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Road Safety - Cycling

cabse5 said:
You're basing you safety as a bike rider on car drivers not making mistakes????
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Unfortunately we have to. Even with a bike lane there is always the drunk driver, the idiot texting, talking on their phone, or the speeding reckless nut that thinks they can get back that 10 minutes that they left late on a 5 minute drive. I have watched too many self centered drivers on some of these narrow roads pass a bicycle with out allowing the proper safe distance between them. I have gone back and timed how much longer it would have taken to just stay behind the bicycle. A lot of times it was less than 1 minute. So this self centered reckless driver is willing to kill another human being to make up 45 seconds on a drive somewhere. In most cases I have encountered a bicycle in the city we are talkin 10 or 20 seconds before the bicycle turns or I turned. I have watched cars tailgate a bicycle. There are just too many sick people out there unfortunately.
 
Again, these messages are why if there is no bike path or suitable empty sidewalk, a cyclist should ride dead center of the right lane. Let people honk or shout if they want to, it keeps you alive. A cyclist can do a good 20 to 25 mph with ease. If cars are really backing up, pull over and get off the road ever few blocks and let the built up line of cars go by - then get back dead center of the right lane. The danger isn't be deliberately hit by a vehicle, but accidentally.

Legal or not, police don't care if a bicycle is ridden on an empty sidewalk unless a business area were people could walk out a business door and get hit.
 
ecofarm said:
It makes giving a bike tour possible.

World keeps getting better.
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Yeah, but you need to buy more than one helmet...and they are expensive....thankfully I get a discount, my sister and bro in law have an electric bike store...
 
beefheart said:
Yeah, but you need to buy more than one helmet...and they are expensive....thankfully I get a discount, my sister and bro in law have an electric bike store...
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It's such a meaningful upgrade. I might take it over carbon.
 
ecofarm said:
It's such a meaningful upgrade. I might take it over carbon.
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It really is cool, the manuals are pretty lame though. There are 3 buttons, you have to learn the combinations...
 
if you are going 10MPH and the car is going 30MPH. Against traffic is 40MPH equivalent speed. both parties have less time and higher speed of impact.

Ride with traffic and get the viewing mirror so you can see when a car is coming up from behind.

There are too few bike friendly roads in my neck of the woods. I have seen better bike accommodations in Canada. It is so pathetic.
 
joko104 said:
Again, these messages are why if there is no bike path or suitable empty sidewalk, a cyclist should ride dead center of the right lane. Let people honk or shout if they want to, it keeps you alive. A cyclist can do a good 20 to 25 mph with ease. If cars are really backing up, pull over and get off the road ever few blocks and let the built up line of cars go by - then get back dead center of the right lane. The danger isn't be deliberately hit by a vehicle, but accidentally.

Legal or not, police don't care if a bicycle is ridden on an empty sidewalk unless a business area were people could walk out a business door and get hit.
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That is another thing. There are too many inconsiderate cyclist out there who won't pull over on a long country road and let cars go by. Then you have cars passing risking a head on of cutting back into the lane early taking out the cyclist. It is sad how many inconsiderate self center people there are on bicycles as well as in cars.
 
Here in Los Angeles, many bike riders simply use the sidewalks.

As a pedestrian, I am outraged and endangered by them.


But I realize that the streets are really scary for bike riders.


We now have electric scooters. They are supposed to be used only in the streets. Of course, most scooter riders ignore the rule and ride on the sidewalks, thus endangering pedestrians who don't know if any scooters are behind them. (I just read this morning that Paris has decided to crack down on scooters.)
 
Bodhisattva said:
Every time I see a cyclist riding in traffic like that I think... dang, they have "the right" to do that... but gosh darn if that guy ain't a ****ing moron for doing it. And when I see a body bag covering a guy that did that I think... what the hell did that moron expect would happen by riding in his little Tour de France outfit among 2,000 lb cars?
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Actually that is the safest thing for a bicyclist to do. That's why its the law. Not only does it make you optimally visible.. and importantly predictable. But it saves you from people opening their car doors etc.

You decide to right in the right side of the lane.. and so one car pulls up beside your or worse.. in your blind spot.. and a person opens their car door,, and you try to swerve to avoid it..and you swerve right into a car and are dead.

IF however, you are in the middle of the lane and are visible, and predictable.. you are much much safer.
 
PIPEWRENCH said:
That is another thing. There are too many inconsiderate cyclist out there who won't pull over on a long country road and let cars go by. Then you have cars passing risking a head on of cutting back into the lane early taking out the cyclist. It is sad how many inconsiderate self center people there are on bicycles as well as in cars.
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In many cases.. that's because "pulling over on a country road".. is hazardous for a bicyclist. There are hazards on the side of country roads like drop offs, rocks, goat heads (out west).. etc.. that can puncture a tire leaving you stranded.. or could put you in a ditch.

If a bicyclist isn't moving over.. its 99% likely that there is a good reason they cannot or should not. So simply slow down for the couple of minutes.. until you can pass safely.

Its just that simple.
 
jaeger19 said:
In many cases.. that's because "pulling over on a country road".. is hazardous for a bicyclist. There are hazards on the side of country roads like drop offs, rocks, goat heads (out west).. etc.. that can puncture a tire leaving you stranded.. or could put you in a ditch.

If a bicyclist isn't moving over.. its 99% likely that there is a good reason they cannot or should not. So simply slow down for the couple of minutes.. until you can pass safely.

Its just that simple.
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No there are self centered inconsiderate ass holes riding bicycles as well as driving cars.
 
TheParser said:
Here in Los Angeles, many bike riders simply use the sidewalks.

As a pedestrian, I am outraged and endangered by them.


But I realize that the streets are really scary for bike riders.


We now have electric scooters. They are supposed to be used only in the streets. Of course, most scooter riders ignore the rule and ride on the sidewalks, thus endangering pedestrians who don't know if any scooters are behind them. (I just read this morning that Paris has decided to crack down on scooters.)
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Almost without exception (where there are NO pedestrians), any scooter not on the road should be ticketed as if a car driving on the sidewalk.

Here, most bicycles and handicap electric wheel chairs and carts go on the sidewalk, which usually are 1 foot wider than a typical sidewalk - some 2 feet wider. They are so sparcely used any pedestrian -so it is easy to step out of the way of a bicycle, which generally will also slow way down - with everyone preferring this to bicycles on the road, which can be dangerous. However, some people do ride their bicycles on the street. Not many. I wouldn't. Not under any circumstances. That 45 mph speed limit sign really means 55. Bicycles should NEVER be on that fast a road. Ever.
 
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PIPEWRENCH said:
That is another thing. There are too many inconsiderate cyclist out there who won't pull over on a long country road and let cars go by. Then you have cars passing risking a head on of cutting back into the lane early taking out the cyclist. It is sad how many inconsiderate self center people there are on bicycles as well as in cars.
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Some roads are not suited for both cars and bicycles. However, bicycles are the mode of transportation of some people so they have no option. It's no fun getting stuck behind a farm tractor, a pre-fab house half being moved or traffic slowed by an accident either.

The danger to a bicyclist of "moving over" is that is what gets them killed. To pass the cyclist the car will get near or on the center line, looking in his rear view mirror so not to be cutting someone off - and looking for oncoming cars in the lane to his left - all meaning the driver is NOT watching bicyclist to not hit the person. Bicycles, particularly uphill, don't travel in a perfectly straight line. They a bit weave and even tilt back and forth.

Then "BAM" - the vehicle's rear view mirror hits the cyclist. Hopefully, it is a modern give-away mirror so it ONLY suddenly throws the cyclist face into the concrete curb - with a huge bruise or headache from the impact of the mirror. If it is an older pickup truck or any vehicle with towing mirrors - the cyclist is probably killed.

There are hundreds of annoyances that slow a person down on the road. You just have to live with it, including cyclists. Then again, remember, drivers are the #1 violent-death killer in the world, everywhere in the world, and the #1 violent-injuries assailants too. One million deaths. Millions of violent-trauma injuries. The bicyclist does not endanger you. You do endanger the bicyclist.
 
Irredentist said:
It is every drivers basic responsibility to pay attention to what's in front of them. So if they hit a bike, that's on them.
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I was driving in the mountains (winding two lane road) in Colorado when I came upon about 12 to 16 bicyclists huffing it up the mountain in low gear doing about 5 mph I would guess. They blocked the whole lane, and it was so winding that there was no safe place to pass. They just wouldn't move over. Was I supposed to follow them all the way to the next town, some 20 miles away? I was actually about the third car in line behind them. Then some hothead in a Jeep Wrangler shot past all of us and laid on the horn and scared the hell out of the cyclists who all got out of his way pronto. Then the rest of us followed. I don't approve of the Wrangler drivers tactics but it got the job done. Cyclists can be assholes.
 
99% of the time there is some where to pull over and let the line of cars piled up behind you by if you are considerate. I do it all the time puling my trailer and riding my bicycle. No I hate to say it but there are too many self-centered people out there without any courtesy in them.
 
When was the last time a bicyclist ran into a car, killing the driver?

I understand some motorists would rather there be dead cyclists due to "pulling over" than be slowed down. But, then, that is the exact attitude of the drivers who kill bicyclists. Bicyclists who pull over to let cars by are the bicyclists who die - to the driver sobbing "but I didn't MEAN to hit him. I didn't know my mirror stuck out that far. Sorry, my bad."

The only assholes on bicycles are the ones who ride down the right side of cars to get to the front at stop lights, and who run stop lights and stop signs.

As for being stuck behind a bicyclist who won't pull over to give you opportunity to hit him in the head with your mirror? Tough ****. Live with it. No one says you have to like it.
 
Waddy said:
I was driving in the mountains (winding two lane road) in Colorado when I came upon about 12 to 16 bicyclists huffing it up the mountain in low gear doing about 5 mph I would guess. They blocked the whole lane, and it was so winding that there was no safe place to pass. They just wouldn't move over. Was I supposed to follow them all the way to the next town, some 20 miles away? I was actually about the third car in line behind them. Then some hothead in a Jeep Wrangler shot past all of us and laid on the horn and scared the hell out of the cyclists who all got out of his way pronto. Then the rest of us followed. I don't approve of the Wrangler drivers tactics but it got the job done. Cyclists can be assholes.
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Or you could have been patient.. and in all likelihood.. when it was safe for those bicyclists to let you pass.. they would have. In all likelihood.. they got over and got lucky that they could do so. In fact.. its possible that some of them may have gotten injured after you passed..if they could not get over safely or if they got slowed down to much and couldn't get out of their pedals fast enough.

Of course you were happily calling them a holes.. when a couple of them were lying in the road after falling. Hoping to heck that another car didn't run over them.
 
jaeger19 said:
Or you could have been patient.. and in all likelihood.. when it was safe for those bicyclists to let you pass.. they would have. In all likelihood.. they got over and got lucky that they could do so. In fact.. its possible that some of them may have gotten injured after you passed..if they could not get over safely or if they got slowed down to much and couldn't get out of their pedals fast enough.

Of course you were happily calling them a holes.. when a couple of them were lying in the road after falling. Hoping to heck that another car didn't run over them.
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They could have got over most anytime. The Wrangler made them move.
 
Waddy said:
They could have got over most anytime. The Wrangler made them move.
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actually probably not. It was probably unsafe for them to do so.
 
jaeger19 said:
actually probably not. It was probably unsafe for them to do so.
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We in the car line followed them for probably 5 miles. They could have moved into single file and been fine, and the car line could have passed them safely.
 
Waddy said:
We in the car line followed them for probably 5 miles. They could have moved into single file and been fine, and the car line could have passed them safely.
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Bingo.. that's dangerous. What you describe is extremely dangerous of bicycles. (and motorcycles by the way..).. What you are stating is that a bicycle and a car should share the SAME LANE. side by side. That's very dangerous. It encourages a driver to pass when its not actually safe to do so. IF you are not safe to pull out into the opposite lane, and pass... then its generally not safe to pass a bicyclist in the same lane as you. you can not only hit them with your mirrors.. or if you are partially out in the other lane.. when its really not safe to pass and use the whole lane... if another car comes.. you have no where to go other than to swerve back into the full lane and hit the bicyclist.

Plus the bicyclist has to deal with potential wash from your car.. and if they have to react to an obstacle in the road, they have nowhere to go because you are sharing the lane with them.

The same safety rules apply to motorcycles.. though obviously they can keep up with traffic better. But..they also are taught that to safely operate a motorcycle...you need to take up enough lane to discourage a driver of a car.. to try and share the lane with them. That's in part why motorcycles in a group travel in a staggered column.


In fact..in most accidents involving bicycles (and motorcycles)..and cars.. the car driver stated "I never saw the bicycle"...and that's because the bicyclists wasn't visible enough... for example traveling on the right side of the road.. so the car driver just so most of the lane..and not the bicyclist that was riding a foot inside the white line.
 
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