Ryan Plan: Take from the POOR and give to the RICH???[W:97]

[lpast]

Re: Ryan Plan: Take from the POOR and give to the RICH???

why does the concept of profit cause such massive hand wringing and garment soiling among the moon bat left?

Because of Profit like 140.00 pair of nikes with two 1 inch by 4 inch strips of leather the rest foam and vynil made by chinese munchkins for 50cts an hour so some pig can make lots of profit...for just one reason

 

[hazlnut]

Re: Ryan Plan: Take from the POOR and give to the RICH???

the rich pay most of the taxes, the top 5% pay more than the rest of the country combined when it comes to income and death taxes.

its time the rest of the country paid at least their share of the income tax

Your definition of "fair share" disregards everything we were taught in micro and macro economics.

 

[NateNY3]

Re: Ryan Plan: Take from the POOR and give to the RICH???

Your definition of "fair share" disregards everything we were taught in micro and macro economics.

yet it seems like the only thing they taught him in paralegal school...

 

[Vallista]

Re: Ryan Plan: Take from the POOR and give to the RICH???

Republicans are always trying to give tax money to the rich. I don't see how trust fund kids, wall street guys, or hedge funds are considered job creators? In less someone wants to tell me how? Yes the rich does get richer.

 

[Mycroft]

Re: Ryan Plan: Take from the POOR and give to the RICH???

Republicans are always trying to give tax money to the rich. I don't see how trust fund kids, wall street guys, or hedge funds are considered job creators? In less someone wants to tell me how? Yes the rich does get richer.

I don't know very much at all about high finances, but I get the impression that you think those you've mentioned above just put their riches in a mattress...or maybe in a vault like Scrooge McDuck. I highly doubt that is the case. That means those riches are being put to SOME use. Can you enlighten me as to what those uses might be?

 

[NateNY3]

Re: Ryan Plan: Take from the POOR and give to the RICH???

I don't know very much at all about high finances, but I get the impression that you think those you've mentioned above just put their riches in a mattress...or maybe in a vault like Scrooge McDuck. I highly doubt that is the case. That means those riches are being put to SOME use. Can you enlighten me as to what those uses might be?

Lot's of things...lending, arbitrage, equities, CMBS, Real Estate, Foreign investments, Commodities etc...the mattresses have been full for ages, no more room...

 

[johnny_rebson]

Re: Ryan Plan: Take from the POOR and give to the RICH???

Trickle Down Economics Theory and Effect
I was talking about the trickle down economic theory..you know the one where cutting taxes on the rich somehow benefits those on the bottom

So you don't understand how job creation works?

 

[Bronson]

Re: Ryan Plan: Take from the POOR and give to the RICH???

Obama's Plan - Let Medicare die in 11 years

Obama's Plan - Steal 700B from the seniors who have paid into Medicare their entire lives to re-distribute among those who have contributed nothing

Obama's Plan - IPAB

IPAB, Obama, and Socialism - By Stanley Kurtz - The Corner - National Review Online

In his speech on the deficit, Obama pointed to IPAB as an answer to Paul Ryan’s plan. In Ryan’s vision, competition among insurers will force efficiencies and lower prices. Under Obama’s plan, in contrast, health-care prices for the elderly would be controlled by IPAB. Ryan’s plan puts consumers in the driver’s seat, but also exposes them to the risk of bad choices and limited subsidies. While Obama’s plan offers government-guaranteed care, IPAB’s price controls will lead to one-size-fits-all rationing. As IPAB caps Medicare payments for various services, the elderly will be unable to obtain many kinds of care, or will experience de facto rationing via long treatment delays and sharp declines in the quality of care. And by the way, IPAB rationing will hit many current seniors, whereas Ryan’s reform of Medicare will never affect anyone now 55 or older.

The second part of the plan involves IPAB-imposed price controls and the large-scale rationing of health care that implies. But to work, IPAB’s authority has got to extend beyond Medicare. The idea, says Capretta, is to wait until the massive financial strains brought on by Obamacare bring calls for cost control. That’s when the Democrats will push for IPAB’s authority to be extended beyond Medicare to all of Obamacare, at which point we’ll be very close to a single-payer health-care system with Canadian-style rationing.

 

[Masada]

Re: Ryan Plan: Take from the POOR and give to the RICH???

I really just don't this mind set. Are you telling me you know business owners, with high demand for their goods or services, that AREN'T hiring people to fulfill those goods and/or services because their costs MIGHT go up? Doesn't that seem a bit ridiculous to you? Those clients aren't going to wait around until you decide to produce them, they'll simply go somewhere else, to someone willing to take a little less in profits.

I have less than 50 employees so I don't see my health insurance plan going up too drastically. If my taxes go up by 4%, it's not going to change anything about how I do business.

"Might" go up? The operating cost to produce oil and gas has gone up remarkably. Despite $97 per barrel crude. Over the past decade, the profit margins of oil an gas companies has fallen from 12% to 7%, despite record oil prices. How's that possible? Regulations and taxes.

Yes, I do know of businesses who are waiting to hire. They are waiting to see what happens with the Bush tax cuts, Obamacare's full implementation, and the regulatory environment of all of Obama's agencies that are eager to slap corporations with even more taxes and regulations.

If you don't see over regulation and taxation as impediments to economic growth, I don't know what to tell you. One party is about economic freedom, while the other seeks to manipulate success and steer it towards groups that support them politically. Like Obama did in GM. Like Solyndra. Like Goldman Sachs.

The lie of the left is that Conservatives oppose all regulations and taxes, and that's not true either. I oppose a government over taxing one portion of society to fund another portion of society, when that portion isn't paying jack ****t. Before we tax te rich more, who is already paying the lions share of taxes, how about we ask those Americans paying nothing to pay a little? I also oppose paying a dime more in taxes than is required of me to a government that wastes over 30 cents out of every dollar I pay in, and borrows another 53 cents out of every dollar it spends. Leaving about 15 cents out of every dollar the government gets it's hands on that is actually utilized effectively.

If you think you're some smart business man, why on Earth would you invest more tax dollars in the government? They waste more than they use. They borrow more than they save. They promise more than they an ever pay. And they don't produce anything!! But by all means, let's allow them to confiscate even more money for them to waste.

 

[NateNY3]

Re: Ryan Plan: Take from the POOR and give to the RICH???

"Might" go up? The operating cost to produce oil and gas has gone up remarkably. Despite $97 per barrel crude. Over the past decade, the profit margins of oil an gas companies has fallen from 12% to 7%, despite record oil prices. How's that possible? Regulations and taxes.

Yes, I do know of businesses who are waiting to hire. They are waiting to see what happens with the Bush tax cuts, Obamacare's full implementation, and the regulatory environment of all of Obama's agencies that are eager to slap corporations with even more taxes and regulations.

If you don't see over regulation and taxation as impediments to economic growth, I don't know what to tell you. One party is about economic freedom, while the other seeks to manipulate success and steer it towards groups that support them politically. Like Obama did in GM. Like Solyndra. Like Goldman Sachs.

The lie of the left is that Conservatives oppose all regulations and taxes, and that's not true either. I oppose a government over taxing one portion of society to fund another portion of society, when that portion isn't paying jack ****t. Before we tax te rich more, who is already paying the lions share of taxes, how about we ask those Americans paying nothing to pay a little? I also oppose paying a dime more in taxes than is required of me to a government that wastes over 30 cents out of every dollar I pay in, and borrows another 53 cents out of every dollar it spends. Leaving about 15 cents out of every dollar the government gets it's hands on that is actually utilized effectively.

If you think you're some smart business man, why on Earth would you invest more tax dollars in the government? They waste more than they use. They borrow more than they save. They promise more than they an ever pay. And they don't produce anything!! But by all means, let's allow them to confiscate even more money for them to waste.

I'm not sure if you're answering my question or ignoring it so I'll ask again for clarification.

Are you telling me you know business owners, with high demand for their goods or services, that AREN'T hiring people to fulfill those goods and/or services because their costs MIGHT go up?

I actually wouldn't have a problem paying 4% more in taxes. It wouldn't change my lifestyle. (Please don't tell me I can send a check every year if I want. I'm aware that that's an option.) And no, I wouldn't ask those who by law are not paying, to pay more so I can pay less.

Do I agree that there is an incredible amount of waste and fraud in out gov't? absolutely! Would I like to see that change? absolutely! Do I honestly believe either party REALLY want's to change that? ABSOLUTELY NOT!!!

 

[Mycroft]

Re: Ryan Plan: Take from the POOR and give to the RICH???

Lot's of things...lending, arbitrage, equities, CMBS, Real Estate, Foreign investments, Commodities etc...the mattresses have been full for ages, no more room...

Okay.

So what affect has all of these uses had on the...world economy, I guess? Is there a possibility that some number of people have gained jobs? A better standard of living? That some innovator received the money they needed to make their innovations a reality?

Could it be that those with attitudes like Vallista are not willing to consider the answers to my questions because it invalidates their dislike of rich people?

 

[Vallista]

Re: Ryan Plan: Take from the POOR and give to the RICH???

I don't know very much at all about high finances, but I get the impression that you think those you've mentioned above just put their riches in a mattress...or maybe in a vault like Scrooge McDuck. I highly doubt that is the case. That means those riches are being put to SOME use. Can you enlighten me as to what those uses might be?

I don't have enough time in the world.

 

[Vallista]

Re: Ryan Plan: Take from the POOR and give to the RICH???

Okay.

So what affect has all of these uses had on the...world economy, I guess? Is there a possibility that some number of people have gained jobs? A better standard of living? That some innovator received the money they needed to make their innovations a reality?

Could it be that those with attitudes like Vallista are not willing to consider the answers to my questions because it invalidates their dislike of rich people?

I'm sorry, the rich rigged the system. In true capitalism the market would rule, however, that is not the case. we could look at every industry in the us and the game is rigged. The abuse of our labor force is the most glaring thing. Wages are suppress and rights stripped from blue collar workers, while profits raise for corps. Reducing taxes for the wealth and claiming it will help job creation. Please explain that to me again?

 

[Mycroft]

Re: Ryan Plan: Take from the POOR and give to the RICH???

I'm sorry, the rich rigged the system. In true capitalism the market would rule, however, that is not the case. we could look at every industry in the us and the game is rigged. The abuse of our labor force is the most glaring thing. Wages are suppress and rights stripped from blue collar workers, while profits raise for corps. Reducing taxes for the wealth and claiming it will help job creation. Please explain that to me again?

Yes...thank you. You've answered the last question I posed in the affirmative.

 

[iguanaman]

Re: Ryan Plan: Take from the POOR and give to the RICH???

why does the concept of profit cause such massive hand wringing and garment soiling among the moon bat left?

Come on...it is an easy question. Where do company profits come from?

 

[iguanaman]

Re: Ryan Plan: Take from the POOR and give to the RICH???

I'm sorry, the rich rigged the system. In true capitalism the market would rule, however, that is not the case. we could look at every industry in the us and the game is rigged. The abuse of our labor force is the most glaring thing. Wages are suppress and rights stripped from blue collar workers, while profits raise for corps. Reducing taxes for the wealth and claiming it will help job creation. Please explain that to me again?

It is what comes from letting markets and Corporations regulate themselves. Another of the great Republican ideas that Romney vows to double down on.
Banks neve failed while the regulations from the 1930's were in place, yet Republicans claim to hate the bailouts. They caused the bailouts to happen and now they want to let it happen again. And it will until those regs are replaced. Bankers have proven they can't help themselves, greed will bring us all to the brink again if they aren't stopped.

 

[Bobcat]

Re: Ryan Plan: Take from the POOR and give to the RICH???

Come on...it is an easy question. Where do company profits come from?

Profit is generated when income exceeds expenses. Profits come from a well managed business. Labor, raw material, and utilities are expenses, sales is revenue or income.

Your premise that profits "come from" customers or employees is fatally flawed.

 

[Bobcat]

Re: Ryan Plan: Take from the POOR and give to the RICH???

It is what comes from letting markets and Corporations regulate themselves. Another of the great Republican ideas that Romney vows to double down on.
Banks neve failed while the regulations from the 1930's were in place, yet Republicans claim to hate the bailouts. They caused the bailouts to happen and now they want to let it happen again. And it will until those regs are replaced. Bankers have proven they can't help themselves, greed will bring us all to the brink again if they aren't stopped.

which party has controlled congress for most of the last 85 years? To claim that all the bad decisions were made by republicans is just ignorant.

 

[TurtleDude]

Re: Ryan Plan: Take from the POOR and give to the RICH???

Do poor people create jobs? Then why do they deserve tax cuts?

they don't tend to pay the taxes that were cut. Those in the bottom 20% pay negative taxes. I am all in favor of cutting those rates

 

[TurtleDude]

Re: Ryan Plan: Take from the POOR and give to the RICH???

which party has controlled congress for most of the last 85 years? To claim that all the bad decisions were made by republicans is just ignorant.

and what party created the new deal legislation that blew away the limits on the federal government? sure wasn't the GOP

 

[Billy the Kid]

Who cares about Ryan's plan? It's not going to be enacted and Romney hasn't endorsed it. It's a non-issue.

Unless you want to be a hysterical demagogue, that is.

:applaud

Short, sweet and to the point.

 

[The Barbarian]

Re: Ryan Plan: Take from the POOR and give to the RICH???

Ryan wants to cut welfare, social security, medicare/medicaid, etc (all things that I support to some degree) while at the same time giving subsidities to the big oil companies (which I disagree with)



I'm talking about Ryan giving subsidities to the big Oil companies! I thought he was against entitlements!

I keep hearing of these oil subsidies over and over again … and I just wonder if anyone has ever decided
it was worth their time to find out what are considered oil subsidies ??

I’ve done a quick search and what I’ve learned in that in the US we give 4.5 billion in so called subsidies.
I say so called because here is a few things that are considered subsidies


1) The single largest expenditure is just over $1 billion for the Strategic Petroleum Reserve,
which is designed to protect the U.S. from oil shortages.


2) The second largest category is just under $1 billion in tax exemptions for farm fuel.


3) The third largest category? $570 million for the Low-Income Home Energy Assistance Program.


This was just a quick search ... and it amounts to 2.5 billion of the subsidies every one is talking about
anyone here want to cut any of those programs ???

Oh I'm sorry ... that's right .. Obama or anyone against oil subsidies ...is for cutting them So what you are saying is Obama is for removing our Strategic Petroleum Reserve, He's for taxing farmers a road tax for fuel used in equipment that is never driven on roads ... .and he is against low income home energy assistance

Also found this ...A subsidy is an actual payment from the government. Oil companies do not receive payments from the government, rather, they have specifically defined means of recapturing costs via tax credits. This is no different for oil companies than it is for any other business where a cost is incurred.

 

[hazlnut]

Who cares about Ryan's plan? It's not going to be enacted and Romney hasn't endorsed it. It's a non-issue.

Unless you want to be a hysterical demagogue, that is.

Well, he endorsed it than distanced himself from it.

The flip, then the flop.

 

[Masada]

Re: Ryan Plan: Take from the POOR and give to the RICH???

I keep hearing of these oil subsidies over and over again … and I just wonder if anyone has ever decided
it was worth their time to find out what are considered oil subsidies ??

I’ve done a quick search and what I’ve learned in that in the US we give 4.5 billion in so called subsidies.
I say so called because here is a few things that are considered subsidies


1) The single largest expenditure is just over $1 billion for the Strategic Petroleum Reserve,
which is designed to protect the U.S. from oil shortages.


2) The second largest category is just under $1 billion in tax exemptions for farm fuel.


3) The third largest category? $570 million for the Low-Income Home Energy Assistance Program.


This was just a quick search ... and it amounts to 2.5 billion of the subsidies every one is talking about
anyone here want to cut any of those programs ???

Oh I'm sorry ... that's right .. Obama or anyone against oil subsidies ...is for cutting them So what you are saying is Obama is for removing our Strategic Petroleum Reserve, He's for taxing farmers a road tax for fuel used in equipment that is never driven on roads ... .and he is against low income home energy assistance

Also found this ...A subsidy is an actual payment from the government. Oil companies do not receive payments from the government, rather, they have specifically defined means of recapturing costs via tax credits. This is no different for oil companies than it is for any other business where a cost is incurred.

Oh, believe me, I've tried explaining to dishonest liberals that tax deductions are not subsidies. But they love beating the tar out of dead horses.

Oil and gas companies do not receive subsidies, any person who has read for 5 minutes online about this knows it.

 

[AdamT]

Re: Ryan Plan: Take from the POOR and give to the RICH???

I keep hearing of these oil subsidies over and over again … and I just wonder if anyone has ever decided
it was worth their time to find out what are considered oil subsidies ??

I’ve done a quick search and what I’ve learned in that in the US we give 4.5 billion in so called subsidies.
I say so called because here is a few things that are considered subsidies


1) The single largest expenditure is just over $1 billion for the Strategic Petroleum Reserve,
which is designed to protect the U.S. from oil shortages.


2) The second largest category is just under $1 billion in tax exemptions for farm fuel.


3) The third largest category? $570 million for the Low-Income Home Energy Assistance Program.


This was just a quick search ... and it amounts to 2.5 billion of the subsidies every one is talking about
anyone here want to cut any of those programs ???

Oh I'm sorry ... that's right .. Obama or anyone against oil subsidies ...is for cutting them So what you are saying is Obama is for removing our Strategic Petroleum Reserve, He's for taxing farmers a road tax for fuel used in equipment that is never driven on roads ... .and he is against low income home energy assistance

Also found this ...A subsidy is an actual payment from the government. Oil companies do not receive payments from the government, rather, they have specifically defined means of recapturing costs via tax credits. This is no different for oil companies than it is for any other business where a cost is incurred.

Your list is missing the free oil that we give to oil companies, who then turn around and charge us for it. For example, the government doesn't collect ANY royalties on many of the deep water wells in the Gulf.