Ron Paul Signs 'Numbers USA' Pledge to Oppose Amnesty and Secure America's Borders

[hrdman2luv]

"The talk must stop. We must secure our borders now. A nation without secure borders is no nation at all."

ARLINGTON, Va. — Today, Republican presidential candidate and Texas Congressman Ron Paul signed the Numbers USA pledge. The pledge reaffirms Congressman Paul's longstanding opposition to amnesty and support for securing the borders.

Dr. Paul has introduced a six-point plan to deal with the current illegal immigration problem. On the subject, he has said: "The talk must stop. We must secure our borders now. A nation without secure borders is no nation at all."

Congressman Paul has received the endorsements of many groups and leaders that oppose illegal immigration. A list of such endorsements can be found at: Ron Paul 2008 Endorsements

Below is the Numbers USA pledge:

I pledge to oppose amnesty or any other special path to citizenship for the millions of foreign nationals unlawfully present in the United States. As President, I will fully implement enforcement measures that, over time, will lead to the attrition of our illegal immigrant population. I also pledge to make security of our borders a top priority of my administration.

Numbers USA includes six points of understanding as to what the pledge means and what it entails:

1. The 12 million illegal aliens now here will have to go home.

2. They will not get any legal status while here that allows them to remain long-term.

3. Once in their home countries, they may apply for re-admittance to the U.S. as immigrants, visitors or temporary workers through normal channels.

4. But they will not receive any special privileges on the basis of their having been in the U.S. illegally, such as being put to the front of a line.

5. There will be no new categories or programs through which they may re-enter.

6. There will not be an expansion of green cards in any existing categories that will speed up their movement to the front of the line.

 

[Gibberish]

Re: Ron Paul Signs 'Numbers USA' Pledge to Oppose Amnesty and Secure America's Border

I would wonder what resources he has projected would be involved with...

1. Forcing 12 million unwilling and undocumented individuals to leave the country
2. Making sure not a single additional illegal immigrant enters the United States while those already here are being hunted down and forced to leave.

It will take tens of thousands, if not hundreds, of officials to track down and force the 12 million to leave in a timely manner (a decade or so). Along with that many of the illegals will most likely need to be personally escorted to their country.

 

[danarhea]

Re: Ron Paul Signs 'Numbers USA' Pledge to Oppose Amnesty and Secure America's Border

I would wonder what resources he has projected would be involved with...

1. Forcing 12 million unwilling and undocumented individuals to leave the country
2. Making sure not a single additional illegal immigrant enters the United States while those already here are being hunted down and forced to leave.

It will take tens of thousands, if not hundreds, of officials to track down and force the 12 million to leave in a timely manner (a decade or so). Along with that many of the illegals will most likely need to be personally escorted to their country.

Not hard. Bring our military home from Iraq and put them on the border. Mission accomplished, for real this time.

 

[Gibberish]

Re: Ron Paul Signs 'Numbers USA' Pledge to Oppose Amnesty and Secure America's Border

Not hard. Bring our military home from Iraq and put them on the border. Mission accomplished, for real this time.

So our Military should be used as a police force to stop illegal immigrants from entering the country? Is the Military also going to be used to hunt for every illegal immigrant in the country?

 

[Tashah]

Re: Ron Paul Signs 'Numbers USA' Pledge to Oppose Amnesty and Secure America's Border

Moderator's Warning:

*BN* violation. Thread moved.

 

[Kushinator]

Re: Ron Paul Signs 'Numbers USA' Pledge to Oppose Amnesty and Secure America's Border

So our Military should be used as a police force to stop illegal immigrants from entering the country? Is the Military also going to be used to hunt for every illegal immigrant in the country?

No it should be used as a means of national defense. :roll:

 

[Gibberish]

Re: Ron Paul Signs 'Numbers USA' Pledge to Oppose Amnesty and Secure America's Border

No it should be used as a means of national defense. :roll:

So it should be used to police the borders for illegal immigrants? Should it also be used to police our ports for smuggling? This would be defending the nation in the same way as illegal immigrants.

 

[Kushinator]

Re: Ron Paul Signs 'Numbers USA' Pledge to Oppose Amnesty and Secure America's Border

So it should be used to police the borders for illegal immigrants? Should it also be used to police our ports for smuggling? This would be defending the nation in the same way as illegal immigrants.

It should be the first line of defense. Your use of the word police is being used as a type of fear tactic. Securing ones borders is an essential need to preserve democracy. Point being, how many illegal immigrants are able to vote?

If there is an unsecured border, whats to keep rouge extremist groups from bringing a nuclear weapon across that very border?

 

[Gibberish]

Re: Ron Paul Signs 'Numbers USA' Pledge to Oppose Amnesty and Secure America's Border

It should be the first line of defense. Your use of the word police is being used as a type of fear tactic. Securing ones borders is an essential need to preserve democracy. Point being, how many illegal immigrants are able to vote?

How do illegal immigrants in this country harm our established government?

No Illegal Immigrant should be allowed to vote unless they have stolen someone's identity or created a fake one that passed the registration proccess.

If there is an unsecured border, whats to keep rouge extremist groups from bringing a nuclear weapon across that very border?

The people who should be securing our borders are formal border police force, the National Guard, and Homeland Security. The Military, in regards to those in Iraq, should be utilized domestically under imminent threat only. They should NOT be used to make sure we don't get another illegal labor worker.

Using our Military as border police will be seen as a form of isolationism and a threat and possibly weakness to foreign countries. It will also show the weakness and incompetence of our border security and the policies we have had in place.

 

[hrdman2luv]

Re: Ron Paul Signs 'Numbers USA' Pledge to Oppose Amnesty and Secure America's Border

How do illegal immigrants in this country harm our established government?

There are several ways.
1. They reduce the value of labor. Which reduces the amount of taxes the Federal Government recieves. Which creates even larger problems.
2. Most illegals used a W1099. Which relieves their employers from paying the Social Security and other taxes out of their checks. The illegals don't have to worry about Taxes for about 2 or more years. And when the IRS goes looking for this person listed on the W1099, all they have to do it change Social Security numbers.
3. When they get paid, most of their money goes home to their families. There fore reducing the size of the tax base.
4. When a community is invaded, such as Lufkin Tx, and the jobs that were once American's, turn into illegals job, alot of Americans have to uproot and move to where there are jobs available for them. Which devistates not only the local economy, but also the school system, hospitals, Dr's., grocery stores, etc etc

No Illegal Immigrant should be allowed to vote unless they have stolen someone's identity or created a fake one that passed the registration proccess.

No Illegal Alien should be allowed to vote.period.



The people who should be securing our borders are formal border police force, the National Guard, and Homeland Security. The Military, in regards to those in Iraq, should be utilized domestically under imminent threat only. They should NOT be used to make sure we don't get another illegal labor worker.

So since the millions of illegals came in 10's or 100's at a time, instead of all at once, does that make the invasion less of an invasion? There are still up to 20 million that have invaded. Isn't the military suposed to protect this country from invasions?

Using our Military as border police will be seen as a form of isolationism and a threat and possibly weakness to foreign countries. It will also show the weakness and incompetence of our border security and the policies we have had in place.

Thats just perposterous. There will still be border check points for the ones who have a legal right to enter and leave this country. There will still be green cards for those who went through the correct legal process to enter this country.
Facts to ponder: There are over 200,000 in our prison system at a cost of $35,000 per person per year. Thats $7,000,000,000 it's costing us. $7 billion to house and feed illegals who have committed crimes. And that doesn't even count the ones that are in local and county jails. That doesn't include the amount it cost hospitals, and schools, and our welfare system. And you don't see this as an invasion?
Isolationism? Isolating ourselves from people who want to break the law is something I would support 24/7/365.
When your job is threatened by an illegal, when you have to wait behind illegals who can't even speak english in the emergency room cause your son broke his arm, when you see these things first hand like I have maybe you would understand.

Our military should be used against enemies both foreign and domestic. And coming to this country illegally, makes them an illegal criminal. And in my book, is the enemy.

On 9/11, al-queda killed almost 3,000 Americans. And they are enemy #1. How many Americans have been killed by illegals with guns, rape, drugs, Drunk Driving, etc etc?...........Over 35,000 in the last 15 years. And you don't see this as an invasion from the enemy.

 

[Gibberish]

Re: Ron Paul Signs 'Numbers USA' Pledge to Oppose Amnesty and Secure America's Border

Thats just perposterous. There will still be border check points for the ones who have a legal right to enter and leave this country. There will still be green cards for those who went through the correct legal process to enter this country.

I never said there won't be. But I question the use of resources if we have our Military personal, those trained for fighting against armed nations, being used to stop unarmed families swimming across a river to perform low income work that most Americans will not do.

Facts to ponder: There are over 200,000 in our prison system at a cost of $35,000 per person per year. Thats $7,000,000,000 it's costing us. $7 billion to house and feed illegals who have committed crimes. And that doesn't even count the ones that are in local and county jails. That doesn't include the amount it cost hospitals, and schools, and our welfare system. And you don't see this as an invasion?

I see it as a waste of our resources but I also don't believe that anyone who is not a US citizen should be left to die in the streets of our cities. Every single illegal immigrant that is treated at any hospital should be arrested. Every illegal immigrant that is arrested, no matter the charge, should be deported and their household investigated for other illegals.

Children of illegal immigrants shouldn't be able to attend our public schools. If parents are here illegal their children are illegal to, even if they are born here.

Illegals should be cut off from the use of any US resource. Once this happens there will be no positive for them coming here illegally.

Our military should be used against enemies both foreign and domestic. And coming to this country illegally, makes them an illegal criminal. And in my book, is the enemy.

Criminal != Enemy. We would not use our Military to round up Murder's, Rapists, Thieves, or Arsonists. Our Military should be used against imminent national security threats, such as an invading army or a terrorist attack.

The use of our Military in this scenario is "quick fix" for bad policies and loop holes we allow illegal immigrants to jump through and is a terrible use of resources. The policies should be changed and loop holes closed.

On 9/11, al-queda killed almost 3,000 Americans. And they are enemy #1. How many Americans have been killed by illegals with guns, rape, drugs, Drunk Driving, etc etc?...........Over 35,000 in the last 15 years. And you don't see this as an invasion from the enemy.

Again you are equating illegal activities to terrorist attacks. I could use your same logic and say that anyone that has ever committed a crime should be responded to with Military force. This would eliminate the job of our Police forces.

 

[Edify_Always_In_All_Ways]

Re: Ron Paul Signs 'Numbers USA' Pledge to Oppose Amnesty and Secure America's Border

I never said there won't be. But I question the use of resources if we have our Military personal, those trained for fighting against armed nations, being used to stop unarmed families swimming across a river to perform low income work that most Americans will not do.

How about we have them stop foreigners from entering our soil at will, possibly carrying illegal drugs or weapons?

Again you are equating illegal activities to terrorist attacks. I could use your same logic and say that anyone that has ever committed a crime should be responded to with Military force. This would eliminate the job of our Police forces.

These are non-citizens who commit crimes. If someone not from our country kills a citizen, why aren't they a terrorist? They may not have a specific political goal, but they're definitely in the jurisdiction of the military.

 

[hrdman2luv]

Re: Ron Paul Signs 'Numbers USA' Pledge to Oppose Amnesty and Secure America's Border

I never said there won't be. But I question the use of resources if we have our Military personal, those trained for fighting against armed nations, being used to stop unarmed families swimming across a river to perform low income work that most Americans will not do.

The low income jobs that you talk about used to be jobs that Americans fed, clothed, educated and provided health care for their families. If you havn't noticed, they aren't just picking oranges anymore. I'm a trucker by trade, and see them operating fork lifts, loading trucks, working in the offices or the recievers and shippers every single day. I see them working in plants that manufacture things. There were 7 illegals caught working in a power plant outside of Houston last year.
It only becomes a "job that American's won't do", when the value of the labor is reduced to a wage that American's can live on.
For example: For me to drive a truck, and be away from home for weeks at a time, I need a substancial wage to perform that job. When illegals are allowed to depreciate the value of that job to a certain point, I won't do it. So therefore, the job becomes a job that American's won't do.



I see it as a waste of our resources but I also don't believe that anyone who is not a US citizen should be left to die in the streets of our cities. Every single illegal immigrant that is treated at any hospital should be arrested. Every illegal immigrant that is arrested, no matter the charge, should be deported and their household investigated for other illegals.

They don't have to die in the streets. They can turn themselves in and be fed until they are returned to their country.
As far as our resources go, we could bring home our military. Re-open military bases that were closed under Bush sr. and Clinton. Build New bases on the borders. That will provide training and help economies along our borders. Most economies around military bases are usually quite strong.

Children of illegal immigrants shouldn't be able to attend our public schools. If parents are here illegal their children are illegal to, even if they are born here.

Illegals should be cut off from the use of any US resource. Once this happens there will be no positive for them coming here illegally.

Ron Paul has also introduced legislation to eliminate welfare for illegals. You should ask your congressmen why he/she didn't support it.



Criminal != Enemy. We would not use our Military to round up Murder's, Rapists, Thieves, or Arsonists. Our Military should be used against imminent national security threats, such as an invading army or a terrorist attack.

If we utilized our military to block illegals from coming into this country & deport illegals in our prison system, that would free up resources to our local and states to be able to help round up the American criminals. But some prisons are so flooded, that a lot of criminals get shorter sentences because of the over populated prisons. And with all the money that is free'd up by doing this, could be used to build more prisons and provide a better economy so that people can make better choices than crime.

The use of our Military in this scenario is "quick fix" for bad policies and loop holes we allow illegal immigrants to jump through and is a terrible use of resources. The policies should be changed and loop holes closed.

You have to secure the borders before anything else. Thats like putting air in your tire before you patch the leak.


Again you are equating illegal activities to terrorist attacks. I could use your same logic and say that anyone that has ever committed a crime should be responded to with Military force. This would eliminate the job of our Police forces.

Now your stretching what I'm saying. There is a huge difference between an American Murderer and an illgal murderer. And I think you know the difference. The illegal, if the border was secured, would have never been here to murder anyone.

 

[Gibberish]

Re: Ron Paul Signs 'Numbers USA' Pledge to Oppose Amnesty and Secure America's Border

The low income jobs that you talk about used to be jobs that Americans fed, clothed, educated and provided health care for their families. If you havn't noticed, they aren't just picking oranges anymore. I'm a trucker by trade, and see them operating fork lifts, loading trucks, working in the offices or the recievers and shippers every single day. I see them working in plants that manufacture things. There were 7 illegals caught working in a power plant outside of Houston last year.
It only becomes a "job that American's won't do", when the value of the labor is reduced to a wage that American's can live on.
For example: For me to drive a truck, and be away from home for weeks at a time, I need a substancial wage to perform that job. When illegals are allowed to depreciate the value of that job to a certain point, I won't do it. So therefore, the job becomes a job that American's won't do.

How do you know these individuals operating fork lifts, loading trucks, working in the offices or the receivers and shippers, are all illegal or are you simply seeing an immigrant and assuming they are illegal?

Why exactly is it your opinion that the responsibility lies with our Border security and not with the Employers providing work for these illegal immigrants? Employer's should be held accountable for hiring illegal immigrants. If 7 illegal immigrants were caught working in a power plant what happened to the owners of that power plant?

It should be unfathomable for employers to hire illegal immigrants. The consequences should greatly out size the cost of hiring a citizen.

They don't have to die in the streets. They can turn themselves in and be fed until they are returned to their country.

Which should happen once they enter the hospital for treatment.

As far as our resources go, we could bring home our military. Re-open military bases that were closed under Bush sr. and Clinton. Build New bases on the borders. That will provide training and help economies along our borders. Most economies around military bases are usually quite strong.

It costs money to run a war, even if it is domestic. Your talking about military resources that will indefinitely be allocating to border control or risk un-securing the border. What happens if we do go to a real war? Where is this extra military and billions of funding dollars going to come from that you allocated to border security?

Ron Paul has also introduced legislation to eliminate welfare for illegals. You should ask your congressmen why he/she didn't support it.

If they did not support it it was probably because it was a conservative bill and the eleceted Congressmen in my state are Democrat's.

If we utilized our military to block illegals from coming into this country & deport illegals in our prison system, that would free up resources to our local and states to be able to help round up the American criminals. But some prisons are so flooded, that a lot of criminals get shorter sentences because of the over populated prisons. And with all the money that is free'd up by doing this, could be used to build more prisons and provide a better economy so that people can make better choices than crime.

You have to secure the borders before anything else. Thats like putting air in your tire before you patch the leak.

No it's like removing all foreign objects from the road before you reach them so that you don't get anymore leaking tires before repairing the one you have.

Now your stretching what I'm saying. There is a huge difference between an American Murderer and an illgal murderer. And I think you know the difference. The illegal, if the border was secured, would have never been here to murder anyone.

And if those immigrants had never come here before and became citizens they would have never been able to kill either. You can't blame a specific demographic for the actions of others. The immigrants illegal status is not the reason they are driving drunk. You need to eliminate the cause to stop the effect.

A terrorist attack is not the same as an illegal immigrant driving drunk.