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Russian Membership of the United Nations

Sweden

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The UN Charter sets out conditions of membership. Articles 1, 2.3 and 2.4 specifically forbid acts of aggression against other member states. Articles 5 and 6 lay out the procedure whereby offending states may first be suspended from UN membership and then, if they persist in breaking the rules of the UN Charter, be expelled. It is now time for Russia to be ejected from a body which has, as its main task the preservation of peace and the outlawing of aggression.

I suggest that leave a whataboutery fest to one side for the time being and concentrate on Russia's unprovoked invasion of Ukraine.
 

PoS

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The UN is totally useless, so it wouldnt matter either way.
 

bluesmoke

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Then UN prez Kofi Annan acknowledged that the US invasion of Iraq in 2003 was illegal but did nothing about it, let alone to the extreme of expelling the US as a UN member. Did not even convene a review under "Uniting for Peace" resolution 377, which review the US successfully prevented from being undertaken as the outcome would likely be against the US. The UN just doesn't have the moral authority.
 

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The UN Charter sets out conditions of membership. Articles 1, 2.3 and 2.4 specifically forbid acts of aggression against other member states. Articles 5 and 6 lay out the procedure whereby offending states may first be suspended from UN membership and then, if they persist in breaking the rules of the UN Charter, be expelled. It is now time for Russia to be ejected from a body which has, as its main task the preservation of peace and the outlawing of aggression.

I suggest that leave a whataboutery fest to one side for the time being and concentrate on Russia's unprovoked invasion of Ukraine.

If the US wasn’t kicked out of the UN for invading Iraq it’s kinda hard to see where the justification for Russia getting kicked out would be.
 

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If the US wasn’t kicked out of the UN for invading Iraq it’s kinda hard to see where the justification for Russia getting kicked out would be.
I suggested leaving 'what about' issues to one side. But if you insist the US cannot be 'kicked out' because it pays such a large share of the bills.
 

Tigerace117

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I suggested leaving 'what about' issues to one side. But if you insist the US cannot be 'kicked out' because it pays such a large share of the bills.

If the logic is that countries which wage wars of aggression are to be “kicked out”, we would have been expelled years ago.

But we weren’t, so claiming Russia would be is silly.
 

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The UN Charter sets out conditions of membership. Articles 1, 2.3 and 2.4 specifically forbid acts of aggression against other member states. Articles 5 and 6 lay out the procedure whereby offending states may first be suspended from UN membership and then, if they persist in breaking the rules of the UN Charter, be expelled. It is now time for Russia to be ejected from a body which has, as its main task the preservation of peace and the outlawing of aggression.

I suggest that leave a whataboutery fest to one side for the time being and concentrate on Russia's unprovoked invasion of Ukraine.

Here is the problem: Russia and Ukraine are officially counted as the United Soviet Socialist Republic (USSR) and, as such, under the United Nations membership rules they are having a civil war.
 

bluesmoke

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Here is the problem: Russia and Ukraine are officially counted as the United Soviet Socialist Republic (USSR) and, as such, under the United Nations membership rules they are having a civil war.

Just a note, that's Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.

UN "Uniting for Peace" resolution 377 can be applied to intra-state conflict.
 

bluesmoke

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I suggested leaving 'what about' issues to one side. But if you insist the US cannot be 'kicked out' because it pays such a large share of the bills.

And the fact that after passing on the US, a precedent of letting the US get away with what they did would have been established to not kick out anybody for any similar aggression. Besides that, the UN and the US wouldn't have the moral high ground to kick out anybody, either. They could, of course, make **** up to justify whatever they do or don't do. There's always that.
 

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If the logic is that countries which wage wars of aggression are to be kicked out, we would have been expelled years ago.

But we weren’t, so claiming Russia would be is silly.

Intent is the key part of this. Vlaidimir Putin is trying to destroy Ukraine's sovereignty. He wants all of Ukraine back.
 

Tigerace117

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Intent is the key part of this. Vlaidimir Putin is trying to destroy Ukraine's sovereignty. He wants all of Ukraine back.

And if you asked just about any average person in the Middle East, which the exception of Israelis, they’d say we were trying to destroy Iraq’s sovereignty by occupying it.
 

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And if you asked just about any average person in the Middle East, which the exception of Israelis, they’d say we were trying to destroy Iraq’s sovereignty by occupying it.

They would be wrong, of course. Our intent bis determined by us alone, not what the locals thought we were doing.
 

Tigerace117

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They would be wrong, of course. Our intent bis determined by us alone, not what the locals thought we were doing.

......so, by that definition, your claims about Putin’s intentions would be irrelevant, because it’s the Russians would be the only ones to decide that.
 

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......so, by that definition, your claims about Putin’s intentions would be irrelevant, because it’s the Russians would be the only ones to decide that.

Everyone knows what Vlaidimir Putin is trying to do. He tried to do it with part of Georgia. He successfully did it with Crimea. The whole world knows he is doing it again, this time with part of Ukraine that is borders Russia.
 

Tigerace117

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Everyone knows what Vlaidimir Putin is trying to do. He tried to do it with part of Georgia. He successfully did it with Crimea. The whole world knows he is doing it again, this time with part of Ukraine that is borders Russia.

And everyone “knew’ about American efforts against Iraq. Funnily enough, the more you study history the more obvious it is that what “everyone” knows and what’s actually the case are rarely the same.

It’s also rather amusing to hear Americans constantly describe America and Western Europe as “the world”. Most of the world has no interest in getting involved.
 

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And everyone “knew’ about American efforts against Iraq. Funnily enough, the more you study history the more obvious it is that what “everyone” knows and what’s actually the case are rarely the same.

It’s also rather amusing to hear Americans constantly describe America and Western Europe as “the world”. Most of the world has no interest in getting involved.

Let me know when you learn world geography.
 

Tigerace117

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NATO is in Eastern Europe and the Middle East.

The UN is in the Far East.

The UN includes the ENTIRE World, not just NATO member states.

As I said before, most countries don’t want to get involved.
 

EMNofSeattle

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The UN Charter sets out conditions of membership. Articles 1, 2.3 and 2.4 specifically forbid acts of aggression against other member states. Articles 5 and 6 lay out the procedure whereby offending states may first be suspended from UN membership and then, if they persist in breaking the rules of the UN Charter, be expelled. It is now time for Russia to be ejected from a body which has, as its main task the preservation of peace and the outlawing of aggression.

I suggest that leave a whataboutery fest to one side for the time being and concentrate on Russia's unprovoked invasion of Ukraine.
You can try, but the vast majority of UN members support Russia or are indifferent. So what you’re demanding is the white western countries demand that the world force Russia out, and that vote may result in shocking results for the Globohomo ruling class.
 

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Here is the problem: Russia and Ukraine are officially counted as the United Soviet Socialist Republic (USSR) and, as such, under the United Nations membership rules they are having a civil war.
Not so. When Ukraine became independent in 1991 it retained its UN seat in its own right. Of course the UN no longer recognises the existence of the USSR. Nor does Russia or anyone else.
 

Patriotic Voter

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Not so. When Ukraine became independent in 1991 it retained its UN seat in its own right. Of course the UN no longer recognises the existence of the USSR. Nor does Russia or anyone else.

Ukraine must have be awarded a new seat. The USSR included Ukraine.
 

bomberfox

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Here is the problem: Russia and Ukraine are officially counted as the United Soviet Socialist Republic (USSR) and, as such, under the United Nations membership rules they are having a civil war.
They need to update their understanding of present day nations.
 

code1211

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The UN Charter sets out conditions of membership. Articles 1, 2.3 and 2.4 specifically forbid acts of aggression against other member states. Articles 5 and 6 lay out the procedure whereby offending states may first be suspended from UN membership and then, if they persist in breaking the rules of the UN Charter, be expelled. It is now time for Russia to be ejected from a body which has, as its main task the preservation of peace and the outlawing of aggression.

I suggest that leave a whataboutery fest to one side for the time being and concentrate on Russia's unprovoked invasion of Ukraine.

Ejecting a nuclear power allied with other large nuclear powers from the UN means the end of the UN.
 
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