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Russian troops in Mariupol are making local Ukrainians dig mass graves in exchange for food and water, mayor says

Rogue Valley

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Russian troops in Mariupol are making local Ukrainians dig mass graves in exchange for food and water, mayor says

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4.26.22
Russian forces in Mariupol are making local Ukrainians dig mass graves in exchange for food and water, the city's mayor said on Tuesday. Mariupol's city council said in a Telegram post that a third mass grave was recently discovered near the port city, which had been besieged and under aerial attacks by Russian forces for weeks. The post included satellite pictures that appear to show the burial site in the Russian-occupied village of Stary Krym, located around five miles from Mariupol. The images were captured by the US imaging company Planet Labs and first reported by Radio Free Europe. "We know about these mass graves because these fascists — I have no other words — are enlisting local people for burial for food," Mariupol Mayor Vadym Boychenko said in a statement posted on the city council's Telegram. "They told us that it is necessary to 'work hard' to give you food and water," he added. "Now Mariupol does not have enough humanitarian aid so people are forced to do it."

Two other mass graves were found last week in the eastern village of Vynohradne and in the western town of Manhush, satellite images provided by Maxar Technologies show. Combined, those two graves can hold as many as 9,000 people, the city council said in a Telegram post last week. Boychenko said that more than 20,000 Mariupol residents had been killed since Russia invaded Ukraine on February 24, according to CNN. Last week Russian forces stormed a steel plant in the city where hundreds of Ukrainian troops and civilians, including children, had been sheltering. Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy previously warned that negotiations with Russia could end if it kills Mariupol's remaining fighters.


Mariupol residents have said that the Russians do not want single grave burials in cemeteries and so have dispersed miines in the cemetaries.

The Russians want large mass graves to quickly expedite the disposal of bodies.
 

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Russian troops in Mariupol are making local Ukrainians dig mass graves in exchange for food and water, mayor says



Mariupol residents have said that the Russians do not want single grave burials in cemeteries and so have dispersed miines in the cemetaries.


Likely False.


The Russians want large mass graves to quickly expedite the disposal of bodies.



Likely True.


Where is the Mayor by the way? Holed up in the Azovstal steel works?
 

Rogue Valley

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Where is the Mayor by the way? Holed up in the Azovstal steel works?

How would I know where the Mayor of Mariupol is and why would I tell you?

You'd be on the phone to Moscow in a New York minute.
 

Juin

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How would I know where the Mayor of Mariupol is and why would I tell you?


Lol He is not in Mariupol. The Mayor of Mariupol and his Deputy long escaped the cauldron. Very smart of them. Why should the Mayor risk his precious skin when there hundreds of bonehead Nazi Azovs to take the Russian bullets?



You'd be on the phone to Moscow in a New York minute.


Or you can call the FBI. What is holding you up from calling the FBI?
 

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Juin

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Making people dig their own graves is deplorable.


Get it correct. They are not digging their own graves. They will be digging graves for those already dead.



If this is not war crimes, what is?


Burying corpses is now a war crime? What are the Russians supposed to do with the corpses lying around? Just leave them there?
 

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Get it correct. They are not digging their own graves. They will be digging graves for those already dead.






Burying corpses is now a war crime? What are the Russians supposed to do with the corpses lying around? Just leave them there?
There’s nothing that isn’t a war crime to those licking Ukrainian boots.
 

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There’s nothing that isn’t a war crime to those licking Ukrainian boots.



The list is endless. Kiev manufactured another claim that Russia is forcibly moving Mariupolians to Russia. It gets laughable. Like the shrieks that Russia is burying dead bodies. And the western media just lap it up.

For starters, why would Russia bother with anyone who wants to stay in Mariupol? Incidentally Russia is providing aid to those who are still there. It is probably cheaper and more practical for the Russians to provide bread to those still there than finding scarce transport to ship them elsewhere.

Second, it is conveniently forgotten that the ethnic Russians of Ukraine are people who straddle both sides of the border, with extended families in Russia. What is more normal than Mariupololians with families in Russia heading there to shelter with families?
 

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Likely False.

Likely true. It came from a major main stream media source which is well vetted and has a reputation for accurate reporting.
 

Peacenik

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Get it correct. They are not digging their own graves. They will be digging graves for those already dead.

Russians are destroying residential apartments with people in them. They are killing civilians. Any civilians forced to dig graves could absolutely be digging their own.

Burying corpses is now a war crime? What are the Russians supposed to do with the corpses lying around? Just leave them there?
No. Killing civilians is a war crime. Why do you think there are so many bodies? Russians have bombed hospitals, schools and homes. Putin is a ruthless killer.
 

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Likely False.






Likely True.


Where is the Mayor by the way? Holed up in the Azovstal steel works?
In the past, I would have found your blanket denial comforting because it demonstrates that you at least believe the act being asserted is monstrous.

Unfortunately, I've found that every time a monstrosity has been proven satisfactorily, the person who denies the monstrosity immediately pivots to justifying it. So I can't take any comfort from your denial because I've been down this road before.
 

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Likely true. It came from a major main stream media source which is well vetted and has a reputation for accurate reporting.



That does not excuse you from subjecting the claims to examination. That is the only way you can separate truth from propaganda.
 

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Russians are destroying residential apartments with people in them. They are killing civilians. Any civilians forced to dig graves could absolutely be digging their own.


No. Killing civilians is a war crime. Why do you think there are so many bodies? Russians have bombed hospitals, schools and homes. Putin is a ruthless killer.
Killing civilians is not a war crime in this context, i.e. the Ukrainian military using civilians as human shields and embedding itself in civilian infrastructure. The steel plant in Mariupol is a prime example of this and the Geneva Conventions are crystal clear - they don’t stop being legitimate targets just because they’re hiding amongst civilians.
 

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That does not excuse you from subjecting the claims to examination. That is the only way you can separate truth from propaganda.
The beauty of our system, and the reason the two parties work for us, is that liberals can rely on conservatives to point out falsehoods in the news they believe, and visa versa. Any time you want to point out something that MSN published that is false, and provide contrary evidence? I am all ears. But if you're just spouting unsupported partisan beliefs? Forget it. Heard all that before. Nothing of interest there. Just another conservative spreading more unfounded hatred of a media system spreading the truth that conservatives refuse to acknowledge. Happens every day ad infinitum. Move along to something else...

Calling the news fake does not make it fake.
 

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Killing civilians is not a war crime in this context, i.e. the Ukrainian military using civilians as human shields and embedding itself in civilian infrastructure. The steel plant in Mariupol is a prime example of this and the Geneva Conventions are crystal clear - they don’t stop being legitimate targets just because they’re hiding amongst civilians.

The Geneva conventions are crystal clear that if you intend to bomb in urban areas with civilians present, you need to allow humanitarian escape corridors.

The Russians refuse to allow such humanitarian escape corridors in Mariupol, thus people hide in the safest places like the steel plant.

The Russians desire dead civilians to pressure the Zelenskyy government to capitulate, and they also desire hostages.
 

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Russian troops in Mariupol are making local Ukrainians dig mass graves in exchange for food and water, mayor says

AAWChmr.img




Mariupol residents have said that the Russians do not want single grave burials in cemeteries and so have dispersed miines in the cemetaries.

The Russians want large mass graves to quickly expedite the disposal of bodies.
Sounds like something the Nazis did with Concentration Camp inmates.

Ironic. Russia invaded Ukraine to "Denazify" it, yet they are doing exactly what Hitler's goons used to do......
 

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The Geneva conventions are crystal clear that if you intend to bomb in urban areas with civilians present, you need to allow humanitarian escape corridors.
I think we've pretty much established that Putzin and Co don't give a tin shit about the GCs.
 

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That does not excuse you from subjecting the claims to examination. That is the only way you can separate truth from propaganda.
Russia is writing the history in Maripol now and they are habitual liars. The fact that you believe their accounts is proof that you are not concerned with the truth.
 

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Sounds like something the Nazis did with Concentration Camp inmates.

Ironic. Russia invaded Ukraine to "Denazify" it, yet they are doing exactly what Hitler's goons used to do......
Yes they have taken projection to new heights. The reason they won't go into the steel mill is that it was a holdout for Russians fighting the Nazi's in WWII too.
 

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Likely False.
.


In the past, I would have found your blanket denial comforting because it demonstrates that you at least believe the act being asserted is monstrous.

I did not issue a blanket denial, I said Likely False.


Unfortunately, I've found that every time a monstrosity has been proven satisfactorily, the person who denies the monstrosity immediately pivots to justifying it. So I can't take any comfort from your denial because I've been down this road before.


How have the claims been proven to your satisfaction?

This is the charge by Rogue Valley in his own words, "Mariupol residents have said that the Russians do not want single grave burials in cemeteries and so have dispersed mines in the cemetaries."


The credibility of the charge can be examined.

1. What possible reason would Russians- and not just Russians, it could be Ukrainians, Americans, Brits- have for objecting to single grave burials in a city strewn with corpses? Mariupol is not the first urban war that ever took place. In general mass graves are resorted to because single grave burials may not be fast enough given the number of corpses.

2. Dispersing mines in cemetaries? Even you have to find that outlandish and comical. Mines dont grow on trees. Mines are manufactured, cost money, and have to be freighted to the battle zones. You think an Army will waste precious to ferry mines just to disperse them in cemetaries? Mines serve a useful function in defense lines. What military function is served by putting mines in cemetaries in a city that has been captured?

Point 2 is sufficient to dismiss the charges as propaganda
 

Juin

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Russia is writing the history in Maripol now and they are habitual liars.


Russia has not made an assertion to which I have to examine for falsity. Rogue Valley is the one who has made some very outlandish charges, the burden of proof is on him. Is that not how it works at your end? Rogue Valley has accused Russians of placing mines in cemetaries to discourage single grave burials; the burden is on him to prove his charges.



The fact that you believe their accounts is proof that you are not concerned with the truth.


HELLO There is no Russian account for me to believe. The account on the table is Rogue Valley's.
 

Juin

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Killing civilians is not a war crime in this context, i.e. the Ukrainian military using civilians as human shields and embedding itself in civilian infrastructure. The steel plant in Mariupol is a prime example of this and the Geneva Conventions are crystal clear - they don’t stop being legitimate targets just because they’re hiding amongst civilians.


Exactly. It is not a war crime to attack legitimate military targets.

1 The Azovstahl steelworks is a legitimate military target; no doubt about that, the Azov guys there, and their testimonies to that effect, is clear case that the steelworks is a legitimate military target.

2 The Azov guys also have an obligation not to endanger civilians. It is understandable if they concluded that the steelworks made for very formidable defense. They can make it into a fortress, but the civilians they allow in is on them.
 

Juin

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The Geneva conventions are crystal clear that if you intend to bomb in urban areas with civilians present, you need to allow humanitarian escape corridors.


Only if it can be arranged. It cannot be an escape corridor to allow Azov guys disguised as civilians to pass through and maybe launch attacks from behind the beseiging troops.



The Russians refuse to allow such humanitarian escape corridors in Mariupol, thus people hide in the safest places like the steel plant.


The Azovstahl steelworks are safe places to hide as long as Azov guys do not turn it into a fortress. Once the Azov guys planted themselves inside the steelworks it ceased to be a safe place


The Russians desire dead civilians to pressure the Zelenskyy government to capitulate, and they also desire hostages.


LOL You are such a joke! Isnt it Zelensky who is holding a civilian Medvedchuk a hostage in Kiev and asking for him to be exchange for Ukrainian soldier POWs?
 

Juin

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That does not excuse you from subjecting the claims to examination. That is the only way you can separate truth from propaganda.


The beauty of our system, and the reason the two parties work for us, is that liberals can rely on conservatives to point out falsehoods in the news they believe, and visa versa. Any time you want to point out something that MSN published that is false, and provide contrary evidence? I am all ears. But if you're just spouting unsupported partisan beliefs? Forget it. Heard all that before. Nothing of interest there. Just another conservative spreading more unfounded hatred of a media system spreading the truth that conservatives refuse to acknowledge. Happens every day ad infinitum. Move along to something else...

Calling the news fake does not make it fake.


You are going on a rant without addressing the issue. It is Fake Charges. Rogue Valley made the charges, and Rogue Valley, from all I can tell, is not in Mariupol. He just sits at his keyboard and manufactures fake charges
 

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I did not issue a blanket denial, I said Likely False.





How have the claims been proven to your satisfaction?

This is the charge by Rogue Valley in his own words, "Mariupol residents have said that the Russians do not want single grave burials in cemeteries and so have dispersed mines in the cemetaries."


The credibility of the charge can be examined.

1. What possible reason would Russians- and not just Russians, it could be Ukrainians, Americans, Brits- have for objecting to single grave burials in a city strewn with corpses? Mariupol is not the first urban war that ever took place. In general mass graves are resorted to because single grave burials may not be fast enough given the number of corpses.

2. Dispersing mines in cemetaries? Even you have to find that outlandish and comical. Mines dont grow on trees. Mines are manufactured, cost money, and have to be freighted to the battle zones. You think an Army will waste precious to ferry mines just to disperse them in cemetaries? Mines serve a useful function in defense lines. What military function is served by putting mines in cemetaries in a city that has been captured?

Point 2 is sufficient to dismiss the charges as propaganda
You're confused about my point. I'm not going to try to convince you that the claim is true because I know that the only pot of gold that awaits me at the end of that rainbow is you justifying the monstrous act or, just as likely, resorting to whataboutism or a false equivalence.

There is no outcome in which you say, "Wow, that the Russians are making people dig their own graves is ****ing evil."
 
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