• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every persons position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Replace public prisons with public hospitals

unccmathtutor

New member
Joined
Aug 12, 2012
Messages
2
Reaction score
2
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
A co-worker of mine recently refused medical treatment after a seizure because he was uninsured and could not afford it. This is not right. The government will save your life if someone's trying to shoot you and take your money, yet once you have been shot and robbed, you're on your own.

A few days earlier, I had watched an episode of 60 minutes, which reported on the German prison system. German prisons emphasize recovery, rather than punishment. Breaking the law is seen as a sign of mental illness and/or desperation.

As I thought about my co-worker, the "aha" moment occurred to me. If U.S. prisons are overrun with people whose basic needs are not being met, let's replace those publicly funded prisons with publicly funded clinics that can meet those needs.

What do you think?
 

_Sal

DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 9, 2014
Messages
6,472
Reaction score
2,705
Location
somewhere across the border in the great North
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Liberal
A co-worker of mine recently refused medical treatment after a seizure because he was uninsured and could not afford it. This is not right. The government will save your life if someone's trying to shoot you and take your money, yet once you have been shot and robbed, you're on your own.

A few days earlier, I had watched an episode of 60 minutes, which reported on the German prison system. German prisons emphasize recovery, rather than punishment. Breaking the law is seen as a sign of mental illness and/or desperation.

As I thought about my co-worker, the "aha" moment occurred to me. If U.S. prisons are overrun with people whose basic needs are not being met, let's replace those publicly funded prisons with publicly funded clinics that can meet those needs.

What do you think?
I think it would save society a lot of money and suffering which means it's way too humane and logical...we should just shoot them instead
 

Glen Contrarian

DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 21, 2013
Messages
17,688
Reaction score
8,046
Location
Bernie to the left of me, Hillary to the right, he
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Progressive
A co-worker of mine recently refused medical treatment after a seizure because he was uninsured and could not afford it. This is not right. The government will save your life if someone's trying to shoot you and take your money, yet once you have been shot and robbed, you're on your own.

A few days earlier, I had watched an episode of 60 minutes, which reported on the German prison system. German prisons emphasize recovery, rather than punishment. Breaking the law is seen as a sign of mental illness and/or desperation.

As I thought about my co-worker, the "aha" moment occurred to me. If U.S. prisons are overrun with people whose basic needs are not being met, let's replace those publicly funded prisons with publicly funded clinics that can meet those needs.

What do you think?

Problem is, you've got nearly half the nation who are convinced that anyone who commits a crime is automatically beyond redemption, and that they have zero chance of ever being good, productive, and dignified citizens...and that anyone with such empathy for them must be socialist or Nazi or {choose your anti-American epithet}.
 

RetiredUSN

DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 13, 2016
Messages
26,529
Reaction score
13,494
Location
Norfolk Virginia area.
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
A co-worker of mine recently refused medical treatment after a seizure because he was uninsured and could not afford it. This is not right. The government will save your life if someone's trying to shoot you and take your money, yet once you have been shot and robbed, you're on your own.

A few days earlier, I had watched an episode of 60 minutes, which reported on the German prison system. German prisons emphasize recovery, rather than punishment. Breaking the law is seen as a sign of mental illness and/or desperation.

As I thought about my co-worker, the "aha" moment occurred to me. If U.S. prisons are overrun with people whose basic needs are not being met, let's replace those publicly funded prisons with publicly funded clinics that can meet those needs.

What do you think?

Bad guy walks right past a couple "laborers wanted" signs, and knocks off a 7-11 for 200 bucks.

How does your theory work in this case?
 

Captain Adverse

Classical Liberal Sage
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 22, 2013
Messages
16,131
Reaction score
21,198
Location
Mid-West USA
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
A few days earlier, I had watched an episode of 60 minutes, which reported on the German prison system. German prisons emphasize recovery, rather than punishment. Breaking the law is seen as a sign of mental illness and/or desperation.

As I thought about my co-worker, the "aha" moment occurred to me. If U.S. prisons are overrun with people whose basic needs are not being met, let's replace those publicly funded prisons with publicly funded clinics that can meet those needs.

What do you think?

I think that no matter how much you give to people, some of them will want more.

Of that number some will want to get it the easiest and fastest way possible, by simply taking from someone who already has it.

In other words, there will always be greedy opportunistic people willing to prey on others rather than work to achieve their goals honestly.

That is not to say I don't believe in either rehabilitation or reformation. I do, and support such efforts with all my heart because many people who have turned to crime are redeemable.

There will simply always be some people who choose to take what they think is the easiest path to self-gratification.
 
Last edited:

digsbe

Truth will set you free
Moderator
DP Veteran
Joined
May 13, 2009
Messages
20,230
Reaction score
14,236
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
Prison needs reformed, but an emphasis needs to be placed on the fact that these people are criminals and shouldn't be coddled with some "you're a victim" mentality with a naive belief that they just need some help and rehab to be "good people."

Violent criminals like whoever is responsible for the shooting in Ohio need a fast track to the death penalty. Such a person is a threat to society and "rehab" should not be an option. In clear, heinous crimes like this they should be put down within a few months of sentencing, not decades. For inmates in prison the solution should be to reform prisons to include labor, with labor being recognized as part of any rehab program. Make them work to "pay off" their prison stay. Right now with people simply being detained and fed at the state's expense is not acceptable or efficient.

I think non-violent drug offenders should be given rehab, but don't assume they want it or that they won't return to drugs. Each inmate should be made to work regardless of why they are there. You cannot rehabilitate character flaws someone chooses to hold, there are genuinely bad people out there who chose to simply be evil. People breaking the law have character flaws, trying to coddle it with "mental illness" does society and the inmate an injustice. Some may be mentally ill, but even if they are they still choose the crime and many are simply bad people. I don't understand why this naive view that most issues are due to mental illness or criminals are somehow a victim with a seemingly reluctant position behind recognizing character flaws and personal bad decisions made from bad intentions is so prevalent.
 
Last edited:

Thrilla

DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 13, 2011
Messages
20,295
Reaction score
9,801
Location
Texas, Vegas, Colombia
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
Problem is, you've got nearly half the nation who are convinced that anyone who commits a crime is automatically beyond redemption, and that they have zero chance of ever being good, productive, and dignified citizens...and that anyone with such empathy for them must be socialist or Nazi or {choose your anti-American epithet}.

*citation needed, facts are in dispute.
 

Carjosse

Sit Nomine Digna
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 14, 2012
Messages
14,512
Reaction score
6,238
Location
Montreal, QC
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
Prison needs reformed, but an emphasis needs to be placed on the fact that these people are criminals and shouldn't be coddled with some "you're a victim" mentality with a naive belief that they just need some help and rehab to be "good people."

Violent criminals like whoever is responsible for the shooting in Ohio need a fast track to the death penalty. Such a person is a threat to society and "rehab" should not be an option. In clear, heinous crimes like this they should be put down within a few months of sentencing, not decades. For inmates in prison the solution should be to reform prisons to include labor, with labor being recognized as part of any rehab program. Make them work to "pay off" their prison stay. Right now with people simply being detained and fed at the state's expense is not acceptable or efficient.

I think non-violent drug offenders should be given rehab, but don't assume they want it or that they won't return to drugs. Each inmate should be made to work regardless of why they are there. You cannot rehabilitate character flaws someone chooses to hold, there are genuinely bad people out there who chose to simply be evil. People breaking the law have character flaws, trying to coddle it with "mental illness" does society and the inmate an injustice. Some may be mentally ill, but even if they are they still choose the crime and many are simply bad people. I don't understand why this naive view that most issues are due to mental illness or criminals are somehow a victim with a seemingly reluctant position behind recognizing character flaws and personal bad decisions made from bad intentions is so prevalent.

Non-violent drug offenders should not even be going to prison in the first place, prison is for people who are a danger to society. Even murderers should be able to be released at some point if it is deemed they can be released safely. Take Denis Lortie for example, in the 80s he shot up the Quebec National Assembly killing three people and wounding 13 people, today he is living a quiet life in a small Quebec town with his family harming no one. I am sure many people wanted the death penalty. It is even cheaper to have people not go to prison in the first place. If you give people a way out of criminal life a large majority of them will take it, there is prison for the rest of them.
 

digsbe

Truth will set you free
Moderator
DP Veteran
Joined
May 13, 2009
Messages
20,230
Reaction score
14,236
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
Non-violent drug offenders should not even be going to prison in the first place, prison is for people who are a danger to society. Even murderers should be able to be released at some point if it is deemed they can be released safely. Take Denis Lortie for example, in the 80s he shot up the Quebec National Assembly killing three people and wounding 13 people, today he is living a quiet life in a small Quebec town with his family harming no one. I am sure many people wanted the death penalty. It is even cheaper to have people not go to prison in the first place. If you give people a way out of criminal life a large majority of them will take it, there is prison for the rest of them.

I would agree with not putting non-violent drug offenders in prison on their first or second offenses. I'd say adequate handling of violations should be them paying a fine and put on probation with that including mandatory rehab and drug screenings. For the record I think marijuana should be legalized recreationally, I'd consider "drug offenses" to be possession of harmful drugs like heroin, cocaine, meth, etc. That being said I would also support "good Samaritan" laws providing people with prosecutorial immunity if they call 911 or bring someone who has overdosed to a hospital from being charged with crimes so long as that would only be possession of the substance.

I think unrepentant murderers or those guilty of heinous acts should be swiftly executed. Some people may be "rehabable" and not commit further crimes, but their release still comes with the risk that the person may harm others and as a law abiding citizen I don't believe the risk is worth it in such cases. The criminal and law enforcement system should exist with the primary focus of ensuring the well-being of law-abiding citizens with all other concerns coming secondary to that. The death penalty should exist for serious and heinous crimes and people who commit those crimes should be tried with that as a legal option. Their choice to commit the crime should void their right to life with execution being done on grounds of eliminating a public safety threat and not based on revenge. People who have chosen to maliciously kill should be weighed in court as if they are a further threat to others and treated accordingly. Even if they are released I believe a stipulation should exist that says any second offense or attempt at killing another person will result automatically in a swift execution, at that point not only have they continued to harm or be a threat to others but they've also abused any kind of mercy that was shown to them. I'm not for widely applying the death penalty for most offenders and think it should be reserved for extreme cases, but I see no point in jailing someone indefinitely who's life is a risk to others and deemed unsafe to the public. They should be executed swiftly and cost-effectively.
 
Top Bottom