Right-wing media jump to defend Palin after "crib note" criticism

[ReverendHellh0und]

Only to a point. It really can be measured. Again, where did the violence go down, and what was happening. Objectively look at it.




Nothing unproven about it.





Later we paid them (which also was not part of the surge). We did not at first. It was their movement.






If it was effective, we would see some progress, starting small and slowly getting better. We did not see it. We didn't see anything until the awakening decided to take charge. Follow the timeline.




Translation: "Reverend_Hellh0und has nothing and can't dispute the facts." Gottcha. :doh

This third grade debate style of yours is growing tedious at best. I recall it one of the fundamental reasons I found your old stomping grounds boring and sophomoric at best.


You make up an opinion, that no one shares, and pretend its fact, then you claim I can't dispute your "facts" when I clearly did....



Al Jazeera English - Middle East - Baghdad to pay Sunni groups


The Awakening groups emerged in 2005 when Sunni tribesmen, who had previously fought the US military and Iraqi government forces, allied with US forces, accepting arms, money and training

 

[Boo Radley]

This third grade debate style of yours is growing tedious at best. I recall it one of the fundamental reasons I found your old stomping grounds boring and sophomoric at best.


You make up an opinion, that no one shares, and pretend its fact, then you claim I can't dispute your "facts" when I clearly did....



Al Jazeera English - Middle East - Baghdad to pay Sunni groups


The Awakening groups emerged in 2005 when Sunni tribesmen, who had previously fought the US military and Iraqi government forces, allied with US forces, accepting arms, money and training

Says the kindergartner. :rofl


But where do you think that disputes anything? I said this myself. I stated we paid them. You've got a summary article. I gave a timeline. Please, try do your homework better.

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

Says the kindergartner. :rofl

As a former mod, Shouldn't you know the difference between claiming ones argument tedious and sophomoric, and straight up name calling?


Please compose yourself and show a modicum of self control.

But where do you think that disputes anything? I said this myself. I stated we paid them. You've got a summary article. I gave a timeline. Please, try do your homework better.

Your all over the map. We payed the awakening while providing the firepower via the surge, it was a resounding success despite you. :shrug:

 

[Boo Radley]

Your all over the map. We payed the awakening while providing the firepower via the surge, it was a resounding success despite you. :shrug:

You are simply not following. Iraqis make up the majority of who we were fighting. They decided to stop. We didn't coax them. We didn't scare them. We didn't force them. They decided and came to us. The surge played no role in it.

Yes, we paid them and armed them, but they were who we were fighting. If they didn't choose to do something different, there's nothing to suggest we wouldn't still be fighting them.

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

You are simply not following. Iraqis make up the majority of who we were fighting. They decided to stop. We didn't coax them. We didn't scare them. We didn't force them. They decided and came to us. The surge played no role in it.

Yes, we paid them and armed them, but they were who we were fighting. If they didn't choose to do something different, there's nothing to suggest we wouldn't still be fighting them.

circular logic, LOVE IT! :thumbs:


so we didn't coax them, we paid them, but that's not coaxing, and that means the surge was pointless, and we should have air dropped fiddy's instead of kicking ass and taking names.


Any yet shockingly you haven't a shred of support for your inane position.

 

[Boo Radley]

circular logic, LOVE IT! :thumbs:


so we didn't coax them, we paid them, but that's not coaxing, and that means the surge was pointless, and we should have air dropped fiddy's instead of kicking ass and taking names.


Any yet shockingly you haven't a shred of support for your inane position.

Like I said, try to follow. We did this after the fact. That's why the timeline is important. We joined in late. The surge didn't make them. Wasn't even part of it.

Without their change, their effort, what would have happened?

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

Like I said, try to follow. We did this after the fact. That's why the timeline is important. We joined in late. The surge didn't make them. Wasn't even part of it.

Without their change, their effort, what would have happened?

Lets pretend you are correct. What would happened? :roll:

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

Moderator's Warning:

Let's simmer down with the personal attacks and innuendo.

 

[ptif219]

I'm hardly anti-military. Served in the 82nd Airborne. But, that is in keeping with your simplistic approach to things. No, it merely addresses facts you don't care for. I understand that. You fail to dispute the facts in any way. Let me list them again:

1. The awakening played a larger role.

2. It started before the surge, and was not part of the surge.

3. The awakening was not started by the US.

4. The surge was in place for months and showing no progress until the Sunnis decided to move in a different direction.

Dispute facts if you can.

You are saying our soldiers did squat and it was all Iraqi's that is crap and anti- military trying to demean what our troops have done over there.

 

[ptif219]

I'm hardly anti-military. Served in the 82nd Airborne. But, that is in keeping with your simplistic approach to things. No, it merely addresses facts you don't care for. I understand that. You fail to dispute the facts in any way. Let me list them again:

1. The awakening played a larger role.

2. It started before the surge, and was not part of the surge.

3. The awakening was not started by the US.

4. The surge was in place for months and showing no progress until the Sunnis decided to move in a different direction.

Dispute facts if you can.

Prove your claims without using leftwing hit pieces.

 

[Boo Radley]

Prove your claims without using leftwing hit pieces.

I mostly use mainstream sources. But, you mistake conclusions as being something that invalidates facts. The timeline is the timeline regardless of the conclusions. So, while you may disagree with a view, you can't change the timeline. And when all you ever use is biased sources, you really have no room to complain. I ask that you dispute the timeline if you can.

 

[Boo Radley]

You are saying our soldiers did squat and it was all Iraqi's that is crap and anti- military trying to demean what our troops have done over there.

Not what I'm saying at all. That's merely an ignorant and overly emotional reading of what I'm saying. I'm saying that what made the difference was the Iraqi effort. It is not an insult to say that there are things in life we can't control. This is true for everyone, even for good, hard working, competent people. Even if our troops were super human, greater than all people ever, anywhere, at any time, or that will ever be, there would still be things beyond their control. Iraq is up to Iraqis. Only they can save their country.

I know how much we want to see our people as being able to control all things, but it just isn't possible for any people. And the fact is, as hard as we were trying, as good as the work we were doing was, all to be praised for sure, there was simply little progress until the Iraqis themselves made a change. They control their actions, not us.

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

I mostly use mainstream sources. But, you mistake conclusions as being something that invalidates facts. The timeline is the timeline regardless of the conclusions. So, while you may disagree with a view, you can't change the timeline. And when all you ever use is biased sources, you really have no room to complain. I ask that you dispute the timeline if you can.

:lamo


Seriously....



:lamo

 

[Boo Radley]

:lamo


Seriously....



:lamo

Yep, seriously.

 

[ptif219]

I mostly use mainstream sources. But, you mistake conclusions as being something that invalidates facts. The timeline is the timeline regardless of the conclusions. So, while you may disagree with a view, you can't change the timeline. And when all you ever use is biased sources, you really have no room to complain. I ask that you dispute the timeline if you can.

You have not shown the time line just Bush hit pieces and your opinions.

 

[ptif219]

Not what I'm saying at all. That's merely an ignorant and overly emotional reading of what I'm saying. I'm saying that what made the difference was the Iraqi effort. It is not an insult to say that there are things in life we can't control. This is true for everyone, even for good, hard working, competent people. Even if our troops were super human, greater than all people ever, anywhere, at any time, or that will ever be, there would still be things beyond their control. Iraq is up to Iraqis. Only they can save their country.

I know how much we want to see our people as being able to control all things, but it just isn't possible for any people. And the fact is, as hard as we were trying, as good as the work we were doing was, all to be praised for sure, there was simply little progress until the Iraqis themselves made a change. They control their actions, not us.

You give all the credit to Iraqi's like our troops did nothing that is demeaning our troops and pure BS

 

[Boo Radley]

You give all the credit to Iraqi's like our troops did nothing that is demeaning our troops and pure BS

Again, a poor reading of what I said. I never said we did nothing. Our troops have done quite well. They are brave, dedicated, and professional. But they are not god. They have no magic wands. Reality is that no one can do what is needed for someone else. The fact is Iraq has always been up to the Iraqis. It continues to be. And will be long after we go.

I truly believe that like far too many you approach this emotionally. As such, you can't look at it as anything other than our great success. Objectivity requires you put your emotion aside and look at the facts alone. The fact is, if the Sunnis keep fighting, this is still going on. Fact is, the surge wasn't the reason for their change of heart. Fact is, they are the greater factor in the present relative calm (remember, people are still being killed today).

 

[Boo Radley]

You have not shown the time line just Bush hit pieces and your opinions.

IN a few articles, the timeline was presented. Here's another:

The Obama campaign was quick to note that the Anbar Awakening began in the fall of 2006, several months before President Bush even announced the troop escalation strategy, which became known as the surge. (No less an authority than Gen. David H. Petraeus, the top commander in Iraq, testified before Congress this spring that the Awakening “started before the surge (fact), but then was very much enabled by the surge(opinion).”)

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/24/us/politics/24check.html

COOPER: In other words, he's saying the surge made the Sunni awakening possible, except the timeline is wrong.

The surge was announced in January of 2007, with troops starting to arrive in early spring. Colonel Sean MacFarland, who McCain mentions, briefed reporters on the awakening back in September of 2006.

Here's what "The New York Times" said in April of 2007 -- quote -- "The turnabout began last September, when a federation of tribes in the Ramadi area came together as the Anbar Salvation Council to oppose the fundamentalist militants of Al Qaeda in Mesopotamia."

And this from a recent history of Iraq in "Foreign Affairs" magazine: "The awakening began in Anbar Province more than a year before the surge and took off in the summer and fall of 2006 in Ramadi and elsewhere, long before extra U.S. forces started flowing into Iraq in February and March of 2007." We will have more on this shortly.

CNN.com - Transcripts

 

[ptif219]

Again, a poor reading of what I said. I never said we did nothing. Our troops have done quite well. They are brave, dedicated, and professional. But they are not god. They have no magic wands. Reality is that no one can do what is needed for someone else. The fact is Iraq has always been up to the Iraqis. It continues to be. And will be long after we go.

I truly believe that like far too many you approach this emotionally. As such, you can't look at it as anything other than our great success. Objectivity requires you put your emotion aside and look at the facts alone. The fact is, if the Sunnis keep fighting, this is still going on. Fact is, the surge wasn't the reason for their change of heart. Fact is, they are the greater factor in the present relative calm (remember, people are still being killed today).

Show proof

 

[ptif219]

IN a few articles, the timeline was presented. Here's another:

The Obama campaign was quick to note that the Anbar Awakening began in the fall of 2006, several months before President Bush even announced the troop escalation strategy, which became known as the surge. (No less an authority than Gen. David H. Petraeus, the top commander in Iraq, testified before Congress this spring that the Awakening “started before the surge (fact), but then was very much enabled by the surge(opinion).”)

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/24/us/politics/24check.html

COOPER: In other words, he's saying the surge made the Sunni awakening possible, except the timeline is wrong.

The surge was announced in January of 2007, with troops starting to arrive in early spring. Colonel Sean MacFarland, who McCain mentions, briefed reporters on the awakening back in September of 2006.

Here's what "The New York Times" said in April of 2007 -- quote -- "The turnabout began last September, when a federation of tribes in the Ramadi area came together as the Anbar Salvation Council to oppose the fundamentalist militants of Al Qaeda in Mesopotamia."

And this from a recent history of Iraq in "Foreign Affairs" magazine: "The awakening began in Anbar Province more than a year before the surge and took off in the summer and fall of 2006 in Ramadi and elsewhere, long before extra U.S. forces started flowing into Iraq in February and March of 2007." We will have more on this shortly.

CNN.com - Transcripts

Obama blame Bush!!!!

 

[Groucho]

When I was on the debate team in college, I was always told: The best way to win an argument is not through logic, facts, or evidence. Simply roll over on your side and laugh at the other person. They will be so impressed with your command of debate techniques that you win, automatically.

And what's best is that you don't even have to know anything about what you're talking about! If the person you are debating is on the other team, then automatically laugh at their views!

No one will ever suspect that deep down inside you really don't know a thing about the issue! It's perfect!

 

[Donc]

When I was on the debate team in college, I was always told: The best way to win an argument is not through logic, facts, or evidence. Simply roll over on your side and laugh at the other person. They will be so impressed with your command of debate techniques that you win, automatically.

And what's best is that you don't even have to know anything about what you're talking about! If the person you are debating is on the other team, then automatically laugh at their views!

No one will ever suspect that deep down inside you really don't know a thing about the issue! It's perfect!

Did you notice that the OP was derailed about ten pages back from Sarah Palin, to the surge in Iraq? Kinda makes one wonder why doesn’t it?

For what its worth, I think Palin is in this for the dough, she isn’t thinking about running for President. Might even be a book in the offering for the kool-aid drinkers when her speaking fees start tailing off.

Her and Tad, or whatever his name is, will sail off into the sunset, headed to the sunshine and white beaches of our fiftieth state when this ride is over and laugh at all of this.

 

[Boo Radley]

Show proof

Evidence. I showed evidence. The timeline is pretty clear. And the surged played no role in in. That's clear by the timeline.

 

[Boo Radley]

Obama blame Bush!!!!

Bush blamed Clinton. :roll:

Keep dodging.

 

[ptif219]

Evidence. I showed evidence. The timeline is pretty clear. And the surged played no role in in. That's clear by the timeline.

What timeline? The one your opinion says or the one your bash Bush articles say?