Real Time with Bill Maher: Middle Class Economics

[Verax]

It took a financial meltdown and decades of the middle class getting repeatedly pummeled but it looks like "free market" economics days are numbered. More and more people are waking up to the reality that trickled on economics works great for the top 1%, perhaps even moderately well for the top 10 or 20%, but doesn't work for anyone else and results in crony Capitalism. The true believers still swear their big paycheck is coming, if only we'd cut the <100B in welfare going to the "moochers". But irrespective of red herrings, Reaganomics doesn't work for the middle class and especially not for the lower classes. It's time for a paradigm shift. We shrugged off Keynesian economics in the 70's and went far right into "free" markets. Now its time to swing back to the left and build another middle class the whole world will envy.

 

[Henrin]

It took a financial meltdown and decades of the middle class getting repeatedly pummeled but it looks like "free market" economics days are numbered. More and more people are waking up to the reality that trickled on economics works great for the top 1%, perhaps even moderately well for the top 10 or 20%, but doesn't work for anyone else and results in crony Capitalism. The true believers still swear their big paycheck is coming, if only we'd cut the <100B in welfare going to the "moochers". But irrespective of red herrings, Reaganomics doesn't work for the middle class and especially not for the lower classes. It's time for a paradigm shift. We shrugged off Keynesian economics in the 70's and went far right into "free" markets. Now its time to swing back to the left and build another middle class the whole world will envy.

Says the guy with an unreal logo as an avatar. Epic games has the biggest engine in the business, and you're bitching about capitalism? Oh man, so many things to say about that.

 

[RabidAlpaca]

While I completely agree that income inequality is a huge problem, and that it must be addressed, I don't think it's fair to call what we have a "free market" any more than it is fair to call what we have a "democracy". We have an oligarchy in which the oligarchs are bought and sold like packs of cigarettes by corporations. Keynesianism is also something I think we'd best avoid. Breaking windows doesn't create wealth or prosperity. Giving more money to the already rich will only exacerbate the problem.

We need to have tight regulations on what corporations can and can not do, and we need to rid our politics of corporate influence. I personally think we should give political candidates a fixed campaign fund and restrict any third party 'donations' that might make them indebted to their donors. This would also give the candidates a chance to prove who can make the most out of the money they're given, not see who can suck the most corporate ****.

We can't really make a dent in income inequality until we can remove the stranglehold the mega rich have over our politicians.

 

[Verax]

Says the guy with an unreal logo as an avatar. Epic games has the biggest engine in the business, and you're bitching about capitalism? Oh man, so many things to say about that.

It's actually the logo for Unreal Tournament 4, not Unreal Engine or Epic games.

Where did I say I'm against capitalism or corporations anyway?

 

[Brochacholomigo]

 

[Verax]

While I completely agree that income inequality is a huge problem, and that it must be addressed, I don't think it's fair to call what we have a "free market" any more than it is fair to call what we have a "democracy". We have an oligarchy in which the oligarchs are bought and sold like packs of cigarettes by corporations. Keynesianism is also something I think we'd best avoid. Breaking windows doesn't create wealth or prosperity. Giving more money to the already rich will only exacerbate the problem.

We need to have tight regulations on what corporations can and can not do, and we need to rid our politics of corporate influence. I personally think we should give political candidates a fixed campaign fund and restrict any third party 'donations' that might make them indebted to their donors. This would also give the candidates a chance to prove who can make the most out of the money they're given, not see who can suck the most corporate ****.

We can't really make a dent in income inequality until we can remove the stranglehold the mega rich have over our politicians.

"Free market" is the title given to the economic system we've employed in the last four decades regardless of how free it is. It has greatly benefited the top 1% and in turn their increased wealth has given them increased political power. Redistributing wealth to the people would shift the power structure back towards the middle class and create a more fair political environment. As is the case now most people have little to no wealth and thus are of little consequence to politicians.

I'd argue Keynesian economics most definitely creates wealth and prosperity in that a strong middle class creates a strong economy. The consumers need purchasing power to drive demand, they can't do that if all the wealth is squirreled away with the top 1%.

I agree we need political reform but I can't imagine we'd change the dynamic of the people having much influence unless we increase their wealth. Politicians court power structures, the people just don't have any wealth and thus any power right now. Once the unions were busted, manufacturing went oversee, laborers became an expendable majority, the common person lost any real value in America. That's not going to come back unless we change the rules to make it so. We need a strong, wealthy, protected, consumer class that makes a liveable wage.

 

[Henrin]

It's actually the logo for Unreal Tournament 4, not Unreal Engine or Epic games.

Where did I say I'm against capitalism or corporations anyway?

Unreal Tournament is a made by Epic Games and is part of the unreal series. It is even made to promote their engine, which is more or less the only reason they still make the series at all.

 

[Verax]

Unreal Tournament is a made by Epic Games and is part of the unreal series. It is even made to promote their engine, which is more or less the only reason they still make the series at all.

Yes I know, I'm working on the game in my spare time.

 

[RabidAlpaca]

"Free market" is the title given to the economic system we've employed in the last four decades regardless of how free it is. It has greatly benefited the top 1% and in turn their increased wealth has given them increased political power. Redistributing wealth to the people would shift the power structure back towards the middle class and create a more fair political environment. As is the case now most people have little to no wealth and thus are of little consequence to politicians.

I'd argue Keynesian economics most definitely creates wealth and prosperity in that a strong middle class creates a strong economy. The consumers need purchasing power to drive demand, they can't do that if all the wealth is squirreled away with the top 1%.

I agree we need political reform but I can't imagine we'd change the dynamic of the people having much influence unless we increase their wealth. Politicians court power structures, the people just don't have any wealth and thus any power right now. Once the unions were busted, manufacturing went oversee, laborers became an expendable majority, the common person lost any real value in America. That's not going to come back unless we change the rules to make it so. We need a strong, wealthy, protected, consumer class that makes a liveable wage.

Politicians are supposed to be servants of the people. They need to be held to higher standards. When a corporation buys a politician, I'm far, far, more upset with the politician because he is in dereliction of his duty. We can't pass a bunch of regulations without having our politicians on board (they kind of make those laws), and we can't get them on board as long as they're in someone else's pocket.

 

[Fletch]

As if we haven't been engaged in Keynesian economics for nearly a century...

 

[Henrin]

Yes I know, I'm working on the game in my spare time.

Then you know why I called it the unreal logo, right? Yes, it's the UT4 version of it, but it is still the unreal logo.

 

[reinoe]

While I completely agree that income inequality is a huge problem, and that it must be addressed, I don't think it's fair to call what we have a "free market" any more than it is fair to call what we have a "democracy". We have an oligarchy in which the oligarchs are bought and sold like packs of cigarettes by corporations. Keynesianism is also something I think we'd best avoid. Breaking windows doesn't create wealth or prosperity. Giving more money to the already rich will only exacerbate the problem.

We need to have tight regulations on what corporations can and can not do, and we need to rid our politics of corporate influence. I personally think we should give political candidates a fixed campaign fund and restrict any third party 'donations' that might make them indebted to their donors. This would also give the candidates a chance to prove who can make the most out of the money they're given, not see who can suck the most corporate ****.

We can't really make a dent in income inequality until we can remove the stranglehold the mega rich have over our politicians.

Do you know how refreshing it is to see another libertarian who doesn't reflexively hate the word "regulation"?

 

[Verax]

Then you know why I called it the unreal logo, right? Yes, it's the UT4 version of it, but it is still the unreal logo.

Yeah, but what I'm representing is the game.

The Unreal Engine has a little 4 next to it. The Epic logo is completely different. The red U logo is for Unreal Tournament 4. The blue U logo was for Unreal Tournament 2004.

 

[Henrin]

Yeah, but what I'm representing is the game.

The Unreal Engine has a little 4 next to it. The Epic logo is completely different. The red U logo is for Unreal Tournament 4. The blue U logo was for Unreal Tournament 2004.

I'm referring to the logo itself. The U has been the logo for the unreal series since pretty since the beginning. Hell, the font used for the U in UT, UT2003/UT2004, UT3 and now UT4 has been that way since the beginning.

 

[Verax]

As if we haven't been engaged in Keynesian economics for nearly a century...

From about WWII to the mid 70's Keynesian was the dominant model.

 

[Fletch]

From about WWII to the mid 70's Keynesian was the dominant model.

And it is today as well.

 

[Verax]

And it is today as well.

Uh huh. :roll:

 

[Fletch]

Uh huh. :roll:

You have been reduced to emotocons. Good answer. Tell me how Keynesian economics would differ from what is happening now.

 

[Verax]

You have been reduced to emotocons. Good answer. Tell me how Keynesian economics would differ from what is happening now.

I'm not going to waste time with such a stupid argument. If you think what we've been doing in the last 35 years or today is primarily Keynesian then there is no hope for you. "Free market" economics has failed everyone but the top 1% and you're not going to weasel out of it by calling it something else or claiming we just didn't do it hard enough.

 

[Fletch]

I'm not going to waste time with such a stupid argument. If you think what we've been doing in the last 35 years or today is primarily Keynesian then there is no hope for you. "Free market" economics has failed everyone but the top 1% and you're not going to weasel out of it by calling it something else or claiming we just didn't do it hard enough.

Typical socialist. Cant answer a simple question.

 

[Henrin]

I'm not going to waste time with such a stupid argument. If you think what we've been doing in the last 35 years or today is primarily Keynesian then there is no hope for you. "Free market" economics has failed everyone but the top 1% and you're not going to weasel out of it by calling it something else or claiming we just didn't do it hard enough.

What in the **** does the free market have to do with the bail out, the government funding the majority of innovation in the country, the government mandating minimum pay or for that matter every regulation on the books, ACA, welfare, all of the subsidies that have been going since the 19th century, etc, etc, etc? What in the **** are you talking about?

 

[Fletch]

What in the **** does the free market have to do with the bail out, the government funding the majority of innovation in the country, the government mandating minimum pay or for that matter every regulation on the books, ACA, welfare, all of the subsidies that have been going since the 19th century, etc, etc, etc? What in the **** are you talking about?

Every single day for the last hundred years the government has become more and more involved in the economy of this country. Funny how leftists only blame the market when something goes wrong. Earth to leftists: we are a mixed economy, not a capitalist economy.

 

[Henrin]

Every single day for the last hundred years the government has become more and more involved in the economy of this country. Funny how leftists only blame the market when something goes wrong. Earth to leftists: we are a mixed economy, not a capitalist economy.

It's been going on since the 19th century and somehow someway leftists still want to blame everything on the free market. The free market is about as much a problem as ghosts trying to take over the world and kill all the living.

 

[Henrin]

From about WWII to the mid 70's Keynesian was the dominant model.

Remember that inflation of the sixties and seventies and that nice long recession in the 1970's?

 

[Verax]

What in the **** does the free market have to do with the bail out, the government funding the majority of innovation in the country, the government mandating minimum pay or for that matter every regulation on the books, ACA, welfare, all of the subsidies that have been going since the 19th century, etc, etc, etc? What in the **** are you talking about?

Free market economics, deregulation, created the financial collapse. Government action to stop the cataclysm is hardly "Keynesian", its called cleaning up the disaster.

The minimum wage is far too low and every Keynesian economist out there has been calling for much, much higher wages for a long time.

ACA was a baby step in the right direction, Keynesians call for single payer universal healthcare.

The welfare state has remained fairly flat in the last 40 years yet wealth has increased 3x, but only for the richest 1%. Expansion of the welfare state would go a long way in bolstering the middle and lower classes.

Most of the subsidies are provided as tax breaks to the top 1%. Keynesians would subsidize the poor, and middle class more and the top 1% less.