Roseanne Bar says blacks who supported Prop 8 are bigots and ignorant.

[jfuh]

Re: Roseanne Barr says blacks who supported Prop 8 are bigots and ignorant.

oh wait, no, I got it. it went something like this, didn't it?:

jfuh: christians should be for gay marriage, God is tolerant and loving
emdash: actually the bible condemns homosexual behavior
jfuh: do you really want to go there, the BIBLE for god's sake OMG YOU BIGOT??!?!? LIKE THAT IS A REPUTABLE SOURCE?!?!?! OMG?!?!

How about quoting honestly without the hyperbole?
You cherry pick parts of the bible to support your claims that the bible condemns homosexuality. The bible condems many a things, but do christians actually stone heretics? stone those that wear more than one material for clothing? sell their daughters as slaves? No, no one does that anymore today, they were selected out as being rediculous and absurd.
Hence christians cherry pick the parts that focus on the greater good.
So if you're going to say, because the bible says so well it says quite a lot, and I doubt you practice all of it, so cherry picking bits to support you is irrelevant.
I focused on the "Greater good" portion of the bible.
God created homosexuals as he did heterosexuals, so who are you to be bashing against god's creation?

the bible was YOUR idea, remember? it was your great new plan for getting christians to support gay marriage. I shot it down with some basic christian principles, and you're sore.

I never brought up the bible, I brought up the central moral of christian faith. You're going to tell me now that the central moral of christian faith is to rage against gays?

I'm starting to feel like kind of a superhero, standing up for mormons and then for blacks, when I'm actually neither myself.

Indeed :sword:

 

[emdash]

Re: Roseanne Barr says blacks who supported Prop 8 are bigots and ignorant.

How about quoting honestly without the hyperbole?

sorry. that was rude. however that was the gist of it.

You cherry pick parts of the bible to support your claims that the bible condemns homosexuality.

what? to support MY claims? no. just to refute yours. your posts showed you knew nothing about the bible. I only corrected you.

The bible condems many a things, but do christians actually stone heretics?

softly, my child. no one is suggesting we stone gays.

Hence christians cherry pick the parts that focus on the greater good. So if you're going to say, because the bible says so well it says quite a lot, and I doubt you practice all of it, so cherry picking bits to support you is irrelevant.

I wasn't cherry picking to support me...I was answering your claims that God supports homosexuality, by pointing out what the bible says about homosexuality.

I focused on the "Greater good" portion of the bible. God created homosexuals as he did heterosexuals, so who are you to be bashing against god's creation?

are you suggesting that "God" has some real authority over me?
are you further suggesting that I am "bashing" someone?

I never brought up the bible, I brought up the central moral of christian faith. You're going to tell me now that the central moral of christian faith is to rage against gays?

you did not bring up the bible, but you brought up both God and Christianity before anyone else. I was only telling you what God and Christianity actually say to homosexuality, since you clearly had no idea.

 

[Wessexman]

Re: Roseanne Ba says blracks who supported Prop 8 are bigots and ignorant.

I do comprehend it, and it is bigoted, it is intolerant, and I'm not going to tolerate intolerance.
To really exemplify what I'm talking of. KKK morons are racist bigoted and intolerant sacks of ****. Should I put up and tolerate the differences there as simply being a "difference of viewpoint and ideology"? Should I put up with Iranian nutsack Ahmadinannananutjob when he says Israel ought be wiped off the face of the earth? No.
Same thing here, the only difference is that the majority of society today sees racism and anti-semitism as absurd. But to dog on homosexuality and reduce them to second class citizens as acceptable.
Homosexuals are the new black.

I have already shown a concievable Burkean argument above that couldn't really be called bigoted or ignorant.

 

[jfuh]

Re: Roseanne Barr says blacks who supported Prop 8 are bigots and ignorant.

sorry. that was rude. however that was the gist of it.



what? to support MY claims? no. just to refute yours. your posts showed you knew nothing about the bible. I only corrected you.

softly, my child. no one is suggesting we stone gays.

I wasn't cherry picking to support me...I was answering your claims that God supports homosexuality, by pointing out what the bible says about homosexuality.

Does not the bible emphasize tolerance more so? In particular Jesus?
We don't stone heretics anymore because of Jesus' teaching. We celebrate compassion. IN all those accounts the NT is of greater relevance than anything in the OT, except when it came to slavery during the civil war and opponents to civil rights movements and now against gays.

are you suggesting that "God" has some real authority over me?

I would expect that someone who is a christian to oblige by gods authority. Unless I had misread your former post claiming to?

are you further suggesting that I am "bashing" someone?

The OT certainly has no reservations of genocidal "bashing" of anyone that disagrees with it.

you did not bring up the bible, but you brought up both God and Christianity before anyone else. I was only telling you what God and Christianity actually say to homosexuality, since you clearly had no idea.

:2brick: How many times do I need to repeat, the bible says a lot of things, you don't practice all those things. Intolerance goes against the core of christian belief, stoning heretics is intolerance, ergo, homosexual bashing via solom is just as absurd.

 

[jfuh]

Re: Roseanne Ba says blracks who supported Prop 8 are bigots and ignorant.

Well you are putting me into a rather devil's advocate position but I believe I can concieve of a Burkean argument behind some of those opposed to gay marriage.

To them society is a deeply woven edifice of tradition, right, liberties, duties, associations, institutions and authorities. It is not easily comprehended by the individual and any one part can have a great effect on who knows how many others and who knows how many ways. If it is to be changed it should be changed piecemeal and in accord with a veneration of the rest of society.

That's their ideology, not mine. I don't share in that ideology. We are not a nation under the same ideology, we are a nation of law to which every individual is recognized equally under. Singling out homosexuals and saying no, you do not have the same equality to choose as a heterosexual is inequality.

Marriage has been between men and women in the west for millenia and we should not therefore rush to change such an ancient tradition and institution but, if it needs to be changed, we should do it gradually.

Marriage used to also be a property exchange of rites, where the woman was nothing more than property.
It then was changed and made into a law that was used to prevent interracial marriages.
Today against gays.
The whole millenia thing? Untrue.
Marriage and the definition of what marriage constitutes or represents has been constantly changing in various societies for hundreds of years.
Today on a state level it is nothing more than a contract that the state recognizes of legal rights and obligations between the two consenting adults. To which there is no logical rationale to prohibit any two consenting adults from entering into said state recognized contract of rites.

 

[emdash]

Re: Roseanne Barr says blacks who supported Prop 8 are bigots and ignorant.

Does not the bible emphasize tolerance more so? In particular Jesus?
We don't stone heretics anymore because of Jesus' teaching. We celebrate compassion. IN all those accounts the NT is of greater relevance than anything in the OT, except when it came to slavery during the civil war and opponents to civil rights movements and now against gays.

of course it is important to be tolerant in the style of Jesus. Jesus fraternized with prostitutes and tax collectors to show that God loves all of his children equally.

it does not follow that sinful behaviors should be encouraged or legalized, and no matter what you may say, the bible IS very clear about homosexuality being sinful.

I would expect that someone who is a christian to oblige by gods authority. Unless I had misread your former post claiming to?

worth looking into before flying off the handle? in either case, is flying off the handle appropriate? is it kind?

The OT certainly has no reservations of genocidal "bashing" of anyone that disagrees with it...Intolerance goes against the core of christian belief, stoning heretics is intolerance, ergo, homosexual bashing via solom is just as absurd.

no one is bashing homosexuals.

 

[Wessexman]

Re: Roseanne Ba says blracks who supported Prop 8 are bigots and ignorant.

That's their ideology, not mine. I don't share in that ideology. We are not a nation under the same ideology, we are a nation of law to which every individual is recognized equally under. Singling out homosexuals and saying no, you do not have the same equality to choose as a heterosexual is inequality.

However that argument cannot be described as bigotry or ignorance. The Conservative is arguing it for reasons not motivated by these concerns.

Marriage used to also be a property exchange of rites, where the woman was nothing more than property.
It then was changed and made into a law that was used to prevent interracial marriages.
Today against gays.
The whole millenia thing? Untrue.
Marriage and the definition of what marriage constitutes or represents has been constantly changing in various societies for hundreds of years.
Today on a state level it is nothing more than a contract that the state recognizes of legal rights and obligations between the two consenting adults. To which there is no logical rationale to prohibit any two consenting adults from entering into said state recognized contract of rites.

Well that is incorrect, the legal part does not remove the Western idea of marriage which is still current or at least was until a few years ago in most of the west. But this is not my argument, I was just showing how it need not be based on blind bigotry and ignorance but on a reasoned conservatism.

 

[herenow1]

I do comprehend it, and it is bigoted, it is intolerant, and I'm not going to tolerate intolerance.
To really exemplify what I'm talking of. KKK morons are racist bigoted and intolerant sacks of ****. Should I put up and tolerate the differences there as simply being a "difference of viewpoint and ideology"? Should I put up with Iranian nutsack Ahmadinannananutjob when he says Israel ought be wiped off the face of the earth? No.
Same thing here, the only difference is that the majority of society today sees racism and anti-semitism as absurd. But to dog on homosexuality and reduce them to second class citizens as acceptable.
Homosexuals are the new black.

I think the difference with the kkk, is that they all despise non whites, wont have a black, jew, latino etc over their house for dinner, dont believe in socializing with them or being cordial. Ahmn would want people killed, and would do it himself. There are many people who treat gays like they would treat a friend, or a family member,they just disagree that their union be called marriage. I find it funny that the same people who elevate Obama, forget that he is against gay marriage too, but for civil unions. I have also met several people who are neither christian nor conservative who aren't too keen on gay marriage, but respect gays and treat them with respect in general. I think the reason some of you aren't getting valid answers is b/c this debate is much like the abortion debate...never ending..and nobodys answers will ever be good enough.

 

[disneydude]

does that include gays?:2razz:

Yes...Bill.....there are many many ignorant and uneducated gays just like everyone else.

 

[UtahBill]

Yes...Bill.....there are many many ignorant and uneducated gays just like everyone else.

do they ALL have to be here at DP?:2razz::lol:

 

[Goobieman]

I always amuses me when a group of people claim to be tolerant and accuse others of being hate mongers or having a phobia of something. All we need to do is look around the internet and this forum to know that gays and their apologist can be hateful and intolerant just like everyone else in the world.

Fool!
Dont you know?
Only intolerant -conservatives- are bigots.
Intolerant liberals? Why, they're enlightened.
Just ask them!

 

[earthworm]

Re: Roseanne Ba says Blacks who supported Prop 8 are bigots and ignorant.

That's their ideology, not mine. I don't share in that ideology. We are not a nation under the same ideology, we are a nation of law to which every individual is recognized equally under. Singling out homosexuals and saying no, you do not have the same equality to choose as a heterosexual is inequality.


Marriage used to also be a property exchange of rites, where the woman was nothing more than property.
It then was changed and made into a law that was used to prevent interracial marriages.
Today against gays.
The whole millennia thing? Untrue.
Marriage and the definition of what marriage constitutes or represents has been constantly changing in various societies for hundreds of years.Basically male bovine feces.
Today on a state level it is nothing more than a contract that the state recognizes of legal rights and obligations between the two consenting adults. To which there is no logical rationale to prohibit any two consenting adults from entering into said state recognized contract of rites.

Man's past has been written in blood, in is not something that we should be necessarily proud of, but it is something that we must learn from..
But we must have standards; a high level for society to abide by.
This includes "marriage"...
Have two men "marry" each other or a man "marry" his horse make a sham or a joke of marriage.......
This we do not need...
This is an attempt to tear down a nation' moral values in order to be "politically correct."..
What next ?
And who is this Roseanne Barr ?
Just some foolish overweight "entertainer"...

 

[First Thought]

Re: Roseanne Ba says Blacks who supported Prop 8 are bigots and ignorant.

But we must have standards; a high level for society to abide by.
This includes "marriage"...

In your opinion.

Have two men "marry" each other or a man "marry" his horse make a sham or a joke of marriage.......

In your opinion.

This we do not need...
This is an attempt to tear down a nation' moral values in order to be "politically correct."..

In your opinion.

 

[jfuh]

Re: Roseanne Barr says blacks who supported Prop 8 are bigots and ignorant.

of course it is important to be tolerant in the style of Jesus. Jesus fraternized with prostitutes and tax collectors to show that God loves all of his children equally.

it does not follow that sinful behaviors should be encouraged or legalized, and no matter what you may say, the bible IS very clear about homosexuality being sinful.

Homosexuality is not a behavior, it is a state of being. A homosexual does not choose to be homosexual, they just are. Can you choose to be homosexual?
The bible is NOT clear at all about homosexuality being sinful, at least not the NT. The bible is clear about stoning heretics and how sinful being a heretic is. So?

worth looking into before flying off the handle? in either case, is flying off the handle appropriate? is it kind?

no one is bashing homosexuals.

Denying homosexuals equal rights is bashing by treating them as second class citizens.

 

[jfuh]

Re: Roseanne Ba says blracks who supported Prop 8 are bigots and ignorant.

However that argument cannot be described as bigotry or ignorance. The Conservative is arguing it for reasons not motivated by these concerns.

Well that is incorrect, the legal part does not remove the Western idea of marriage which is still current or at least was until a few years ago in most of the west. But this is not my argument, I was just showing how it need not be based on blind bigotry and ignorance but on a reasoned conservatism.

Someone whom is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions or prejudices - is by definition a bigot.
Denying homosexuals said right given the fact that doing so is treating them as second class citizens and the very core fact that gay marriage does nothing in impacting anyone else but themselves is at best ignorance.
It changes tradition? what tradition? Marriage has been changed countless times.

 

[jfuh]

Re: Roseanne Ba says Blacks who supported Prop 8 are bigots and ignorant.

Man's past has been written in blood, in is not something that we should be necessarily proud of, but it is something that we must learn from..
But we must have standards; a high level for society to abide by.
This includes "marriage"...
Have two men "marry" each other or a man "marry" his horse make a sham or a joke of marriage.......

Your argument is a joke. Horses, goats or whatever animal can not consent. Adolescents can not consent.
So your sick contrast of homosexuality to bestiality aside from demonstrating a demented sick mind and prejudice towards homosexuality but also demonstrates perfectly of the thread topic of those who are bigoted and ignorant.
How does gay marriage lower the level of society? What does marriage have anything to do with society?

 

[Harshaw]

Well, marriage has everything to do with society.

If it doesn't, what is a marriage? What it's purpose?

 

[emdash]

Re: Roseanne Barr says blacks who supported Prop 8 are bigots and ignorant.

Homosexuality is not a behavior, it is a state of being. A homosexual does not choose to be homosexual, they just are. Can you choose to be homosexual?

I am referring to homosexual behaviors, like getting married to a member of the same sex.

The bible is NOT clear at all about homosexuality being sinful, at least not the NT. The bible is clear about stoning heretics and how sinful being a heretic is. So?

In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion. Romans 1:27

is this still unclear?

Denying homosexuals equal rights is bashing by treating them as second class citizens.

no one in california may legally marry a member of his own gender.

 

[Wessexman]

Re: Roseanne Ba says blracks who supported Prop 8 are bigots and ignorant.

Someone whom is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions or prejudices - is by definition a bigot.

Maybe they're just unimpressed with your arguments.

Denying homosexuals said right given the fact that doing so is treating them as second class citizens and the very core fact that gay marriage does nothing in impacting anyone else but themselves is at best ignorance.
It changes tradition? what tradition? Marriage has been changed countless times.

Marriage in the Western tradition has always been between a man and women. That much hasn't changed.

 

[jfuh]

Re: Roseanne Ba says blracks who supported Prop 8 are bigots and ignorant.

Maybe they're just unimpressed with your arguments.

Marriage in the Western tradition has always been between a man and women. That much hasn't changed.

The variation has been of the recognition under state.
Western tradition has not always been one man one woman either - yet that was altered.
Is the US only a nation of Caucasian race? What of ME descent? African? South American and native? Asian? Pacific islander? Why only western tradition? This nation is of immigrants from multiple continents with multiple traditions, yet only one is respected?
As I've said, marriage has changed countless times in the past. Was never even recognized by the state until earlier last century and was done so for the purpose of recognizing property rights, not tradition or cultural observation.

 

[jfuh]

Re: Roseanne Barr says blacks who supported Prop 8 are bigots and ignorant.

I am referring to homosexual behaviors, like getting married to a member of the same sex.

Since when has marriage become a homosexual behavior? Homosexual is simply a state of attraction to the same sex - the acts associated would contain sex with the same sex - mostly exclusive to homosexuals (excluding bisexuals).

is this still unclear?

The full context of which

[26] Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. [27] In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.

Here Paul is describing how God punished the Gentiles by "giving them over" to various forms of sexual immorality and "every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity." As for other Jews of his day, one of Paul's prime examples of Gentile immorality is male-male sex (1:27). He also condemns "unnatural relations" by women (1:26), but the meaning of this is unclear. This may be sex between women, but recent research suggests that it more likely concerns women playing an unnaturally "aggressive" role in sex. Is an aggressive role for women such as reverse cowgirl then sinful?
Are we all going to have a bedsheet with a hole in it from now on so as to conform to this religiously correct sexual forms? Yeah right
Paul's distaste for excessive female sexual dominance and male-male sex correspond with other ancient aspects of his thought, like his command that women not cut their hair or pray with their heads uncovered (1 Corinthians 11:5-6). Those who isolate this as a proof text for condemning homosexuality, often ignore the point to which Paul is driving in this passage. As becomes clear in Romans 2, Paul is condemning someone for proclaiming the truth of God's judgment on Gentile sinners when "you do the same things" (Romans 2:2-3). This unknown judge is focusing on Gentile immorality when he should be focusing on his own forms of wickedness. Given this context, it is striking how contemporary Christians using Romans 1:26-27 fall into the same trap: focusing on the immorality they see in others when they should be seeking God's grace and love for themselves.

no one in california may legally marry a member of his own gender.

When? Today? sure, and it was because of the bigotry of prop 8.
Yesterday?
Just because it's legal/illegal doesn't make it legitimate for you to bash the gay community.
Jim crow laws come to mind.

 

[Layla_Z]

It has nothing to do with being black. If you voted to deny gay people the chance to marry than you are either a bigot or ignorant or both. I know that it harsh, but it doesn't change the facts. Why anyone would vote to deny someone the right to do something that hurts no one is beyond me. People need to mind their own business and not try to legislate their morality.

 

[Hatuey]

It has nothing to do with being black. If you voted to deny gay people the chance to marry than you are either a bigot or ignorant or both. I know that it harsh, but it doesn't change the facts. Why anyone would vote to deny someone the right to do something that hurts no one is beyond me. People need to mind their own business and not try to legislate their morality.

It's religious insecurity at it's best. If you're allowed to do something I don't believe in. My whole entire world comes crashing down. Think of it as the War of Christmas. If you say 'Happy Holidays' I need to go on a crusade.

 

[TurtleDude]

It has nothing to do with being black. If you voted to deny gay people the chance to marry than you are either a bigot or ignorant or both. I know that it harsh, but it doesn't change the facts. Why anyone would vote to deny someone the right to do something that hurts no one is beyond me. People need to mind their own business and not try to legislate their morality.

Gay men can marry women as surely as straight ones can. Clearly any law that prevents consensual relations between two competent adults is violative of essential concepts of fairness. Limiting marriage to a man and a woman seems less suspect

 

[Layla_Z]

It's religious insecurity at it's best. If you're allowed to do something I don't believe in. My whole entire world comes crashing down. Think of it as the War of Christmas. If you say 'Happy Holidays' I need to go on a crusade.

I agree. I am a Christian but I certainly don't think everyone needs to believe as I do. I don't have the right to stop people from doing things I think are wrong(unless they are hurting someone, which is not true in this case).

As for the "war on Christmas". Silly me, I always thought "Happy Holidays" was a way to say "Merry Christmas" and "Happy New Year" all together.