Russia Says They Will End Ukraine War on These Four Conditions

[fmw]

What you neglected to include in your explanation is the fact that the other NATO members have less to defend (and fewer threats to defend against) than the US does.

An analogy would be demanding that a family that spends 2% of its income on purchasing sufficient food to provide its members with 2,500 Kcal per day increase its spending on food to provide sufficient food to provide its members with 3,500 Kcal per day (when 2,500 Kcal per day is a sufficiency to ensure adequate nutrition) because you are feeding your family enough to ensure that they are all obese.

No need to repeat what I have already written.

You may have failed to explain, but you can say you acknowledge the facts of what TU is saying, and perhaps his point.

No, I would say the Euro NATO members are the ones likely to defend a threat than the U.S. I found the caloric analogy to be silly. Sorry.

 

[bluesmoke]

Not in recent years.

Then if only in recent yrs as you imply, how so?

 

[bluesmoke]

No need to repeat what I have already written.

No, I would say the Euro NATO members are the ones likely to defend a threat than the U.S. I found the caloric analogy to be silly. Sorry.

Thanks for the clarity.

If anything, the US should pay a higher % because it is the Euro NATO members' homeland at immediate risk and used by the US to essentially defend the US from enemy threat over there than over here.

 

[fmw]

Thanks for the clarity.

If anything, the US should pay a higher % because it is the Euro NATO members' homeland at immediate risk and used by the US to essentially defend the US from enemy threat over there than over here.

Wrong.

 

[bluesmoke]

Wrong.

I gave my reasoning. What's yours?

 

[MAGAnificent]

Yes, that's everything Russia has been stating they want.

However that is not everything Putin wanted. They invaded with the intention of a complete takeover of Ukraine and expected it would happen in 48 to 72 hours, as did the rest of the world including the dementia addled turd in the White House.

 

[fmw]

I gave my reasoning. What's yours?

It is wrong because the US is not defending its own interests in Europe. It is defending Europe's interests. I'm actually fairly astounded that we belong to NATO

 

[MAGAnificent]

If anything, the US should pay a higher % because it is the Euro NATO members' homeland at immediate risk and used by the US to essentially defend the US from enemy threat over there than over here.

The US has been paying a far higher percentage all along. We pay 22% of the cost of running NATO. It is the Euro NATO members who should anti up more for the reason you have just given. Their homeland is more at immediate risk. Perhaps they are beginning to learn that with the invasion of Ukraine. They failed to learn from two world wars. Sadly instead of creating a strong European defense, they are getting spoiled with America's logistical abilities.

 

[highroller]

However that is not everything Putin wanted. They invaded with the intention of a complete takeover of Ukraine and expected it would happen in 48 to 72 hours, as did the rest of the world including the dementia addled turd in the White House.

Wars begin when you will, but they do not end when you please. – Niccolò Machiavelli​

A good statesman knows that going to war should not be done with expensing all other avenues of diplomacy first.

 

[Pound4abrown]

Mother Russia can **** off.

 

[Channe79]

Russia should demand the following:

1) Resignation of Zelensky and the dismantling of his globalist government
2) All those involved in said globalist gov't must leave the country
3) A full time presence of Russian military bases through out Ukraine to prevent globalist funded uprisings
4) The banning of any candidate who wishes to see Ukraine join the globalist EU
5) The ousting of all 'socialists/communists" from Ukraine
6) Making the act of supporting socialism/communism punishable with life in prison

 

[bluesmoke]

However that is not everything Putin wanted. They invaded with the intention of a complete takeover of Ukraine and expected it would happen in 48 to 72 hours, as did the rest of the world including the dementia addled turd in the White House.

Trump was not prez then.

 

[Rogue Valley]

In an interview with Reuters on Monday, Peskov said Moscow could "end war immediately" if Ukraine:

• agreed to sign a neutrality agreement that would bar it from entering NATO.

Ukraine, as any sovereign and independent nation, has the unfettered right to enter into treaties and alliances.

The brutal Russian invasions of 2014/2022 demonstrate why Ukraine requires alignment with NATO

---

• recognized Crimea as Russian.

Russia transferred Crimea to Ukraine in 1954. In 2014 Russia invaded and illegally annexed Crimea.

The Geneva Conventions stipulate that it is illegal for a belligerant occupying power to hold a referendum in occupied land.

The United Nations does not recognize the illegal annexation of Crimea by Russia.

General Assembly Adopts Resolution Calling upon States Not to Recognize Changes in Status of Crimea Region

---

• recognize the separatist regions of Luhansk and Donetsk as independent.

These are oblasts of Ukraine currently occupied by the Russian military. No countries in the world recognize these occupied statelets as independent. Not even Belarus.

---

• ceases all military action.

Military action will cease only when all Russian forces depart from all regions of Ukraine.

​

 

[MAGAnificent]

Trump was not prez then.

I am aware. Putin would not have invaded with Trump in office,

 

[Cardinal]

I am aware. Putin would not have invaded with Trump in office,

If Trump were still in office, Putin would have nuked Ukraine and Paris.

 

[EnigmaO01]

I'm not sure Russia should be able to waltz out without any restitution for damages, but at least keep all the sanctions on, maybe?

But it may be a moot point. Don't know if Ukraine will agree to officially accepting the loss of those territories.

Zelinksky says no to the loss of any territories and wants Crimea back.

 

[EnigmaO01]

What everyone appears to forget is that the Russians have a deep national fear of being encircled, attacked, and destroyed. That fear did NOT start in the 1950s, or the 1900s, or the 1850s, or the 1800s, or the 1750s, or the 1700s, or the 1600s, or even the 1500s.

The way that the US government dealt with the Russians' culturally instilled fear was (after 1946) to encircle them, threaten to attack them, and demonize them as a nation that had to be destroyed.

This, of course, calmed the Russians down totally and they naturally treated the US government as a benevolent entity - right?

BTW, if it is OK for the US to "unilaterally intervene, militarily occupy, and transform sovereign states into political and economic protectorates" in order to protect (what the US government defines as) US national interests and security then why is it NOT OK for Russia to "unilaterally intervene, militarily occupy, and transform sovereign states into political and economic protectorates" in order to protect (what the Russian government defines as) Russian national interests and security?

We never threatened to attack them and the encircling you speak of was the NATO alliance to protect neighboring countries from being invaded as the Soviet Union and Russia have a history of this. Case in point: Ukraine.

 

[EnigmaO01]

They can accept the loss of those territories, or they can accept the loss of their whole country. Unless the US decides to go in and start WW3 over this.

That's quite arrogant to tell a country to capitulate to an invading army when you don't have to live there.

 

[EnigmaO01]

No, "we" cannot do any such thing. Now if by "we" you actually meant to say China, then yes I would agree, China has it within their power to accomplish this. However, they have shown no sign of doing so and indeed have increased their economic investment with Russia since the war began. "Sanctions" sound glamorous but this is the 21st century e.g. China's century. They can offset our economic actions, and thus far it appears clear that the trade formerly between Russia and the west will merely shift to feed China's economic engine instead. It may take a year or two, but it will happen.

What a bunch of unsubstantiated malarky.

Not even sure where to start with this post. And there's nothing glamorous abut sanctions by most of the rest of the world on the Russian economy. Especially a country that has a smaller GDP than several states in the U.S.

 

[EnigmaO01]

countries can debate those 4 things for months and that will buy Putin more time to slaughter more humans.

And more time to slaughter more Russian troops and eliminate more Russian equipment.

 

[Lord of Planar]

However that is not everything Putin wanted. They invaded with the intention of a complete takeover of Ukraine and expected it would happen in 48 to 72 hours, as did the rest of the world including the dementia addled turd in the White House.

I think you are wrong on that account. I do think they expected to do the same for two of the provinces like they did for Crimea. I suspect that was the short term end goal. If they did consider taking more of the Ukraine, I believe they would have waited for another province to ask them in. Just like they did with Crimea and the other two locations.

 

[Lord of Planar]

If Trump were still in office, Putin would have nuked Ukraine and Paris.

Interesting imagination.

 

[Lord of Planar]

Zelinksky says no to the loss of any territories and wants Crimea back.

I imagine Crimea would be happy to come back, once Ukraine becomes a free nation again.

 

[Cardinal]

Interesting imagination.

I thought that was the point.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

We never threatened to attack them and the encircling you speak of was the NATO alliance to protect neighboring countries from being invaded as the Soviet Union and Russia have a history of this. Case in point: Ukraine.

Obviously you never lived through the 1950s and 1960s when it was a part of the rules for running for office to demonize Russia and the Russians.

Obviously you don't realize that threats can be conveyed through actions as well as through words.

Obviously you don't know that the whole "Russia is secretly rearming and not demobilizing after the defeats of Germany and Japan." line was something invented by a Nazi Lt.Gen. who would tell anyone anything that they wanted to hear in order to avoid being put on trial for war crimes (and likely convicted [and executed]) and that the "documentation" that he delivered to the US government was (in the vast number of cases) totally fraudulent (as were the number of agents that he was "running" [and which the US government was paying for]).

Your "as the Soviet Union and Russia have a history of this" is simply poppycock. Russian territorial expansion ended before American territorial expansion did. It's just that the US only took land away from Red, Brown, and Yellow people (which made it OK).