Requirements for Russia to see lifting of sanctions (1 Viewer)

[Roadvirus]

Requirements for Russian sanctions being lifted to be added to any permanent peace deal:

1. Vladimir Putin steps down as President of Russia.
2. Pullout of all Russian troops from Ukrainian territory, including the so-called "separatist" areas & Crimea.
3. Cessation of Russian weapons deliveries to the so-called "separatist" areas & Crimea.
4. All Russian individuals, Military & Civilian (including Vladimir Putin), alleged to have been involved in war crimes as determined by the International Criminal Court must turn themselves in to the ICC for trial.
5. Russia agrees to forfeit permanent seat & veto power on United Nations Security Council for 10 years.
6. Russia pays the full tab for any damage done to Ukraine's infrastructure (utilities, Hospitals, roads, bridges & highways, railways, airports & buses), Government buildings (including Schools) and any memorials to military and/or civilian individuals or groups.
7. Sanctions to be placed on Russia at the discretion of individual nations if any of the above requirements are not met.

 

[Mr Person]

I do not have sufficient expertise to opine beyond noting the obvious: they have to be conditions that do not prevent Putin claiming victory to his people.

Otherwise, it's a long bloody and murderous slog, lasting until they win or pack up and go home a la Afghanistan (or the unlikely deposition of Putin). I'm not sure how victory-ish those sound. I'm also not sure how good an idea it would be to offer a sweeter deal.

Ukraine should be and is front and central in deal cutting. They are the ones bleeding.

 

[noonereal]

Requirements for Russian sanctions being lifted to be added to any permanent peace deal:

1. Vladimir Putin steps down as President of Russia.
2. Pullout of all Russian troops from Ukrainian territory, including the so-called "separatist" areas & Crimea.
3. Cessation of Russian weapons deliveries to the so-called "separatist" areas & Crimea.
4. All Russian individuals, Military & Civilian (including Vladimir Putin), alleged to have been involved in war crimes as determined by the International Criminal Court must turn themselves in to the ICC for trial.
5. Russia agrees to forfeit permanent seat & veto power on United Nations Security Council for 10 years.
6. Russia pays the full tab for any damage done to Ukraine's infrastructure (utilities, Hospitals, roads, bridges & highways, railways, airports & buses), Government buildings (including Schools) and any memorials to military and/or civilian individuals or groups.
7. Sanctions to be placed on Russia at the discretion of individual nations if any of the above requirements are not met.

I wish people knew how to do a poll.

 

[Tigerace117]

Requirements for Russian sanctions being lifted to be added to any permanent peace deal:

1. Vladimir Putin steps down as President of Russia.
2. Pullout of all Russian troops from Ukrainian territory, including the so-called "separatist" areas & Crimea.
3. Cessation of Russian weapons deliveries to the so-called "separatist" areas & Crimea.
4. All Russian individuals, Military & Civilian (including Vladimir Putin), alleged to have been involved in war crimes as determined by the International Criminal Court must turn themselves in to the ICC for trial.
5. Russia agrees to forfeit permanent seat & veto power on United Nations Security Council for 10 years.
6. Russia pays the full tab for any damage done to Ukraine's infrastructure (utilities, Hospitals, roads, bridges & highways, railways, airports & buses), Government buildings (including Schools) and any memorials to military and/or civilian individuals or groups.
7. Sanctions to be placed on Russia at the discretion of individual nations if any of the above requirements are not met.

Number five alone is enough to scupper the whole thing. No major nation is going to give up its veto power or permanent seat, even temporarily.

 

[Gatsby]

Requirements for Russian sanctions being lifted to be added to any permanent peace deal:

1. Vladimir Putin steps down as President of Russia.
2. Pullout of all Russian troops from Ukrainian territory, including the so-called "separatist" areas & Crimea.
3. Cessation of Russian weapons deliveries to the so-called "separatist" areas & Crimea.
4. All Russian individuals, Military & Civilian (including Vladimir Putin), alleged to have been involved in war crimes as determined by the International Criminal Court must turn themselves in to the ICC for trial.
5. Russia agrees to forfeit permanent seat & veto power on United Nations Security Council for 10 years.
6. Russia pays the full tab for any damage done to Ukraine's infrastructure (utilities, Hospitals, roads, bridges & highways, railways, airports & buses), Government buildings (including Schools) and any memorials to military and/or civilian individuals or groups.
7. Sanctions to be placed on Russia at the discretion of individual nations if any of the above requirements are not met.

The key is to give Russia an exit ramp. As Sun Tzu said, "Build your enemy a golden bridge across which he can retreat." We don't want to back Putin into a corner.

The sanctions don't have to be an all-or-nothing situation, but I think it would be good to let Russia know that most of the sanctions will be lifted if they withdraw from the non-Crimea parts of Ukraine, basically going back to before last month. Not all of the sanctions, but most.

This list of demands would be an absolute non-starter for Russia. There's no reason the decision-makers would ever agree to it. And even if someone pushes Putin out of a window and withdraws all Russian troops tomorrow, it's not clear to me that such onerous sanctions would be in anyone's best interests. That's how WWI ended, and it led to the Nazis eventually coming to power when the Weimar Republic wasn't allowed to succeed.

 

[Gateman_Wen]

Requirements for Russian sanctions being lifted to be added to any permanent peace deal:

1. Vladimir Putin steps down as President of Russia.
2. Pullout of all Russian troops from Ukrainian territory, including the so-called "separatist" areas & Crimea.
3. Cessation of Russian weapons deliveries to the so-called "separatist" areas & Crimea.
4. All Russian individuals, Military & Civilian (including Vladimir Putin), alleged to have been involved in war crimes as determined by the International Criminal Court must turn themselves in to the ICC for trial.
5. Russia agrees to forfeit permanent seat & veto power on United Nations Security Council for 10 years.
6. Russia pays the full tab for any damage done to Ukraine's infrastructure (utilities, Hospitals, roads, bridges & highways, railways, airports & buses), Government buildings (including Schools) and any memorials to military and/or civilian individuals or groups.
7. Sanctions to be placed on Russia at the discretion of individual nations if any of the above requirements are not met.

It's a nice wish list, but it's as likely to happen as Russia's original demands to Ukraine.

 

[HIP56948]

The world shouldn't punish them too harshly. When the captive is punished into feeling that life is not worth living...He/They may choose to punish
everybody and (Unfortunately), He/They have the means to do it.

 

[coyote505]

I do not have sufficient expertise to opine beyond noting the obvious: they have to be conditions that do not prevent Putin claiming victory to his people.

Otherwise, it's a long bloody and murderous slog, lasting until they win or pack up and go home a la Afghanistan (or the unlikely deposition of Putin). I'm not sure how victory-ish those sound. I'm also not sure how good an idea it would be to offer a sweeter deal.

Ukraine should be and is front and central in deal cutting. They are the ones bleeding.

As they are the aggrieved party, we should put Ukraine in the driver's seat on any negotiations. But we need to give them anything and everything they can use to slaughter Russian troops, until Russia limps home with their tails between their legs.

Our mistake in WWI was that the war was too easy on Germany, being fought on other peoples' land, and the peace was too hard. This made them think that war was preferable to peace. We did better in WWII, flattening Germany in the war, then treating them humanely afterward. They have been much better behaved since then.

 

[Kreton]

Requirements for Russian sanctions being lifted to be added to any permanent peace deal:

1. Vladimir Putin steps down as President of Russia.
2. Pullout of all Russian troops from Ukrainian territory, including the so-called "separatist" areas & Crimea.
3. Cessation of Russian weapons deliveries to the so-called "separatist" areas & Crimea.
4. All Russian individuals, Military & Civilian (including Vladimir Putin), alleged to have been involved in war crimes as determined by the International Criminal Court must turn themselves in to the ICC for trial.
5. Russia agrees to forfeit permanent seat & veto power on United Nations Security Council for 10 years.
6. Russia pays the full tab for any damage done to Ukraine's infrastructure (utilities, Hospitals, roads, bridges & highways, railways, airports & buses), Government buildings (including Schools) and any memorials to military and/or civilian individuals or groups.
7. Sanctions to be placed on Russia at the discretion of individual nations if any of the above requirements are not met.

My list, and the only thing I would see as unnegotiable, is for Russia to greatly reduce their nuclear arsenal.

 

[Kreton]

The world shouldn't punish them too harshly. When the captive is punished into feeling that life is not worth living...He/They may choose to punish
everybody and (Unfortunately), He/They have the means to do it.

Allowing Russia to destroy countries and murder people and threaten the world with severe consequence because of fear will lead to a worse outcome than dealing with them.

 

[HIP56948]

Allowing Russia to destroy countries and murder people and threaten the world with severe consequence because of fear will lead to a worse outcome than dealing with them.

What you say is true but since Putin is such a non-empathy person, I'm a little concerned that "If I can't be top boss, nobody in the world will be" (Nuclear strike)
I understand...Walking a tightrope.

 

[Kreton]

What you say is true but since Putin is such a non-empathy person, I'm a little concerned that "If I can't be top boss, nobody in the world will be" (Nuclear strike)
I understand...Walking a tightrope.

That same Putin is not less dangerous when he is told (indirectly) do what you want. We won't stand in your way because we are scared of how crazy you are.

I am of the mindset that when a problem becomes significant you deal with it before it becomes worse. You don't just ignore it and hope it goes away.

No government or army should be ever allowed to murder civilians in this way, invade countries for no reason, or threaten to destroy humanity. None. As a society, we all have an obligation to stop these kinds of global madnesses.

 

[Roadvirus]

The world shouldn't punish them too harshly.

After seeing the images from Bucha, there are going to be people (including me) who will insist on keeping all sanctions slapped on Russia until Hell freezes over.

 

[Juin]

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Conditions like those listed usually are following total capitulation of one's opponent in war. It's hard to see that sanctions are even close to entitling a party to demand such conditions. EU will have to take out Russia in combat