we are clear here...the state of Oklahoma demands the right to prosecute a non-native child abuser in an environment where the tribal law has been lax, lenient, or otherwise refuses to prosecute offenders........

and leftists see this as a cause to attack the courts?

 

[Chomsky]

It demonstrates that there is no nefarious connection between this case and the overturning of Roe. SCOTUS had already decided that people can be prosecuted in US courts for what they do on reservations before they even heard Dobbs.

DENEZPRI specifically addresses double jeopardy.

CASTRO-HUERTA specific broadens states' prosecution on tribal lands, seemingly negating McGirt v. Oklahoma and it's precedences.

 

[Slartibartfast]

All the hypotheticals that get argued on this board would fill up an entire CT website!

I am sure you will continue to glom onto whatever their reasoning is to pretend that their rulings have legitimacy.

 

[Cope]

I am sure you will continue to glom onto whatever their reasoning is to pretend that their rulings have legitimacy.

I had to look up glom. "Stuck to ' Thanks for teaching me something today.

Let me return the favor, you don't know me, so please don't presume things you know nothing of.
As far as I know, I haven't glommed on to any reasoning but for you to pretend that the SCOTUS rulings have no legitimacy makes me laugh a bit.

I can just see you flouting the ruling to your detriment. All the way to jail.

 

[Slartibartfast]

I had to look up glom. "Stuck to ' Thanks for teaching me something today.

Let me return the favor, you don't know me, so please don't presume things you know nothing of.
As far as I know, I haven't glommed on to any reasoning but for you to pretend that the SCOTUS rulings have no legitimacy makes me laugh a bit.

I can just see you flouting the ruling to your detriment. All the way to jail.

I will do what is needed to get along in society, as people do, all the while working with people to fix society which I know will take decades at this point.

 

[VanceMack]

Just another in a long string of federal decisions to abuse First Peoples of America.

Do you have a ****ing clue what this case is even about?

 

[upsideguy]

Supreme Court rules Oklahoma can prosecute non-Natives who commit crimes on tribal lands

The opinion has the potential of redoing the court system not just in Oklahoma but in all 50 states.

www.axios.com

--

Fast on the heels of the Bruin (Roe) decision, the headline announcing this decision - above - immediately jumped-out at me, setting-off my 'ah-ha' detector!

It seems perhaps the Justices anticipate the theory where abortion, like gambling, might operate legally in the Native-American tribal areas that exist within states restricting abortion. The ruling above, would seem to possibly pro-actively preclude this jurisdictional loophole.

Is the above ruling & opinion merely coincidental? Am I seeing more here, than there is?

It is appearing as if we have an activist court comprised of activist judges. Isn't that what Cons railed against for two decades?

The history of regime change in two bit dictatorships is the right is replaced by a leftist dictator that ends up being far more corrupt and ruthless than his predecesor, only to eventually be replaced by right-wing dictator even far more corrupt and ruthless than he.

 

[VanceMack]

**** this Court.

Do you have a clue what you are upset over? this case involves the state of Oklahoma committing to prosecute a non native for child abuse...and you people are pissing yourselves without having the first ****ing clue why you are upset. You are all ****ing embarrassing yourselves.

 

[reinaert]

Do you have a clue what you are upset over? this case involves the state of Oklahoma committing to prosecute a non native for child abuse...and you people are pissing yourselves without having the first ****ing clue why you are upset. You are all ****ing embarrassing yourselves.

Cool. Let's ignore this Court overriding the 5N's recent sovereignty win.

 

[Napoleon]

DENEZPRI specifically addresses double jeopardy.

CASTRO-HUERTA specific broadens states' prosecution on tribal lands, seemingly negating McGirt v. Oklahoma and it's precedences.

Denezpri was equally about jurisdiction. But yes, this case is more-so about cleaning up the mess and chaos it created in McGirt by suddenly declaring almost all of Oklahoma to be Indian country.

No one was sure who had jurisdiction in Oklahoma since McGirt. The crime involved here was particularly heinous (he was starving his disabled daughter to death and she was discovered severely malnourished and covered in lice, cockroaches, and feces). The tribe didn’t do anything about it so the State of Oklahoma did.

Further complicating matters is the fact that the man is an unlawful resident and part of his sentence in Federal Court is deportation after 7 years imprisonment. So now we have an awkward situation where we have a crime in what is technically Indian country by judicial fiat, a tribe that doesn’t want to have anything to do with it, a State that doesn’t know if it can enforce its own laws anymore but wants to put the guy away for 35 years, and a Federal government that wants supremacy to lock the guy up for 7 years and then deport him. SCOTUS did this to itself.

I just don’t see how this case could have ended any other way. Cant have millions of American citizens running around what was, up until two years ago, the State of Oklahoma who are basically lawless unless some Indian snatches them and drags them into a tribal court.