Sally Mann photographs seized by Texas authorities (1 Viewer)

[iamwhatiseem]

You didn't ask a question.

Then you didn't read the post you quoted did you?

 

[countryboy]

Is this child pornography?

View attachment 67550118
An Allegory with Venus and Cupid (1545) Agnolo di Cosimo Bronzino

It could be argued it's more sexualized than Popsicle Drips.

It's a painting. Popsicle Drips is a staged closeup photograph of a repubescent boy's penis.

 

[Bok Tuklo]

Then you didn't read the post you quoted did you?

I did. There was no eroteme.

 

[Loulit01]

Strawman of the year award right here

You don't understand the term.

 

[j brown's body]

Answer the consent issue.
A child cannot give consent to have her nude photos displayed, again, kids grow up. Maybe she doesn't like the fact her photos were used like that.

Interesting article about her family. While the kids enjoy doing the photos, the artist shares your concern.

The Disturbing Photography of Sally Mann (Published 2015)

A mother's provocative portraits of her children raise confounding questions about the boundaries of art and the responsibilities of a parent. Meanwhile, the pictures can't be printed fast enough.

www.nytimes.com

 

[countryboy]

You guys censor books and words and now art.

Live and let live, baby.

Yes, conservative sensor pornographic material for children. We don't have a live and let live philosophy for the sexual grooming of young children.

 

[Allan]

It's a painting. Popsicle Drips is a staged closeup photograph of a repubescent boy's penis.

So if it's art it's ok?

 

[iamwhatiseem]

Interesting article about her family. While the kids enjoy doing the photos, the artist shares your concern.

The Disturbing Photography of Sally Mann (Published 2015)

A mother's provocative portraits of her children raise confounding questions about the boundaries of art and the responsibilities of a parent. Meanwhile, the pictures can't be printed fast enough.

www.nytimes.com

Oh - but wait - I thought I was a conservative, who had prurient interest? Finding sexualization where there wasn't any. - You said.
But - what's this?? The artist herself admits it........ GOSH!! She must be a Trump worshiping MAGA!!!!

 

[Allan]

Yes, conservative sensor pornographic material for children. We don't have a live and let live philosophy for the sexual grooming of young children.

What's your position on Matt Gaetz?

 

[Loulit01]

Family Pictures — Sally Mann

www.sallymann.com

Why Sally Mann’s Photographs of Her Children Can Still Make Viewers Uncomfortable

A series of vulnerable, intimate images caused a fierce debate in the early 1990s. How will audiences in 2017 respond to these bold photographs?

www.artsy.net

The one thing that's sure is that the controversy will mean a many, many, more people will see the pics than if left in the museum. Just like banning books increases sales.

 

[zincwarrior]

Interesting article about her family. While the kids enjoy doing the photos, the artist shares your concern.

The Disturbing Photography of Sally Mann (Published 2015)

A mother's provocative portraits of her children raise confounding questions about the boundaries of art and the responsibilities of a parent. Meanwhile, the pictures can't be printed fast enough.

www.nytimes.com

This article is an excellent read of some of the issues. I would suggest posters read it or at least a few pages of it and then comment further.

 

[countryboy]

So if it's art it's ok?

I didn't say that. I certainly wouldn't think that painting would be suitable for children to view. But there is a big difference between a painting and a staged photograph of a young boy's penis.

 

[Bok Tuklo]

Family Pictures — Sally Mann

www.sallymann.com

Why Sally Mann’s Photographs of Her Children Can Still Make Viewers Uncomfortable

A series of vulnerable, intimate images caused a fierce debate in the early 1990s. How will audiences in 2017 respond to these bold photographs?

www.artsy.net

The one thing that's sure is that the controversy will mean a many, many, more people will see the pics than if left in the museum. Just like banning books increases sales.

The Streisand Effect


Although I am not sure the censorious individuals care about more people seeing the works. If anything, they hope to whip up a moral panic with them.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

So if it's art it's ok?

Was the film "Cuties" art that made it okay?
People got angry about it, Netflix took it out of all of their list in response.
Some people, like here, was calling out those that had a problem with it. RIGHTWING OUTRAGE!!! GRRRR!!!!
But wait - well damn - the producer of Cuties admitted in a foreign interview that she was attracted to children.
And the film is not only sexualizing children - it is hyper sexualization of children.
Go ahead and search YouTube for 'Cuties stairway scene" and tell me that is not sexual.

 

[Allan]

I didn't say that. I certainly wouldn't think that painting would be suitable for children to view. But there is a big difference between a painting and a staged photograph of a young boy's penis.

Would The Perfect Tomato be ok as a painting?

 

[j brown's body]

Was the film "Cuties" art that made it okay?
People got angry about it, Netflix took it out of all of their list in response.
Some people, like here, was calling out those that had a problem with it. RIGHTWING OUTRAGE!!! GRRRR!!!!
But wait - well damn - the producer of Cuties admitted in a foreign interview that she was attracted to children.
And the film is not only sexualizing children - it is hyper sexualization of children.
Go ahead and search YouTube for 'Cuties stairway scene" and tell me that is not sexual.

The girls on the stairs are doing what they see women do in videos all the time. They are mimicking women, trying to be grown-up. They are sexualizing themselves because that's what our culture does to women, and they want to be women. That's the point. Its an indictment of culture.

I saw a scene very similar to this in the streaming show Pen15, about middle school girls. Its what they do.

 

[j brown's body]

That is obviously sexual, in that no children do that. It is staged.
But, no, it is not the photograph. That one is tame compared to the others.

Its staged, but I see no effort to appeal to prurient interests.

 

[Boots]

Perhaps we take from art what we see in it. I did not see anything sexual. I saw my own childhood.

As an aside, do you think if they were pictures of children in Africa in the same state of undress going about their lives, would it get the same reaction?

I only saw the Tomato picture, so I can't judge. I was speaking to the artist's viewpoint that she is attempting to depict not just hard scrabble but sensuality. That is what I focused on, the intent, not necessarily the effect. If it is true that the fruit on the table is apple, not tomato, I wonder why the artist chose the title.

 

[Boots]

Why would it need to be excessive to make it sexual?

The word excessive wasn't in the response you replied to. Why did you use it?

 

[mrjurrs]

Sally Mann photographs seized by Texas authorities​

Police in Fort Worth, Texas have seized and ‘secured as potential evidence’ several photographs by Sally Mann on display at the Modern Art Museum of Fort Worth. The intervention follows a complaint, made on 26 December by Tarrant County Judge Tim O’Hare in the Dallas Express, calling for a criminal investigation.

Among the works in the exhibition Diaries of Home, which opened on 17 November 2024, The Perfect Tomato (1990) and Popsicle Drips (1985) feature nude portraits of children that residents have likened to ‘pedophilia’ and ‘child rape’.

Born in Lexington, Virginia in 1951, Sally Mann is a Guggenheim fellow and three-time recipient of the National Endowment for the Arts fellowship. In 2001, she was named ‘America’s Best Photographer’ by Time magazine.

The group show Diaries of Home features the works of 13 women and nonbinary artists exploring the ‘multilayered concepts of family, community, and home’ through documentary photography. The museum warns that the exhibition ‘features mature themes that may be sensitive for some viewers’. In their reporting, The Dallas Express referenced the exhibition’s ‘pictures of naked children and LGBTQ+ content’.

Writing to Artnet News in response to the controversy Julie Trébault, executive director of Artists at Risk Coalition (ARC) warned of ‘legislative attacks on LGBTQ+ content, threats to public funding, and public campaigns that mischaracterize art as obscene or harmful… This growing wave of censorship, which disproportionately targets women, LGBTQ+ creators, and artists from historically marginalized groups, often relies on the construction of a controversy as pretext for a wider purge of targeted artwork’.

ArtReview

****************************************************************************

I have seen the exhibit. If you looked at those pictures and were titillated, that is a you problem. They are grubby rural kids doing rural kid shit.

You can find links to the photographs in question at the Fort Worth Modern Art Museum website.

If those dang liberals would stop interfering with our free speech!

Oh, these aren't liberals?

 

[Boots]

Perhaps we take from art what we see in it. I did not see anything sexual. I saw my own childhood.

Well, Sally Mann purposely wanted us to see something sexual and/or dark in the pictures. She staged them that way. I flipped through a few more of them. I am not a fan. Although I liked Emily Dickinson dark poetry when I was young (I have not re-read it in a long long time), I do not like the darkness of these staged photographs.
While I tend to be drawn to dark photographs that are documentary (not staged), I don't like this.

As an aside, do you think if they were pictures of children in Africa in the same state of undress going about their lives, would it get the same reaction?

I don't think I've seen African children going about their lives while dancing naked on a table strewn with fruit in a semi provocative manner. If someone staged African children like that perhaps it would get the same reaction.

I haven't decided yet if I deem her pictures pornography or not. I have decided that despite her obvious talent with photography, I'm not a fan.

 

[holbritter]

Sally Mann photographs seized by Texas authorities​

Police in Fort Worth, Texas have seized and ‘secured as potential evidence’ several photographs by Sally Mann on display at the Modern Art Museum of Fort Worth. The intervention follows a complaint, made on 26 December by Tarrant County Judge Tim O’Hare in the Dallas Express, calling for a criminal investigation.

Among the works in the exhibition Diaries of Home, which opened on 17 November 2024, The Perfect Tomato (1990) and Popsicle Drips (1985) feature nude portraits of children that residents have likened to ‘pedophilia’ and ‘child rape’.

Born in Lexington, Virginia in 1951, Sally Mann is a Guggenheim fellow and three-time recipient of the National Endowment for the Arts fellowship. In 2001, she was named ‘America’s Best Photographer’ by Time magazine.

The group show Diaries of Home features the works of 13 women and nonbinary artists exploring the ‘multilayered concepts of family, community, and home’ through documentary photography. The museum warns that the exhibition ‘features mature themes that may be sensitive for some viewers’. In their reporting, The Dallas Express referenced the exhibition’s ‘pictures of naked children and LGBTQ+ content’.

Writing to Artnet News in response to the controversy Julie Trébault, executive director of Artists at Risk Coalition (ARC) warned of ‘legislative attacks on LGBTQ+ content, threats to public funding, and public campaigns that mischaracterize art as obscene or harmful… This growing wave of censorship, which disproportionately targets women, LGBTQ+ creators, and artists from historically marginalized groups, often relies on the construction of a controversy as pretext for a wider purge of targeted artwork’.

ArtReview

****************************************************************************

I have seen the exhibit. If you looked at those pictures and were titillated, that is a you problem. They are grubby rural kids doing rural kid shit.

You can find links to the photographs in question at the Fort Worth Modern Art Museum website.

I checked the website, and if they are the only photos displayed, I agree. Where in the world do you see 'child rape'?? There is NO photo of a naked child either.

Edit: Ok, saw some of the rest. Not a fan, in fact I think the one described above with a naked child laying across the lap of a naked man is disturbing, but I don't have to go see it either.

 

[Luce]

If they are photographs and not drawn images, she is in fact busted.

 

[countryboy]

I checked the website, and if they are the only photos displayed, I agree. Where in the world do you see 'child rape'?? There is NO photo of a naked child either.

Popsicle Drips is a photo of a naked child.

 

[holbritter]

Mann in a 2015 article in the New York Times Magazine addressed the controversy that has attended her practice. “All too often, nudity, even that of children, is mistaken for sexuality, and images are mistaken for actions,” she wrote. “The image of the child is especially subject to that kind of perceptual dislocation; children are not just the innocents that we expect them to be. . . . But in a culture so deeply invested in a cult of childhood innocence, we are understandably reluctant to acknowledge these discordant aspects or, as I found out, even fictionalized depictions of them.”"

Link

Go ahead and have those photos in your home. See if the cops/DA/judge/jury agree.