S Korea eager to build aircraft carrier as Asia Pacific tension rises. the next step annexation of Kamchatka?

[Oozlefinch]

“They should call it a designation used for amphibious assault ships. I see no difference other than it can’t carry out an amphibious assault.” You see how absurd that it on its face?

They’d be modern CVL’s. They’re going to carry nearly as many aircraft as WW2 CVL’s when you count their helicopter compliment along side the VTOL fighters.

And even if they do carry fewer, arguing that means they don’t count as CVL’s because of it is as absurd as claiming modern cruisers don’t count as cruisers because they don’t have 6 to 8 inch guns.

Not at all. Now I am going to address this backwards.

Modern Cruisers are still Cruisers, as they are the strongest surface combatant we have, and is mostly for use against land targets and other capitol ships. They use missiles instead of guns now, but that is their strike capability.

Cruiser Carriers are the same way. Just enough fighters to have a CAP overhead, it is not intended for strike missions. It uses its missiles for that.

LPH and other ships (like this one) are similar to the Carrier Cruiser, but have no offensive weapons on board. Just enough fighters to give itself air cover during movement, not to send them off on strike missions.

A real Aircraft Carrier however, that is its entire purpose. To not only provide air cover to the fleet, but also to have several dozen fighters to conduct offensive strike missions.

And finally, Helicopters are not any kind of "Combat Aircraft" at all in a naval setting. They at most are used to hunt submarines, which is really a defensive operation. Just like the small number of fighters like this would be. They do not attack other ships. At most, an LPH will have some Sea Cobras on board, but those are only for use in assisting the Marines when they make a landing. Otherwise, they have no other place on the ship.

Combat Ships are primarily classified by what they have that can be used on combat. Destroyers and Frigates are defensive ships, primarily for use in defending the fleet. Cruisers are primarily offensive ships, intended to attack other ships and land targets. Carriers have a large number of aircraft, and use those to conduct offensive operations against land targets and other ships.

LPH, LSD, and all the others often have aircraft, but at most for defensive purposes. Unless they land Marines on a beach, at which point they are tasked with supporting those Marines as those actually are their aircraft. They only act as a CAP until they meet up with the Carriers when they are close to their destination. At that point CAP is taken over by the carrier, and only then do they go to a ground attack configuration.

It is not even a CVL, because it lacks the number of fighters to do anything other than provide it's own CAP. They would be more impressive to be honest if they followed what the Russians did and just make Cruiser Carriers.

A normal CAP is 6 aircraft, this has 12. That means in reality, this will have 3-4 fighters as CAP, in 4 shifts to allow for pilot rest and maintenance. That is not even close to enough to be able to do both jobs at once.

 

[Questerr]

Not at all. Now I am going to address this backwards.

Modern Cruisers are still Cruisers, as they are the strongest surface combatant we have, and is mostly for use against land targets and other capitol ships. They use missiles instead of guns now, but that is their strike capability.

Cruiser Carriers are the same way. Just enough fighters to have a CAP overhead, it is not intended for strike missions. It uses its missiles for that.

LPH and other ships (like this one) are similar to the Carrier Cruiser, but have no offensive weapons on board. Just enough fighters to give itself air cover during movement, not to send them off on strike missions.

A real Aircraft Carrier however, that is its entire purpose. To not only provide air cover to the fleet, but also to have several dozen fighters to conduct offensive strike missions.

And finally, Helicopters are not any kind of "Combat Aircraft" at all in a naval setting. They at most are used to hunt submarines, which is really a defensive operation. Just like the small number of fighters like this would be. They do not attack other ships. At most, an LPH will have some Sea Cobras on board, but those are only for use in assisting the Marines when they make a landing. Otherwise, they have no other place on the ship.

Combat Ships are primarily classified by what they have that can be used on combat. Destroyers and Frigates are defensive ships, primarily for use in defending the fleet. Cruisers are primarily offensive ships, intended to attack other ships and land targets. Carriers have a large number of aircraft, and use those to conduct offensive operations against land targets and other ships.

LPH, LSD, and all the others often have aircraft, but at most for defensive purposes. Unless they land Marines on a beach, at which point they are tasked with supporting those Marines as those actually are their aircraft. They only act as a CAP until they meet up with the Carriers when they are close to their destination. At that point CAP is taken over by the carrier, and only then do they go to a ground attack configuration.

It is not even a CVL, because it lacks the number of fighters to do anything other than provide it's own CAP. They would be more impressive to be honest if they followed what the Russians did and just make Cruiser Carriers.

A normal CAP is 6 aircraft, this has 12. That means in reality, this will have 3-4 fighters as CAP, in 4 shifts to allow for pilot rest and maintenance. That is not even close to enough to be able to do both jobs at once.

You realize most naval helicopters, especially outside the US, have naval strike capability and can carry anti-ship missiles, yes? They most definitely count as combat aircraft.

It’s essentially the same design as the Spanish Principe de Asturias, which is classified as, guess what, a Light Aircraft carrier.

 

[Oozlefinch]

You realize most naval helicopters, especially outside the US, have naval strike capability and can carry anti-ship missiles, yes? They most definitely count as combat aircraft.

Yes, the US helicopters can carry the Penguin missile. Once again, in a defensive role. Just like its ASW role. That is not "Naval Strike".

Guess what the lifespan is of such a helicopter if it tries going out in an offensive attack against a ship? It will not even get close enough to launch before it is shot down. Like the Penguin MK2 missile, range of 34 kilometers and intended as a last ditch defense in the event small boats manage to make their way inside of the defensive perimeter of a fleet.

Once again, it is more than just the fact it can carry missiles, it is the role of the aircraft and missiles.

 

[Questerr]

Yes, the US helicopters can carry the Penguin missile. Once again, in a defensive role. Just like its ASW role. That is not "Naval Strike".

Guess what the lifespan is of such a helicopter if it tries going out in an offensive attack against a ship? It will not even get close enough to launch before it is shot down. Like the Penguin MK2 missile, range of 34 kilometers and intended as a last ditch defense in the event small boats manage to make their way inside of the defensive perimeter of a fleet.

Once again, it is more than just the fact it can carry missiles, it is the role of the aircraft and missiles.

34 kilometers is just over the horizon for a helicopter approaching a ship from wave top level. Pop up, launch a volley of missiles, drop back down and but out before the ship can fire back/while it’s too busy dealing with your incoming missiles.

And with multiple helicopters, you have the potential to conduct these wave top pop-up attacks from multiple directions at once.

 

[Oozlefinch]

34 kilometers is just over the horizon for a helicopter approaching a ship from wave top level. Pop up, launch a volley of missiles, drop back down and but out before the ship can fire back/while it’s too busy dealing with your incoming missiles.

And with multiple helicopters, you have the potential to conduct these wave top pop-up attacks from multiple directions at once.

What?

Each A/N-SPS-49 on an Aegis class ship can track hundreds of targets. And the systems and crews that are going to be shooting down those missiles are not the same ones going after the helicopters. The Offensive Systems Operators are going to be free to engage them and not be distracted, as the Defensive System Operators are dealing with the missiles.

And you are forgetting one very important thing.

Wave top height is not much of a factor with these bad boys in the air.

It is a lot harder to sneak up on a fleet of ships than you think. Plus although submarines would be of little use defensively, they also have Electronics Gathering systems that would have a good chance to detect them unless they are somehow able to maintain absolute radio silence on both the approach, as well as somehow coordinating this attack from multiple directions.

Sounds like you are trying to organize a WWII era battle, against modern systems and equipment.

 

[Litwin]

Russia would nuke South Korea before they gave up Kamchatka.

by badly outdated, at least 30 years old sovok´s nukes ? good luck with this

sovok - Wiktionary, the free dictionary

en.wiktionary.org

 

[Fledermaus]

by badly outdated, at least 30 years old sovok´s nukes ? good luck with this

sovok - Wiktionary, the free dictionary

en.wiktionary.org

You keep saying this silly an inaccurate statement.

Why?

RUSSIA has updated their nuclear arsenal.

 

[Litwin]

...

...has updated their nuclear arsenal.

in the same way Moscow updated their tank arsenal....



stop promote here your fav. TV.ru narratives here , we free men dont buy it ...

 

[Fledermaus]

in the same way Moscow updated their tank arsenal....



stop promote here your fav. TV.ru narratives here , we free men dont buy it ...

Nukes aren't tanks Litwin.

You keep saying that silly and inaccurate statement.

Why?

RUSSIA has updated their nuclear arsenal.

 

[Questerr]

What?

Each A/N-SPS-49 on an Aegis class ship can track hundreds of targets. And the systems and crews that are going to be shooting down those missiles are not the same ones going after the helicopters. The Offensive Systems Operators are going to be free to engage them and not be distracted, as the Defensive System Operators are dealing with the missiles.

And you are forgetting one very important thing.

Wave top height is not much of a factor with these bad boys in the air.

It is a lot harder to sneak up on a fleet of ships than you think. Plus although submarines would be of little use defensively, they also have Electronics Gathering systems that would have a good chance to detect them unless they are somehow able to maintain absolute radio silence on both the approach, as well as somehow coordinating this attack from multiple directions.

Sounds like you are trying to organize a WWII era battle, against modern systems and equipment.

Is this South Korean light carrier going to be fighting against US carrier groups? If not, why are you bringing up AEGIS or E-2’s?

 

[Questerr]

by badly outdated, at least 30 years old sovok´s nukes ? good luck with this

sovok - Wiktionary, the free dictionary

en.wiktionary.org

Where is your evidence those nukes won’t work?

 

[Litwin]

Where is your evidence those nukes won’t work?

Where is your evidence those (old , outdated, more than 30 years old ussr) nukes do work?

I spoke with a nuke expert 2 years ago , Moscow exploits the fact that it can not be proved

 

[Questerr]

Where is your evidence those (old , outdated, more than 30 years old ussr) nukes do work?

I spoke with a nuke expert 2 years ago , Moscow exploits the fact that it can not be proved

So the guy who constantly lies about Russia claims to have spoken to a “nuke expert”? Why should anyone believe you?

 

[Litwin]

So the guy who constantly lies about Russia claims to have spoken to a “nuke expert”? Why should anyone believe you?

I dont lie , I inform the free world about Moscow´s evil nature , whats really funny here, that our radical - left is in love with Moscow , do you know that Moscow´s KPSS is dead, and Moscow empire has the World's Most Unequal Economy ?

"

Moscow has the world’s highest levels of wealth inequality, surpassing .... China, the Credit Suisse Research Institute’s annual review has said.
An estimated 83% of Russia’s wealth is now owned by its richest decile despite the country’s modest average wealth, the financial services company said in its report published Monday.
"

Russia Named World’s Most Unequal Economy - The Moscow Times

Russia has the world’s highest levels of wealth inequality, surpassing the United States and China, the Credit Suisse Research Institute’s annual review has said.

www.themoscowtimes.com

 

[Questerr]

I dont lie , I inform the free world about Moscow´s evil nature , whats really funny here, that our radical - left is in love with Moscow , do you know that Moscow´s KPSS is dead, and Moscow empire has the World's Most Unequal Economy ?

"

Moscow has the world’s highest levels of wealth inequality, surpassing .... China, the Credit Suisse Research Institute’s annual review has said.
An estimated 83% of Russia’s wealth is now owned by its richest decile despite the country’s modest average wealth, the financial services company said in its report published Monday.
"

Russia Named World’s Most Unequal Economy - The Moscow Times

Russia has the world’s highest levels of wealth inequality, surpassing the United States and China, the Credit Suisse Research Institute’s annual review has said.

www.themoscowtimes.com

Except you do lie. Every time you claim the nation “Muscovy” exists, or call Russians “mongols” or “juchis”, you are lying.

 

[Litwin]

Except you do lie. Every time you claim the nation “Muscovy” exists, or call Russians “mongols” or “juchis”, you are lying.

really ?

the WSJ lies to ?

 

[Questerr]

really ?

the WSJ lies to ?

Yeah, in this case they do.

 

[Fledermaus]

Where is your evidence those (old , outdated, more than 30 years old ussr) nukes do work?

I spoke with a nuke expert 2 years ago , Moscow exploits the fact that it can not be proved

I raise the BS flag on this one.

 

[Fledermaus]

I dont lie , I inform the free world about Moscow´s evil nature , whats really funny here, that our radical - left is in love with Moscow , do you know that Moscow´s KPSS is dead, and Moscow empire has the World's Most Unequal Economy ?

"

Moscow has the world’s highest levels of wealth inequality, surpassing .... China, the Credit Suisse Research Institute’s annual review has said.
An estimated 83% of Russia’s wealth is now owned by its richest decile despite the country’s modest average wealth, the financial services company said in its report published Monday.
"

Russia Named World’s Most Unequal Economy - The Moscow Times

Russia has the world’s highest levels of wealth inequality, surpassing the United States and China, the Credit Suisse Research Institute’s annual review has said.

www.themoscowtimes.com

You have lied over and over again.

And when you aren't lying you inject irrelevant videos or photos.

Nothing in this post has anything to do with the thread or the discussion.

 

[Fledermaus]

really ?

the WSJ lies to ?

Russia defeated the Ulu of Juchi.

Every time you use the word "Juchi" in reference to modern day Russia you are lying.

Muscovy hasn't existed as a country for centuries. RUSSIA arose from Muscovy and absorbed the remaining Kievian Rus. Fact.

Mongols control Mongolia. Not Russia.

Russia is CHRISTIAN. Every time you call Russia "semi-Muslim" you are lying.

 

[Litwin]

Yeah, in this case they do.

Halperin has demonstrated that Muscovy and other principalities were deeply familiar with Tatar politics and society. Muscovy princes, nobles, clergy, and merchants visited often. Muscovy rulers and clerics had to be expert in Chingisid dynastics as a condition of their power. They invoked the Chingisid principle when it was to their diplomatic advantage, and could not help but be impressed by earlier Mongol success in forging an empire. The Muscovy adapted many institutions, including the jam (postal network), tamga (tribute system), kazna (financial or budgetary system), organization of the field army, diplomatic etiquette and procedures, and bureaucratic organization.

 

[Questerr]

Halperin has demonstrated that Muscovy and other principalities were deeply familiar with Tatar politics and society. Muscovy princes, nobles, clergy, and merchants visited often. Muscovy rulers and clerics had to be expert in Chingisid dynastics as a condition of their power. They invoked the Chingisid principle when it was to their diplomatic advantage, and could not help but be impressed by earlier Mongol success in forging an empire. The Muscovy adapted many institutions, including the jam (postal network), tamga (tribute system), kazna (financial or budgetary system), organization of the field army, diplomatic etiquette and procedures, and bureaucratic organization.

The Romans adopted many institutions from the Greeks and Persians. Would it be true to call the Romans "the Greek Empire"? No, it wouldn't.

Muscovy hasn't existed for nearly a thousand years.

 

[Tigerace117]

by badly outdated, at least 30 years old sovok´s nukes ? good luck with this

sovok - Wiktionary, the free dictionary

en.wiktionary.org

The Russian nukes still work just fine.

Which is why your hairbrained plan is such a joke.

 

[Litwin]

The Romans adopted many institutions from the Greeks and Persians. Would it be true to call the Romans "the Greek Empire"? No, it wouldn't.

Muscovy hasn't existed for nearly a thousand years.

will you trust (on this subject ) the words of your (ideology ) spiritual father ?

 

[Fledermaus]

Halperin has demonstrated that Muscovy and other principalities were deeply familiar with Tatar politics and society. Muscovy princes, nobles, clergy, and merchants visited often. Muscovy rulers and clerics had to be expert in Chingisid dynastics as a condition of their power. They invoked the Chingisid principle when it was to their diplomatic advantage, and could not help but be impressed by earlier Mongol success in forging an empire. The Muscovy adapted many institutions, including the jam (postal network), tamga (tribute system), kazna (financial or budgetary system), organization of the field army, diplomatic etiquette and procedures, and bureaucratic organization.

None of which has a damned thing to do with modern day RUSSIA.