Boo Radley
DP Veteran
- Joined
- Dec 20, 2009
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- Liberal
BTW, I'm still waiting to see evidence that teachers are to blame.
BTW, I'm still waiting to see evidence that teachers are to blame.
Who's responsible for teaching the kids to read ????
You can call foul all you want. Your snide tone was pretty revealing. Just like the Badmutha, you see Detroit as one big black ghetto. And, in your mind, it's their fault they can't read because they're lazy and shiftless...
no way should parents be alarmed when little johnny comes home unable to read
... and he's in high school[/sarcasm]
if the other students are learning to read in that teacher's class, then why is the teacher found to be the reason johnny can't read
Too be honst, it depends on how you explain the nature of those problems. If you suggest it is something inherent in the race, then you're pretty much racist. it you look at the historical and societial problems that led to the problems, not so much.
why do you call people racist when they post factually correct statements. the fact is American black society has several detrimental social pathologies that cause many members of that community to underachieve or end up in jail. It is not racist to note those pathologies-indeed real racism involves enabling such behavior by castigating those who point it out.
Who's responsible for teaching the kids to read ????
i think we are looking at the same thing
i will emphasize it below
parents, teachers, the kids themselves. The notion that children are blank slates and don't come to the teacher with any thing other than an open mind is false. many, as you just did, leap to conclsuions without ever seeking to support your assumption. if you are going to say teachers are the sole, or even the major problem, more than all others that children deal with today concerning their learning, you have to more than just assume it.
Clearly it's all the union's fault, and there are definitely not any additional social or economic factors that lead to this situation. And definitely not any educational factors like inner city schools being grossly overcrowded and underfunded. Nope. Definitely just the unions.
Conservatives have turned teachers into the enemy. We're ****ing doomed.
If I only succeeded in getting my job 50% completed, I'd be fired. These teachers should too, but unfortunately for the poor people in Detroit, unions won't allow that to happen.
Unions prevent unqualified teachers from being fired.
If I only succeeded in getting my job 50% completed, I'd be fired. These teachers should too, but unfortunately for the poor people in Detroit, unions won't allow that to happen.
Unions prevent unqualified teachers from being fired.
No, administrators who don't know how to fire teachers prevent teachers from being fired. Due process =/= inability to be fired.
Pancreatic cancer has a survival rate of less than 5%. Should all oncologists be fired?
It's silly to make blanket statements about this sort of thing when you didn't grow up in those homes, live in that city, or go to those schools. There are far more variables at work here than just the teacher.
No, administrators who don't know how to fire teachers prevent teachers from being fired. Due process =/= inability to be fired.
Out of over 100,000 public school teachers in Michigan, only nine were fired last year
Absolutely amazing. If you want to know why teachers unions are pernicious and why America's education system is badly in need of a from-the-ground-up overhaul, just start looking at the issue of teacher tenure:
After Timothy Grider was arrested for picking up a prostitute in 2009, Byron Center Public Schools suspended the special-education teacher.
They also searched his classroom and found a half-empty bottle of vodka — a violation of school policy.
Grider didn’t get fired. Instead, the 19-year veteran teacher agreed to resign for a year’s salary and benefits, a settlement worth $106,307.
Public school teachers in Michigan and throughout the country are covered by tenure, a set of legal protections that makes their dismissal for incompetence or malfeasance a complicated and expensive process.
As a result, tenured teachers are rarely fired. Michigan has more than 100,000 public school teachers, and in recent years about 60 cases annually have been filed with the State Tenure Commission, including disputes involving economic layoffs and charges of dismissal for cause. Of the commission’s 15 decisions during the 2009-10 school year, nine resulted in the dismissal of a teacher.
Emphasis added. Note that this is not a problem unique to Michigan. The Los Angeles Unified School District -- the largest district in the country with over 33,000 teacher -- "spent $3.5 million trying to fire just seven of the district's 33,000 teachers for poor classroom performance — and only four were fired" over the course of a decade.
The Detroit Regional Workforce Fund’s efforts to connect low- and
moderate-income persons to emerging and growing career pathways have
highlighted a number of challenges in our education and employment
infrastructure.
We have identified that one of the most pressing of these challenges is the
constrained capacity of Southeast Michigan’s underfunded and fragmented public
workforce development system to meet the tremendous needs of a worker population
that is terrifically challenged by limited basic skills. This skills gap threatens to
substantially limit the success of the Fund’s education and training efforts, and
ultimately participants’ success in connecting to careers.
Increasing adult educational attainment is critical
Yeah Boo, you're right. I did make an assumption, the assumption that a TEACHer's job is to TEACH. Wow, I guess that was a crazy idea now that I think about it. Based on your and other libby's posts, you think a teacher's job is to babysit, collect free healthcare, count the days down to their pension kicks in, and protest when told to by their union bosses.
One question: How do you excuse the six or more teachers that passed these people on to the next grade knowing they couldn't even read. If they can't read a job application, they sure as hell couldn't read a history or geography book. Yet each teacher passed the problem off to the next one, who then passed them on to the next one, ad nauseum.
I never said that teachers were the major problem with these kid's life, but they sure as hell are the major reason they can't even read.
From the OP link:
"Underfunded workforce development system", this from the workforce development system.
Their solution: More adult education.
It does appear that the publication has an agenda, doesn't it? Is illiteracy really as prevalent as they say? Suppose it is, what is the solution?
Is it to try to lay blame on whoever we disagree with? How about throwing more money at the problem? Maybe we need more educational reform carried out by politicians who have no idea how to educate children or adults. That's worked out so well, as seen in the "No Child Left Behind" legislation.
Or, perhaps we could base reform on research and experience of successful teachers. Oh, no, no, that would never do. It would empower the powerless, and that is never a good idea for those in power.
Clearly it's all the union's fault, and there are definitely not any additional social or economic factors that lead to this situation. And definitely not any educational factors like inner city schools being grossly overcrowded and underfunded. Nope. Definitely just the unions.
Conservatives have turned teachers into the enemy. We're ****ing doomed.
In all my life, I've only ever been sued once. It was by a parent. She was upset that her child failed. The fact he never came to class, a college class meant nothing to her. She believed it was my job to go to his dorm room and get him each day, make him go to class. She believed he had no responsibility. She had no responsibility. Only the teacher did. She lost the case, of course, but you're exhibiting the same type of thinking. Children are not blank slates, completely subject to the teacher.
Also, parents and their pushing is in large part one reason why unprepared students are passed along. Chekc with your school and see how often PARENTS insist their child pass, but not that they actually know what is required.
And no, the reason why a student fails can be outside the releam of any teacher. if you want to know if a teacher is doing their job, you have to obseve and assess. You cannot reach the assumption that if a student fails it is the teachers fault. Both students and parents are a factor in this as well. Not to mention the community they live in. In a country that devalues education ( a student once told me you did not want to be too smart), where our leaders and talking heads demonize and degrade intelligence and learning, it is not surprising that too many students focus on things other than learning. A foreign student who sat thorugh my classes a few years ago with his Spanish to English dictionary, struggling to even understand me, after he had been to Law school at the UofI, he stopped back and told me and my class that what was wrong with our system was that people made excuses for students, let everyone have an education, devaluing it, and that if we simply took it away, made people earn the right to an education, we'd do better.
Not sure I agree with him, but I see what he's talking about. Students spend a good part of their lives trying to get out of being educated when they should be trying to learn. Instead of tackling these larger more difficult problems, we try to demonize those actually on the front lines trying to make a difference. Like many things, those who do this missunderstand the problems badly, and we continue to spin our wheels instead of actually digging in and working on real solutions.
Well when all signs point to YES.......only a liberal could point to NO.........
The Poorest American Cities of 2008 (1-30)
1. Detroit, 33.3% in poverty--Democrat Mayor for the last 52 years
2. Cleveland, 30.5% in poverty--Democrat Mayor for the last 20 years
3. Buffalo, 30.3% in poverty--Democrat Mayor for the last 43 years
4. Newark, 26.1% in poverty--Democrat Mayor for the last 102 years
5. Miami, 25.6% in poverty--Democrat Mayor for the last 52 years
6. Fresno, 25.5% in poverty--Republican Mayor for the last 13 years
7. Cincinnati, 25.1% in poverty--Democrat Mayor for the last 29 years
8. Toledo, 24.7% in poverty--Democrat Mayor for the last 20 years
9. El Paso, 24.3% in poverty--Democrat Mayor for the last 120 years
10.Philadelphia, 24.1% in poverty--Democrat Mayor for the last 57 years
11. Milwaukee, 23.4% in poverty--Democrat Mayor for the last 49 years
12. Memphis, 23.1% in poverty--Democrat Mayor for the last 133 years
13. St. Louis, 22.9% in poverty--Democrat Mayor for the last 60 years
14. Dallas, 22.6% in poverty--Republican Mayor for the last 2 years
14 New Orleans,22.6% in poverty-Democrat Mayor for the last 141 years
16. Atlanta, 22.4% in poverty--Democrat Mayor for the last 130 years
17. Stockton, Calif., 21.6% in poverty--No info available--probably Libs
18. Minneapolis, 21.3% in poverty--Democrat Mayor for the last 35 years
19. Pittsburgh, 21.2% in poverty--Democrat Mayor for the last 21 years
20. Tucson, 20.9% in poverty--No info available--probably Libs
21. Chicago, 20.6% in poverty--Democrat Mayor for the last 78 years
22. Columbus,Ohio 20.1% in poverty-Democrat Mayor for the last 9 years
23. Long Beach, Calif., 19.8% in poverty--No info available--probably Libs
24. Houston, 19.5% in poverty--Democrat Mayor for the last 88 years
25 Los Angeles,19.4% in poverty--Democrat Mayor for "the last 8 years"
26. Baltimore, 19.3% in poverty--Democrat Mayor for the last 42 years
27 San Antonio,19.2% in poverty--Democrat Mayor for the last 38 years
28. Phoenix, 18.9% in poverty--Democrat Mayor for the last 5 years
29. Boston, 18.7% in poverty--Democrat Mayor for the last 79 years
30. Denver, 18.4% in poverty----Democrat Mayor for the last 46 years
What do all these cities have in common?
.......besides high poverty, high crime, an abundance of Public Unions, and the most pathetic public school systems in the country?
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i think we are looking at the same thing
i will emphasize it below
Too be honst, it depends on how you explain the nature of those problems. If you suggest it is something inherent in the race, then you're pretty much racist. it you look at the historical and societial problems that led to the problems, not so much.
Your legal problems are interesting but irrelevant. College kids can do as they please, come to class or not, pass or fail. They are paying (or their parents) for the classes, so no one can force them to be there. Public school is very different. Kids up to a certain age are required to be there or the parents can be fined and/or jailed.
If the kids don't come to class, contact the police or truant officer. That's all a teacher can do.
Would you, have you passed kids that could not read or pass your tests ??
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