Republicans are dead to us

[Jarhead]

I don't know about being human, your Cowboys sure got a gift today from our Browns. I'm starting to believe the Browns really ARE jinxed (I live near Cleveland, but I'm a 40-plus year Viking fan). The Boys got some talent - why aren't they any better?

That's simple. It's coaching.

 

[sawyerloggingon]

Once again we are treated the conservative version of lets make up our own facts to prove our point. CA population base IS growing not shrinking. It is not very hard to find out these TRUE facts. Please stop listening to the conservative echo chamber. If this election should have told you anything it should have told you that the conservative echo chamber does not report facts. They are propaganda machine that either lies or twists facts to fit their already determined conclusions.

U.S. Population by State, 1790 to 2011 — Infoplease.com

Just because you would like to believe CA's population didn't grow doesn't mean that is true. Please stop using talking points or propaganda based "facts" and take a little time to find out what the actual facts are before you spout off crap that is not true.

Fine, lets look into Calif population growth and get the pertinent facts here that have to do with people leaving in droves. What is happening is Calif residents that own companies are leaving and taking their employees with them. Retired people are leaving along with educated residents looking for a state with better opportunity. What is left is poor people and illegal immigrants and very soon Calif will resemble Mexico more than America both racially and economically.


Exporting People

"Yes, California continues to grow. California is growing only because there are more births than deaths and the state had a net large influx of international immigration over the past decade. At the same time, the state has been hemorrhaging residents."



"Californians are leaving. Between 2000 and 2009 , a net 1.5 million Californians left for other states. Only New York lost more of its residents (1.6 million). California's loss was greater than the population of its second largest municipality, San Diego. More Californians moved away than lived in 12 states at the beginning of the decade. Among the net 6.3 million interstate domestic migrants in the nation, nearly one-quarter fled California for somewhere else."

The Export Business in California (People and Jobs) | Newgeography.com

 

[Wiggen]

For someone who likes to bash anyone on the right as often as you do, you're a lot more defensive than you really should be.

NO, that's not being defensive. It's simply reacting with facts to a typical right wing knee-jerk post.

 

[Simon W. Moon]

I'm not poor.

Afaict, I never even implied that you were poor. But thanks for letting us know.

I'm in a good position to donate to causes that hurt your cause.

It'd prob'ly help if you could identify "my cause." Or, perhaps if you tell me what you're donating to, I could try and oppose it for you. Maybe that would help? idk.

And don't define for me what I find to be objectionable.

You're right. I should not have assumed that you found "dehumaniz[ing] gays, blacks, and women" objectionable. It actually was quite presumptive of me. You may find that quite acceptable for all I know. but in my defense, I think that there's evidence in your posts which support inferring that you found such objectionable. But it wouldn't be the first time I incorrectly inferred something.
Live and hopefully learn.
I'll just leave it an open question as to whether or not you find dehumanizing other people as objectionable.
Zalatix might think it's okay to dehumanize gays, blacks, women, and conservatives. We don't know. Not enough information to tell at this point.

Let's just leave it at that for fear of potential moderator action.

I am sort of an old coot, so take what I say with a grain of salt or more. But it seems to me that if you would let go of your caricatures and stereotypes of other people in your thinking, you might be able conduct your posts in a civil manner rather than being sorely tempted to engage in school yard name calling.

Or maybe not. Who is to say?

 

[Wiggen]

Fine, lets look into Calif population growth and get the pertinent facts here that have to do with people leaving in droves. What is happening is Calif residents that own companies are leaving and taking their employees with them. Retired people are leaving along with educated residents looking for a state with better opportunity. What is left is poor people and illegal immigrants and very soon Calif will resemble Mexico more than America both racially and economically.


Exporting People

"Yes, California continues to grow. California is growing only because there are more births than deaths and the state had a net large influx of international immigration over the past decade. At the same time, the state has been hemorrhaging residents."



"Californians are leaving. Between 2000 and 2009 , a net 1.5 million Californians left for other states. Only New York lost more of its residents (1.6 million). California's loss was greater than the population of its second largest municipality, San Diego. More Californians moved away than lived in 12 states at the beginning of the decade. Among the net 6.3 million interstate domestic migrants in the nation, nearly one-quarter fled California for somewhere else."

The Export Business in California (People and Jobs) | Newgeography.com

Based on the results of the past few elections, it appears as though the vast majority of those leaving California are right wing zealots who leave for the paradise that is Mississippi or Alabama - where they will be eligibile for low paying jobs and have the privilege of sending their children to sub standard schools.

Good riddance.

 

[Simon W. Moon]

"Californians are leaving. Between 2000 and 2009 , a net 1.5 million Californians left for other states. Only New York lost more of its residents (1.6 million). California's loss was greater than the population of its second largest municipality, San Diego. More Californians moved away than lived in 12 states at the beginning of the decade. Among the net 6.3 million interstate domestic migrants in the nation, nearly one-quarter fled California for somewhere else."
The Export Business in California (People and Jobs) | Newgeography.com

How is it that the two largest states have the largest gross numbers of people leaving them? Is it natural for the largest states to have the largest numbers of people moving? What are the odds of that happening?
Is that out of line? Should smaller states have the more people leaving them than a larger state?

 

[Fisher]

Based on the results of the past few elections, it appears as though the vast majority of those leaving California are right wing zealots who leave for the paradise that is Mississippi or Alabama - where they will be eligibile for low paying jobs and have the privilege of sending their children to sub standard schools.

Good riddance.

Did you read the article? I ask because it points out:
"California is no longer an incubator of high-wage jobs. The state lost 370,000 jobs paying 25 percent or more of the average wage between 2000 and 2008. This compares to a 770,000 increase in the previous 8 years. California is trailing Texas badly and the nation overall in creating criticial STEM jobs and middle skills jobs (Figures 2 & 3) Only two states have higher unemployment rates than California (Nevada and Rhode Island) . California has the second highest underemployment rate (20.8 percent), which includes the number of unemployed, plus those who have given up looking for work ("discouraged" workers) and those who are working only part time because they cannot find full time work. Only Nevada, with its economy that is overly-dependent on California, has a higher underemployment rate. "

and

"To make matters worse, California is becoming less educated. California's share of younger people with college degrees is now about in the middle of the states, while older, now retiring Californians are among the most educated in the nation."

Sounds like CA is becoming poorer and dumber the bluer it gets.

"

 

[Wiggen]

I'd still rather live there than any one of the former Confederate States of America.

As for your assertion, the simple fact is that the state is getting bluer with each election, as is the rest of the west coast. Therefore it stands to reason that the people leaving are, for the most part, right wing zealots.

 

[sawyerloggingon]

How is it that the two largest states have the largest gross numbers of people leaving them? Is it natural for the largest states to have the largest numbers of people moving? What are the odds of that happening?
Is that out of line? Should smaller states have the more people leaving them than a larger state?

People used to flock to California and now they are running from it and running to red states like Idaho. Buck Knives recently moved from Calif to here now we have their employment and tax base.

 

[sawyerloggingon]

Did you read the article? I ask because it points out:
"California is no longer an incubator of high-wage jobs. The state lost 370,000 jobs paying 25 percent or more of the average wage between 2000 and 2008. This compares to a 770,000 increase in the previous 8 years. California is trailing Texas badly and the nation overall in creating criticial STEM jobs and middle skills jobs (Figures 2 & 3) Only two states have higher unemployment rates than California (Nevada and Rhode Island) . California has the second highest underemployment rate (20.8 percent), which includes the number of unemployed, plus those who have given up looking for work ("discouraged" workers) and those who are working only part time because they cannot find full time work. Only Nevada, with its economy that is overly-dependent on California, has a higher underemployment rate. "

and

"To make matters worse, California is becoming less educated. California's share of younger people with college degrees is now about in the middle of the states, while older, now retiring Californians are among the most educated in the nation."

Sounds like CA is becoming poorer and dumber the bluer it gets.

"

Nice to know somebody actually reads links in here.

 

[Fisher]

I'd still rather live there than any one of the former Confederate States of America.

As for your assertion, the simple fact is that the state is getting bluer with each election, as is the rest of the west coast. Therefore it stands to reason that the people leaving are, for the most part, right wing zealots.

It may stand to reason but that does not stand to the facts in the article. Those leaving are being displaced by poor immigrants. California has a good old case of white flight going on.

 

[smb]

Fine, lets look into Calif population growth and get the pertinent facts here that have to do with people leaving in droves. What is happening is Calif residents that own companies are leaving and taking their employees with them. Retired people are leaving along with educated residents looking for a state with better opportunity. What is left is poor people and illegal immigrants and very soon Calif will resemble Mexico more than America both racially and economically.


Exporting People

"Yes, California continues to grow. California is growing only because there are more births than deaths and the state had a net large influx of international immigration over the past decade. At the same time, the state has been hemorrhaging residents."



"Californians are leaving. Between 2000 and 2009 , a net 1.5 million Californians left for other states. Only New York lost more of its residents (1.6 million). California's loss was greater than the population of its second largest municipality, San Diego. More Californians moved away than lived in 12 states at the beginning of the decade. Among the net 6.3 million interstate domestic migrants in the nation, nearly one-quarter fled California for somewhere else."

The Export Business in California (People and Jobs) | Newgeography.com

So first things first. You admit then that you were incorrect in asserting that CA population is in fact growing and not shrinking. This is a start.

Now you suggest that California is hemorrhaging residents. If you had bothered to check the facts you would see that of that number of people leaving between 2000-09 the vast majority of them left between 00-07. CA internal migration has slowed significantly between 07-12. But this again aids my whole point and does not undermine it at all. I stated that CA population growth has contributed to the revenue issue. The population is growing and to boot workers are migrating out of the state leaving the bulk of the population growth through new birth. Babies don't pay taxes but definitely utilize services. Ergo your point actually helps sustain the point I was trying to make.

As far as why some people are leaving CA...it is jobs. Why are some businesses leaving CA? Is it really the high taxes and regulation? Some say yes. Living and managing a business in CA I can tell you that this is not the main reason. The biggest reasons are fiscal uncertainty, high energy costs and high real estate costs. The high energy costs have largely been addressed by reversing the conservative deregulation of the energy markets in CA which led to wide spread outages and extremely high costs. One month alone my electric bill for a small 2 bedrooom house was over $400. The high real estate costs have largely been resolved by the housing bubble bursting. The fiscal uncertainty will now be resolved as the Democratic Party now holds the super majority in both houses and the budget process will no longer be held hostage by a Republican minority and/or a Republican governor. On a seperate note I would just add that while CA was loosing the bulk of internal migration we had a Republican governor that was implementing "business friendly" policies that did not do anything to help the situation.

 

[sawyerloggingon]

So first things first. You admit then that you were incorrect in asserting that CA population is in fact growing and not shrinking. This is a start.

Now you suggest that California is hemorrhaging residents. If you had bothered to check the facts you would see that of that number of people leaving between 2000-09 the vast majority of them left between 00-07. CA internal migration has slowed significantly between 07-12. But this again aids my whole point and does not undermine it at all. I stated that CA population growth has contributed to the revenue issue. The population is growing and to boot workers are migrating out of the state leaving the bulk of the population growth through new birth. Babies don't pay taxes but definitely utilize services. Ergo your point actually helps sustain the point I was trying to make.

As far as why some people are leaving CA...it is jobs. Why are some businesses leaving CA? Is it really the high taxes and regulation? Some say yes. Living and managing a business in CA I can tell you that this is not the main reason. The biggest reasons are fiscal uncertainty, high energy costs and high real estate costs. The high energy costs have largely been addressed by reversing the conservative deregulation of the energy markets in CA which led to wide spread outages and extremely high costs. One month alone my electric bill for a small 2 bedrooom house was over $400. The high real estate costs have largely been resolved by the housing bubble bursting. The fiscal uncertainty will now be resolved as the Democratic Party now holds the super majority in both houses and the budget process will no longer be held hostage by a Republican minority and/or a Republican governor. On a seperate note I would just add that while CA was loosing the bulk of internal migration we had a Republican governor that was implementing "business friendly" policies that did not do anything to help the situation.

You need to look up the word pertinent, here I'll do it for you.

"having a clear decisive relevance to the matter in hand "

As I said the pertinent Calif population number has to do with people leaving not with illegal Mexicans coming to Calif and having baby's.

 

[smb]

Becareful here. If you are suggesting the will of the people does not matter you live in the wrong nation, I'd suggest a place like Iran where the will of the people truly has no meaning.

Please make sense. I cannot live in America because I don't believe as you do? I suppose your opinions are completely in line with the will of the people? If that is the case then why did almost all the conservatives in contested races lose this election? Why did all but one of the conservative ballot initiatives lose and badly?

On a seperate note I would just like to point out that your "rebuttal" did not address the inaccuracies of previous statement which I called out.

 

[smb]

You need to look up the word pertinent, here I'll do it for you.

"having a clear decisive relevance to the matter in hand "

As I said the pertinent Calif population number has to do with people leaving not with illegal Mexicans coming to Calif and having baby's.

That is not what you said. Here is your quote in response to my suggestion that population growth and the state revenue were an issue.

By the way California has a shrinking population base not a growing one, businesses along with their employees are leaving in droves for red states like Idaho.

No where in there was claim or qualification about the "pertinent" population, whatever that is supposed to mean. You stated clearly that CA has shrinking population base not growing one. That is factually inaccurate. Added to the fact that because more adults are leaving the state and the populationg growth is due to children being born actually substantiates my point about the growing population and revenue issues.

 

[sawyerloggingon]

That is not what you said. Here is your quote in response to my suggestion that population growth and the state revenue were an issue.



No where in there was claim or qualification about the "pertinent" population, whatever that is supposed to mean. You stated clearly that CA has shrinking population base not growing one. That is factually inaccurate. Added to the fact that because more adults are leaving the state and the populationg growth is due to children being born actually substantiates my point about the growing population and revenue issues.

Again "pertinent" is the key word in this discussion. If you want to say that the poor uneducated people staying in Calif are increasing the population by conceiving poor uneducated children you win. If you want to discuss why people are fleeing Calif to avoid high taxes and a crappy socialist economy you lose and that is why you want this thread to devolve and morph into another subject altogether.

 

[CalGun]

Actually it did quite well you just don't want to see it. No I would hate for you to want to go live in Iran. It would be a horrible choice of yours, but you implied we don't fund government enough in California due to conservative policies. That isn't true, it might be an opinion, but is not factual. I believe CA has an excellent rate of tax collection and has very little avoidance compared to say the Federal government - I've seen the stat but I'll let you look it up. So the people are paying what they want, but you seem to indicate that is out of touch with some form of reality? You support the title of the thread indicating a kind of fascist view - "dead to us" which is consistent wtih how the Iranian leadership views - you know gays and political opponents. I hope you don't go there, horrible place, but you really shouldn't want to lead or have us lead like they are.

Please make sense. I cannot live in America because I don't believe as you do? I suppose your opinions are completely in line with the will of the people? If that is the case then why did almost all the conservatives in contested races lose this election? Why did all but one of the conservative ballot initiatives lose and badly?

On a seperate note I would just like to point out that your "rebuttal" did not address the inaccuracies of previous statement which I called out.

 

[smb]

Again "pertinent" is the key word in this discussion. If you want to say that the poor uneducated people staying in Calif are increasing the population by conceiving poor uneducated children you win. If you want to discuss why people are fleeing Calif to avoid high taxes and a crappy socialist economy you lose and that is why you want this thread to devolve and morph into another subject altogether.

Apparently you must have a reading problem. I did adress why people are leaving CA in my response. I guess like other things if you don't like what is being said you probably just don't read it. I am not "morphing" to another subject. I made a claim. You responded to that claim with a factually innaccurate statement. I called you out on your factual challenges. Instead of admitting your mistake like an honorable person would you changed your argument. I then called you at again on your factual mistakes on that changing argument. You then rebut that with sweeping generalizations and no facts and then claim I am the one "morphing" the argument.

 

[smb]

Actually it did quite well you just don't want to see it. No I would hate for you to want to go live in Iran. It would be a horrible choice of yours, but you implied we don't fund government enough in California due to conservative policies. That isn't true, it might be an opinion, but is not factual. I believe CA has an excellent rate of tax collection and has very little avoidance compared to say the Federal government - I've seen the stat but I'll let you look it up. So the people are paying what they want, but you seem to indicate that is out of touch with some form of reality? You support the title of the thread indicating a kind of fascist view - "dead to us" which is consistent wtih how the Iranian leadership views - you know gays and political opponents. I hope you don't go there, horrible place, but you really shouldn't want to lead or have us lead like they are.

Good grief! Do you really beleive that the OP was saying that all Republicans are dead or should be? If you do then please take some reading comprehension classes. It was clear that the OP was stating that if you thought the Republican Party had a bad election nation-wide then look at the West Coast and see what really bad results look like. For all intents and purposes the Republican Party does not exist on the state wide level in California. They have lost on almost every level concievable. The Democratic Party now holds a super-majority in both houses of the state assembly, the governorship and every constitutionally elected state office.

That being said I did not make any claim about the tax rate of CA nor how well CA collects its taxes. I have no idea why would suggest that as point to rebut against. What I did state is that CA has revenue problem. We have per capita the 10th highest revenue. While that may seem like a lot because the infrastructure issues in CA as previously stated that is clearly well below what is needed. The CA revenue is well below what is needed largely due to Republican policies of the past. Policies that will no longer be an issue going forward. So when you want to blame CA's economic woes on the liberal Democrats you need to look into the actual facts. They state a different picture.

 

[Zalatix]

The very fact that you are attempting to label Cain and Romney as "Conservative" is quite funny............and only promotes the sentiment that you are truly ignorant regarding the nature of conservatism. :shrug:

My my, how quick everyone is to disown these guys now that they've lost. Failure is still an orphan.

You might have wiggle room to say Rmoney is not a conservative... not much, but you could get drunk enough to make-believe that theory into existence. Cain, however, you have to be completely insane to say he's not Conservative. He was a minimal-government purist, about as far to the left of Ron Paul as the breadth of a hair. He's an ARCH Conservative.

 

[Zalatix]

thank you for bringing this up, all one has to do is look at the shape of California, and know that if the democrats get total control of america, it is finally doomed!

look to California has our Greece, companies and people with any money are fleeing the state leaving only the poor, illegals, and those demanding more money.

California's debt is about what we lost in Governor Arnie's pennies-on-the-dollar settlement deal with Enron. If Enron had paid their bills we wouldn't be in this mess. Let's not even talk about Texas's debt, which skyrocketed to higher levels per capita than California.

 

[Monserrat]

I'd still rather live there than any one of the former Confederate States of America.

As for your assertion, the simple fact is that the state is getting bluer with each election, as is the rest of the west coast. Therefore it stands to reason that the people leaving are, for the most part, right wing zealots.

I visited family in LA a couple years ago, they were hurrying to get their taxes done right away so that they had at least some chance of getting their money back at some point in the foreseeable future. I don't know how the state has been doing since then but I know that if I lived there at that time and had an opportunity to leave I would have jumped at it.

I don't know what the issue is, I don't think it's a liberal/conservative thing. I've just always chalked it up to California being special.

 

[Master PO]

California's debt is about what we lost in Governor Arnie's pennies-on-the-dollar settlement deal with Enron. If Enron had paid their bills we wouldn't be in this mess. Let's not even talk about Texas's debt, which skyrocketed to higher levels per capita than California.

which state is closer to Greece?

California, with its tax and spend, tax and spend, and tax policy is ruining that state, people are leaving who have any money, and only the poor, illegals, and far left liberals will be left.

if California wants to continue let them, its their state, but don't ask the feds for a bailout, and expect other Americans to pay for their debt.

 

[Zalatix]

It'd prob'ly help if you could identify "my cause." Or, perhaps if you tell me what you're donating to, I could try and oppose it for you. Maybe that would help? idk.

"Lean: Conservative"

Whether I think it's wrong to dehumanize gays, the poor, etc. is irrelevant. That's like saying I think it's wrong for a snake to snatch and eat some animal's egg: it's a snake and snakes do what snakes do. Likewise, if a cobra is in your kitchen you don't try to humanize it and reason with it. You remove the animal as best you can, most often with the help of animal control. If animal control ain't around, well I won't go on with that analogy but you get the picture. Or maybe not; I half expect you to say I'm wrong and the right response is not to remove the animal. Moreover, the other problem with Conservatives is that they fail to behave like civilized people: they dehumanize themselves far more than any words from some angry liberal like me ever could.

And let's talk about that angry liberal thing, shall we? Everyone here is all butthurt about how mean I am. Do you see me out there throwing money in the face of Parkinson's victims in wheelchairs while telling them "There's no free ride!" ? No. Do I get on here declaring "national disown your gay child day" like mAnn Coulter did? No. Do I go out and vandalize political signs? No. How many self-described Conservatives here ever denounced that hateful, real life behavior? None? And yet you have a problem with what I say? Really? I am truly amused. Not shocked or in any way surprised, but highly amused. Actually I expect you to reply by saying that none of the things I just cited, ever really happened. Liberal media bias and all that.

Talking about behaving in a civil manner... I'm sure you guys keep up the illusion of civil discourse because you're afraid of what people would think if they saw how you really were. That's not exactly uncommon; Mitt Romney had worse things to say about half of America when he didn't think the camera was on him. I'm sure you'll reply by saying I'm wrong and that Romney never was like that, so I'll leave you with this little reminder. On the forum you want to come across as personable and open-minded; but anyone with sense knows what you're like when you're off-the-record. Me, I choose to be a little more honest.

 

[Zalatix]

which state is closer to Greece?

California, with its tax and spend, tax and spend, and tax policy is ruining that state, people are leaving who have any money, and only the poor, illegals, and far left liberals will be left.

if California wants to continue let them, its their state, but don't ask the feds for a bailout, and expect other Americans to pay for their debt.

Greece's problem is the same as every other indebted nation's problem - the rich took their money and hid it in offshore tax shelters, to the tune of $21 TRILLION.

As for Texas not being close to Greece? Really?

California also settled the Enron lawsuit for pennies on the dollar - thanks to a Republican governor. We still haven't recovered from that - ESPECIALLY since we were also heavily exposed to the real estate market. Had we not passed Prop 13 - and this is a nod to you antitax folks out there - we would have been even more heavily dependent on property taxes. What a disaster that would have been.

As for asking for a bailout, taxpayers happily bailed out the banks and there was no Tea Party protest when Bush made it happen. What's up with that?