• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Republicans Push Trump Immigration Plan, Seeking to Corner Democrats on Shutdown

OscarLevant

Gadfly Extraordinaire
Banned
Suspended
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 3, 2018
Messages
16,876
Reaction score
7,397
Location
San Diego
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
The problem with their approach is that Pelosi's position is that dems will not negotiate with hostage taking shutdowns, because to do so would encourage another shutdown 30 days from now and on an on, in this era of short CRs. ( That's the problem, or a big one, right there). I dont think it's going to work, because Dems can see right through it. The majority of Americans are with Dems on this one, and the stats prove it. Repubs must open the gov first, then dems will negotiate.

On the other hand, if Trump could offer permanency for DACA and a path to citizenship for them, she'd have to consider it, I believe, given that that is such a big concession I doubt Trump would ever do another shutdown to get his way, in the future, given the price he will have to pay for it on this one and future shutdowns. I think this is the solution.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/20/us/politics/trump-government-shutdown-democrats-pence.html

Senator Mitch McConnell of Kentucky, the majority leader, plans to bring up legislation as early as Tuesday that would wrap Mr. Trump’s proposal into a broader package that would include billions of dollars in disaster relief and immediately reopen the government, an aide said. The move is intended to ratchet up pressure on Democrats, who have insisted they will not negotiate with Mr. Trump until the shutdown is over.

“President Trump has put forward a serious and reasonable offer to reform parts of our broken immigration system and reopen government,” Representative Kevin McCarthy, the Republican leader, said on Twitter. “The moment now turns to Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer. The country is watching.”
 
Last edited:

Taylor

DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 31, 2009
Messages
24,122
Reaction score
10,859
Location
US
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
The problem with their approach is that Pelosi's position is that dems will not negotiate
Pelosi not willing to compromise sounds like her problem, not theirs.
 

Kal'Stang

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 10, 2009
Messages
42,744
Reaction score
22,569
Location
Bonners Ferry ID USA
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
The problem with their approach is that Pelosi's position is that dems will not negotiate with hostage taking shutdowns, because to do so would encourage another shutdown 30 days from now and on an on, in this era of short CRs. ( That's the problem, or a big one, right there). I dont think it's going to work, because Dems can see right through it. The majority of Americans are with Dems on this one, and the stats prove it. Repubs must open the gov first, then dems will negotiate.

On the other hand, if Trump could offer permanency for DACA and a path to citizenship for them, she'd have to consider it, I believe, given that that is such a big concession I doubt Trump would ever do another shutdown to get his way, in the future, given the price he will have to pay for it on this one and future shutdowns. I think this is the solution.

One would think that a shutdown has never happened due to differences of opinion before. Guess what happened each time? People negotiated.
 

danarhea

Slayer of the DP Newsbot
DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 27, 2005
Messages
43,602
Reaction score
26,256
Location
Houston, TX
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
One would think that a shutdown has never happened due to differences of opinion before. Guess what happened each time? People negotiated.

Then Trump should negotiate....................Honestly.
 

Chomsky

Social Democrat
DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 28, 2015
Messages
74,354
Reaction score
60,463
Location
Third Coast
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
300K temporary DACA protection is nothing. There's around 7-800K formally in DACA, and anywhere from 1.3 - 1.8M eligible. And those 7-800K DACA kids are currently temporary protected. Trump offered nothing.

Pelosi should up her offer from one dollar, to a buck-fifty, and claim she met him half-way!
 

notquiteright

DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 20, 2012
Messages
21,106
Reaction score
8,253
Location
okla-freakin-homa
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Progressive
Pelosi not willing to compromise sounds like her problem, not theirs.

Pelosi isn't willing to cave in, she never said she wouldn't compromise. Offers of partial funding for certain border security upgrades have been floated. Now if tRump does agree to a permanent pathway HIS base would lose what little minds they have.... :doh

His caving in to his base is how we got here- demand for the entire 5.7B was dropped (or so Turdle Mitch thought) until the rabid right ranters screamed. tRump doesn't think he can compromise and keep his Kool-Aid drinkers, but we shall see.... :peace
 

Xelor

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 20, 2018
Messages
10,257
Reaction score
4,161
Location
Washington, D.C.
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Republicans Push Trump Immigration Plan, Seeking to Corner Democrats on Shutdown

I don't know how they think that's supposed to happen. The House need only amend the bill by stripping the wall funding from it, pass the thus amended bill. The bill would then go into the legislative reconciliation (conference committee) process. The bill could sit there for ages, much as HR 695 sat so for months.

The political consequence of that would be that the negotiation ball would briefly be in Congress' court, so to speak, rather than in Trump's, and that would allow him and McConnell to both focus their rhetoric on Dems in the House. The problem, however, is that Dems need only say that they passed the Senate's bill sans the wall funding so as to get the government reopened, and they'd be right. They could even dare the Senate to pass the same bill, and make Trump sign/veto the thing or dare the Senate to strip the DACA stuff from the bill since the House pulled the wall from it.

At that point with the bill in the Senate, if it comes to the floor sans wall funding, so long as it reopens the gov't Dems can vote for it, DACA concessions or not. At the very least, Dems from states having the fewest immigrants -- MT, VT, RI, NH, maybe a few others that are "red" -- can safely vote for it and then release something showing they acquiesced to do so for the purpose of reopening the gov't and not because they don't want to help DACA people. Huge doses of brutal honesty work wonders when used adroitly to "play" the opponent, especially dissembling ones like Trump.
 

bongsaway

DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 16, 2019
Messages
38,388
Reaction score
25,370
Location
Flori-duh
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Progressive
Pelosi not willing to compromise sounds like her problem, not theirs.

Pelosi didn't shut down the government. She doesn't seem to be bothered by your assessment.
 

Mycroft

Genius is where you find it.
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 27, 2011
Messages
90,079
Reaction score
38,896
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
The problem with their approach is that Pelosi's position is that dems will not negotiate with hostage taking shutdowns, because to do so would encourage another shutdown 30 days from now and on an on, in this era of short CRs. ( That's the problem, or a big one, right there). I dont think it's going to work, because Dems can see right through it. The majority of Americans are with Dems on this one, and the stats prove it. Repubs must open the gov first, then dems will negotiate.

On the other hand, if Trump could offer permanency for DACA and a path to citizenship for them, she'd have to consider it, I believe, given that that is such a big concession I doubt Trump would ever do another shutdown to get his way, in the future, given the price he will have to pay for it on this one and future shutdowns. I think this is the solution.

The GOP are just making the Dem's box a little bit smaller.

Schumer will oppose this and Pelosi will ignore this. This will all be part of the justification Trump needs to declare a national emergency.
 

uptower

DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 8, 2018
Messages
15,754
Reaction score
11,871
Location
Behind you - run!
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
300K temporary DACA protection is nothing. There's around 7-800K formally in DACA, and anywhere from 1.3 - 1.8M eligible. And those 7-800K DACA kids are currently temporary protected. Trump offered nothing.

Agreed, he's offering something the courts have already given: short-term protection for DACA. He'd have to up it, by basically promising to stay off the dreamer's backs for the rest of his term.
 

bongsaway

DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 16, 2019
Messages
38,388
Reaction score
25,370
Location
Flori-duh
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Progressive
Pelosi isn't willing to cave in, she never said she wouldn't compromise. Offers of partial funding for certain border security upgrades have been floated. Now if tRump does agree to a permanent pathway HIS base would lose what little minds they have.... :doh

His caving in to his base is how we got here- demand for the entire 5.7B was dropped (or so Turdle Mitch thought) until the rabid right ranters screamed. tRump doesn't think he can compromise and keep his Kool-Aid drinkers, but we shall see.... :peace

The whole republican party has painted themselves into one giant corner. Pathway to citizenship, boom, the heads of the base exploding like you said. Any republican senator that breaks from the trump syndrome is doomed by the base. And any republican senator who votes with trump is doomed by the rest of america. Mitch won't bring a vote trying to protect said senators and americans are getting pissed by his famous stall tactics. The GOP is going to get wiped next election.
 

Taylor

DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 31, 2009
Messages
24,122
Reaction score
10,859
Location
US
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Pelosi didn't shut down the government. She doesn't seem to be bothered by your assessment.
On that we agree. She's not bothered whatsoever by the shutdown. She figures that the more people suffer, the better it will be for Democrats.
 

uptower

DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 8, 2018
Messages
15,754
Reaction score
11,871
Location
Behind you - run!
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
tRump doesn't think he can compromise and keep his Kool-Aid drinkers, but we shall see.... :peace

I bet he can. You see his base have got nobody else. It's Trump or nothing. He just needs to sell it like he always does and tell them it's a win. The smart ones who also really hate immigrants will be wise to it, but for most who just generally want 'border security' he can easily claim a smaller amount is a good start and move on from there. He won't lose his base over it.
 

Chomsky

Social Democrat
DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 28, 2015
Messages
74,354
Reaction score
60,463
Location
Third Coast
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
Agreed, he's offering something the courts have already given: short-term protection for DACA. He'd have to up it, by basically promising to stay off the dreamer's backs for the rest of his term.
He wants a permanent wall, I'd say he needs to give a permanent DACA.

Remember, DACA is gone because he removed it. He's not even giving what he took.
 

bongsaway

DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 16, 2019
Messages
38,388
Reaction score
25,370
Location
Flori-duh
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Progressive
The GOP are just making the Dem's box a little bit smaller.

Schumer will oppose this and Pelosi will ignore this. This will all be part of the justification Trump needs to declare a national emergency.

One can hope he tries, see ya' in court.
 

DaveFagan

Iconoclast
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 20, 2011
Messages
10,090
Reaction score
5,056
Location
wny
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Conservative
The GOP are just making the Dem's box a little bit smaller.

Schumer will oppose this and Pelosi will ignore this. This will all be part of the justification Trump needs to declare a national emergency.

It's Trump in the box. It's his shutdown. He laid claim to it. He has no way out that saves face. Toast.
/
 

bongsaway

DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 16, 2019
Messages
38,388
Reaction score
25,370
Location
Flori-duh
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Progressive
I bet he can. You see his base have got nobody else. It's Trump or nothing. He just needs to sell it like he always does and tell them it's a win. The smart ones who also really hate immigrants will be wise to it, but for most who just generally want 'border security' he can easily claim a smaller amount is a good start and move on from there. He won't lose his base over it.

If coulter and limbaugh have any say in the matter he will. Just look at the republican party in its current form. It hates everyone and everything. You let trump not get his wall funding and see what right wing media does to him. That's the problem with having enemies everywhere, when you beat all the ones on the opposition there's nobody left but your own to turn on and hate.
 

notquiteright

DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 20, 2012
Messages
21,106
Reaction score
8,253
Location
okla-freakin-homa
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Progressive
On that we agree. She's not bothered whatsoever by the shutdown. She figures that the more people suffer, the better it will be for Democrats.

I don't think you understood his post (or didn't want to) She isn't bothered by what you think, she never said the shutdown doesn't bother her. tRump doesn't seem too butt hurt over this... :peace
 

Mycroft

Genius is where you find it.
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 27, 2011
Messages
90,079
Reaction score
38,896
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
It's Trump in the box. It's his shutdown. He laid claim to it. He has no way out that saves face. Toast.
/

He has a way out. Nancy doesn't.
 

OscarLevant

Gadfly Extraordinaire
Banned
Suspended
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 3, 2018
Messages
16,876
Reaction score
7,397
Location
San Diego
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
Pelosi not willing to compromise sounds like her problem, not theirs.



You left out the rest of the quote

The problem with their approach is that Pelosi's position is that dems will not negotiate with hostage taking shutdowns, because to do so would encourage another shutdown 30 days from now and on an on, in this era of short CRs. ...


Try refuting what is actually expressed., next time.
 

Amelia

Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 13, 2014
Messages
10,936
Reaction score
9,067
Location
Wisconsin
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Progressive
Trump's idea of compromise on this problem which he created reminds me of when I was 7 and I would hit my 5-year-old brother. When he would start to go tell Momma, I would pinch him to take the hit back. He would buy it and not tell.

Trump and McConnell are hoping the country and in particular congressional Democrats are as naive as my little brother was.
 

OscarLevant

Gadfly Extraordinaire
Banned
Suspended
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 3, 2018
Messages
16,876
Reaction score
7,397
Location
San Diego
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
One would think that a shutdown has never happened due to differences of opinion before. Guess what happened each time? People negotiated.

Yes, but prior presidents had empathy for the people harmed during the shutdown.

Trump has NO empathy for the 800,000 who are being deprived of their pay. Prior presidents, all of them, certainly did. Pelosi knows this about Trump.

In other words, because the other presidents could feel their pain, they kept the shutdown short, or at least didn't allow it to go on as long as it is happening now. This president, he'll harm 800,000 people for a long time because he doesn't give a **** about them, he only cares about the opinions of Ann Coulter and Rush Limbaugh and his base. Pelosi knows this, and she knows that if Trump gets his way on this CR, he'll do it over and over and over again. With this prez, three times is enough. ENOUGH !
 

JANFU

Land by the Gulf Stream
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Monthly Donator
Joined
Dec 27, 2014
Messages
49,350
Reaction score
27,537
Location
Best Coast Canada
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Liberal
One would think that a shutdown has never happened due to differences of opinion before. Guess what happened each time? People negotiated.

They had a deal in December.
Deals leak, Coulter Rush others went at Trump, deal finished

If Democrat's do negotiate and arrive at a deal with Trump, Trump backing out cannot happen again.

And Yes the deal will be leaked.

if it happens, then it is on McConnell to make a deal that is Veto proof. Yes/No?
 

uptower

DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 8, 2018
Messages
15,754
Reaction score
11,871
Location
Behind you - run!
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
If coulter and limbaugh have any say in the matter he will. Just look at the republican party in its current form. It hates everyone and everything. You let trump not get his wall funding and see what right wing media does to him. That's the problem with having enemies everywhere, when you beat all the ones on the opposition there's nobody left but your own to turn on and hate.

I actually think his base depend more on him than Coulter and Limbaugh. There dedication to him has proven very resilient. It is a true cult of personality. Everyone who's been jettisoned from his orbit has been somehow to blame. Everything he does wrong is someone's fault. A talking head who criticizes him is disloyal; they can scapegoat some adviser if it makes them feel better but that orange stuff? That's a new improved Teflon coating.

Besides I'm still confident he can convince them a defeat is a win: he can simply lie. He can say the Dems offered him no money for border security (untrue, they offered some, but not for the wall) and when they do offer money for security he can claim it's for the wall (though it won't be). His 'truths' can be shoehorned whatever results come and his supporters will go along with it.
 
Last edited:

OscarLevant

Gadfly Extraordinaire
Banned
Suspended
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 3, 2018
Messages
16,876
Reaction score
7,397
Location
San Diego
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
The GOP are just making the Dem's box a little bit smaller.

Schumer will oppose this and Pelosi will ignore this. This will all be part of the justification Trump needs to declare a national emergency.


So, declaring national emergency for a political problem?

He can try.
 
Top Bottom