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Registration

Would you Register Your Firearms

  • Total voters
    31
  • Poll closed .
haymarket said:
I am suggesting upping the ante until criminals do care about it.

.
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upping the ante? the death penalty isn't a deterrent for criminals already.. and you think upping the ante is going to "make them care"

Cripes.. criminals risk the death penalty by killing a clerk over 50 bucks.. but you think they are going to care about gun registration.

your premise simply is not logical nor reasonable..
 
jaeger19 said:
upping the ante? the death penalty isn't a deterrent for criminals already.. and you think upping the ante is going to "make them care"

Cripes.. criminals risk the death penalty by killing a clerk over 50 bucks.. but you think they are going to care about gun registration.

your premise simply is not logical nor reasonable..
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So we cannot have national registration since not everybody will register their guns and we cannot penalize people for not registering their guns because they do not expect to get caught or ever pay a penalty.

Is that pretty much it?
 
Moon said:
And here I thought you actually wanted an honest conversation, and then you had to go with the old "fear" canard. People who carry aren't normally living in fear, though some have cause if they are threatened by someone, or for people dealing with stalkers, etc. It's a tool to help you defend yourself if you need it, and it's just common sense, like locking your house or car. Just because one chooses to be responsible for their own defense, that doesn't mean they're afraid or are planning to shoot someone.
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lol...it's ok, man, it's not an insult, or it wasn't meant to be anyway... You give up on a guy pretty quick with your "And here I thought you actually wanted an honest conversation". I'm having an honest conversation, maybe I used an insensitive word? I don't know how else to refer to it.

To draw parallel's, I have a smoke detector in my house because the thought of being without one in the event of a fire is scary, so I do the responsible thing and have a smoke detector. I do any number of things, not just because they are on a list somewhere as "responsible", but also because I'm motivated by the "fear" of the consequences of not doing so. Yet I never miss having a gun in my life for protection. I never feel fear as a result of that, but I would be nervous AF to live in a house that didn't have smoke detectors.

But I realize that's a privilege, and that life isn't like that everywhere, so I'm not making any judgements about Americans who do feel that way. Acknowledging and acting on one's fear in a way to mitigate is just a long way of describing the act of being responsible. I'm not anti gun at all, man, don't give up on me yet! ;)
 
Glen Contrarian said:
With registration, gun owners are required to inform the police when their guns are sold (to someone legally allowed to possess and who then registered the firearm in question) AND when the firearm is stolen. The responsibility is on the one to whom the firearm is registered at the time...and when illegally-possessed firearms are found at a crime scene, the ATF looks to see who the most recent registered owner was, and goes to him and says, "You were the most recent registered owner. You didn't report the sale or theft of this firearm as you are required to do by law. You are therefore legally responsible for what this criminal did with your firearm." Same thing that happens with cars, btw.

Do that, and all of a sudden unscrupulous owners will stop selling firearms to anyone who walks up to them with money.

But don't worry, this will never happen in your lifetime since this would cost the gun manufacturers tens of millions in annual revenue, and they (and their puppet the NRA) will happily politically crucify any Republican politician who would dare vote for registration...'cause those profits are FAR more important than doing anything about gun smuggling....
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If an unscrupulous person sells to someone...they just report it missing or stolen. They knowingly dont want it traced back to them as an intentional sale.

And stop pouting about the influence of gun manufacturers. Every business has profit as their bottom line.
 
haymarket said:
Perhaps after a half a century it is time to revisit that decision now that the Court has fully turned over its roster?
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What has changed? The 5A is intact and convicted felons still can't legally own, much less register, a gun.
 
Glen Contrarian said:
Just like automobile VIN numbers go away with a simple metal file?

Here's a clue - make something very difficult to do, and a lot fewer people will do it. If the firearm registration number is in places that are very difficult to get to, sure, there will still be some who will find a way to erase those numbers...BUT the great majority of criminals won't. Why? Because most criminals are lazy - that's why they decided to take up a life of crime in the first place.
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Please source that criminals are lazy?

And they probably dont care...if they didnt buy it legally, it cant be traced to them :doh

However anyone choosing to sell to a prohibited person certainly finds it worthwhile.
 
haymarket said:
What if we had the death penalty for anyone committing crime with a firearm that was not registered? Do you think that might be effective towards solving the problem of people not registering? If you don't approve of the death penalty, substitute twenty years if it makes it easier for your consideration.
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Has 3 strikes legislation been effective where it's implemented?

And I like how, if someone like me made a mistake and got numbers screwed up registering a firearm or other bureaucratic mistake was made, we'd be killed or locked up forever. Since I've seen plenty of bureaucratic nightmares and govt incompetence...my answer is no.

(But I bet that would be much stronger motivation for removing serial numbers and/or reporting your illegally sold firearms stolen. :))
 
ttwtt78640 said:
What has changed? The 5A is intact and convicted felons still can't legally own, much less register, a gun.
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I notice that Chief Justice Earl Warren dissented and Justice Marshall did not participate. So this is not something that is 100% of one mind.

I do not see why a person making a choice with their own behavior to be a criminal should work in their favor and exempt them from obeying the law like everyone else. Do you?
 
Glen Contrarian said:
Well, then, obviously we should get rid of the laws against robbing banks, because it doesn't matter if we have those laws - the criminals will still rob the banks!

:roll:
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That old saw.

Laws against things like rape, murder, robbery...those dont put any burden on law-abiding people.
 
Glen Contrarian said:
Yes, there would be SOME who would do just as you say...but there would be a lot more who would NOT. You can't say "we shouldn't have this law because people would break this law or just get around it" - that is NEVER a reason to not have a law. That's like saying "get rid of laws against bank robbers 'cause they'll just do it anyway."

There's an old saying: don't sacrifice the good in order to achieve the perfect. You will NEVER get a perfect law that stops all of a certain crime...but you CAN have a law that would decrease (to lesser or greater extents) that crime. Speed limits don't stop people from speeding...but it DOES get more people to slow down...especially after they or their friends get speeding tickets along the way.
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LOL you keep upping the stakes for people not following that law...and you expect people that choose to break the law to not be motivated to get around it or not follow it?
:doh

You assume criminals are stupid and lazy. Sorry, that's a dumb thing to base useless-feel good legislation on.

Edit: sorry, it was Haymarket that also increased the punitive side.
 
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Casper said:
Actually they are not, the paper work is only kept a short time them discarded, there is no Nation Database.
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Mandatory to be kept for 7 years I believe. Perhaps we could require longer records of sale?
 
double post - deleted
 
haymarket said:
I notice that Chief Justice Earl Warren dissented and Justice Marshall did not participate. So this is not something that is 100% of one mind.

I do not see why a person making a choice with their own behavior to be a criminal should work in their favor and exempt them from obeying the law like everyone else. Do you?
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It is unlikely that the penalty for possessing an unregistered gun would be any higher than the penalty for a felon possessing any gun.

A person convicted of Unlawful Possession of a Firearm by a Felon can and likely will face a 3rd degree felony charge and possibly up to 10 years in the Texas Penitentiary and up to a $10,000 fine.
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https://www.bhwlawfirm.com/firearm-possession-by-felon-texas/
 
Glen Contrarian said:
Just like automobile VIN numbers go away with a simple metal file?

Here's a clue - make something very difficult to do, and a lot fewer people will do it. If the firearm registration number is in places that are very difficult to get to, sure, there will still be some who will find a way to erase those numbers...BUT the great majority of criminals won't. Why? Because most criminals are lazy - that's why they decided to take up a life of crime in the first place.
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While that's true -- it often creates a black market that is much more dangerous than the situation you were trying to fix. Look at the war on drugs or Prohibition. Both of those laws that made something difficult to do ended up having deadly repercussions, and there's nothing to indicate that doing something similar with guns would have any better outcome.
 
One can register whatever they choose.

Registering your guns is not going to stop anyone from buying illegal arms including the bump stock.
Laws are made for folks to get around them.
No matter where you live there's someone around the corner or along the highway selling something as long as you have the $$$$.
 
Glen Contrarian said:
Well, then, obviously we should get rid of the laws against robbing banks, because it doesn't matter if we have those laws - the criminals will still rob the banks!

:roll:
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Ok, so you think just because they enact full registration, criminals are going to stop being criminals. That's so ridiculous. Smuggling guns is already illegal, guess they will really listen this time :roll:
 
OlNate said:
lol...it's ok, man, it's not an insult, or it wasn't meant to be anyway... You give up on a guy pretty quick with your "And here I thought you actually wanted an honest conversation". I'm having an honest conversation, maybe I used an insensitive word? I don't know how else to refer to it.

To draw parallel's, I have a smoke detector in my house because the thought of being without one in the event of a fire is scary, so I do the responsible thing and have a smoke detector. I do any number of things, not just because they are on a list somewhere as "responsible", but also because I'm motivated by the "fear" of the consequences of not doing so. Yet I never miss having a gun in my life for protection. I never feel fear as a result of that, but I would be nervous AF to live in a house that didn't have smoke detectors.

But I realize that's a privilege, and that life isn't like that everywhere, so I'm not making any judgements about Americans who do feel that way. Acknowledging and acting on one's fear in a way to mitigate is just a long way of describing the act of being responsible. I'm not anti gun at all, man, don't give up on me yet! ;)
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Carrying because you live in fear is a typical statement made by the anti-gun extremists here. My apologies.
 
Moon said:
Carrying because you live in fear is a typical statement made by the anti-gun extremists here. My apologies.
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It's all good...the Progressive tag tends to draw assumptions. :) Not only am I not an anti-gun progressive, I'm also a Christian progressive. Basically everyone hates me at first... ;) hehe
 
OlNate said:
It's all good...the Progressive tag tends to draw assumptions. :) Not only am I not an anti-gun progressive, I'm also a Christian progressive. Basically everyone hates me at first... ;) hehe
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Well, you're Canadian, so we make allowances for that handicap. [emoji14]
 
Moon said:
Well, you're Canadian, so we make allowances for that handicap. [emoji14]
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:lamo Yes, being Canadian does tend to come with a certain number of get out of jail free cards...unless you're talking about milk, metal, or softwood. Then everyone gets all serious... ;) haha

Ah well, guess that's why we can hold our beer better... :P

Have a good one, Moon. You're alright. I'm sure we'll be bitter rivals over something else soon... ;)
 
haymarket said:
They already went back and rewrote the law after the decision. Seem to be another look needs to be carefully taken at this and a solution crafted.
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I have already pointed out that there is an existing solution - a convicted felon can be charged for possessing any gun, registered or not.
 
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