Real talk on solutions to mass shooting

[Phys251]

Since it is obviously impossible to predict with any accuracy who, currently allowed to roam freely among us, might become tomorrow's mass shooter then what, short of a total gun ban, could possibly meet your goal?

That's a good question. So far only one proposal has been offered, and it was a joke proposal at that.

Hard to have a civil discussion about mass shooting prevention techniques when people won't step up to the plate and contribute concrete suggestions. :shrug:

 

[Phys251]

lets see

the guy hauled 400 pounds or more gear to his room

he smashed out storm proof windows with a heavy hammer

he disabled security measures in a CASINO and set up his OWN MONITORING cameras to warn him of police flanking maneuvers

he was able to fire for ten or more minutes before people figured out what room he was in

If he had had to pass through a metal detector somewhere on the ground floor before going to his room, do you think he could have smuggled even a fraction of all that materiel up to his room?

 

[Hawkeye10]

lets see

the guy hauled 400 pounds or more gear to his room

he smashed out storm proof windows with a heavy hammer

he disabled security measures in a CASINO and set up his OWN MONITORING cameras to warn him of police flanking maneuvers

he was able to fire for ten or more minutes before people figured out what room he was in

Wynn Hotels are very proud that this would never happen on their turf.

 

[BretJ]

No, those articles say it isn't the ONLY problem. We knew that.

They claim 3-5% of shootings involve mental illness. Well yeah.... probably the random mass murder part.


It is still worth addressing, especially if you're talking about addressing random mass murders like Vegas.

Even if it saves just one life....

 

[PirateMk1]

lets see

the guy hauled 400 pounds or more gear to his room

he smashed out storm proof windows with a heavy hammer

he disabled security measures in a CASINO and set up his OWN MONITORING cameras to warn him of police flanking maneuvers

he was able to fire for ten or more minutes before people figured out what room he was in

They must have some really good sound proofing on those rooms at the Mandalay Bay. I don't know what rating of windows they have but the stuff that handle Cat 5 hurricanes can take .45 at close range. The only way to take out those windows without a lot of noise is with some sort of torch, or similar.

 

[MACS-24]

Was the Mandalay Bay hotel legally a gun-free zone?

From what I hear, yes but I was addressing the discussion Rucker last started -"We should concentrate more on offices, schools, open spaces and houses of worship, according to FBI data."

 

[Rucker61]

Was the Mandalay Bay hotel legally a gun-free zone?

Does it have to be a legal restriction, or should we ignore private property rights?

 

[TurtleDude]

They must have some really good sound proofing on those rooms at the Mandalay Bay. I don't know what rating of windows they have but the stuff that handle Cat 5 hurricanes can take .45 at close range. The only way to take out those windows without a lot of noise is with some sort of torch, or similar.

one of my buddies who does construction and roofing said it would take him (he's a big strong guy who I have seen carry 200 pounds of stuff up a ladder easily) a good deal of time with a 4 pound sledge to break one of those windows out. I said, could I hear it-and he pointed to the farthest point on my property-600 yards away-and said-yeah from there

 

[Rucker61]

If he had had to pass through a metal detector somewhere on the ground floor before going to his room, do you think he could have smuggled even a fraction of all that materiel up to his room?

You'd have to search every suitcase, and in the case of schools and businesses, every backpack, every day. Lots of legal metal in those bags.

 

[BretJ]

If he had had to pass through a metal detector somewhere on the ground floor before going to his room, do you think he could have smuggled even a fraction of all that materiel up to his room?

You are being facetious I hope. But yes he could have...short of putting a TSA type security checkpoint at every single entrance (x-rays, etc.) It would never fly with the general public nor be economically feasable for the hotels.

 

[PirateMk1]

one of my buddies who does construction and roofing said it would take him (he's a big strong guy who I have seen carry 200 pounds of stuff up a ladder easily) a good deal of time with a 4 pound sledge to break one of those windows out. I said, could I hear it-and he pointed to the farthest point on my property-600 yards away-and said-yeah from there

I wonder if there were any noise complaints from that floor or the rooms next and adjacent.

 

[CLAX1911]

Another day in America, another mass shooting. This one got more attention because of the high death toll, but the fact is, mass shootings have become more common in the US.

This is not a problem that most other developed nations choose to struggle with. Yes, choose. We collectively choose not to address this problem. And when our politicians are asked to do something, anything, this is how some of them reply:

"I think it’s particularly inappropriate to politicize an event like this, it just happened in the last day-and-a-half. It’s entirely premature to be discussing legislative solutions, if any." --Mitch McConnell, R-KY

"I don’t think this is a problem a law is going to fix by itself." --Lindsey Graham, R-SC

"I don’t know if legislation can [prevent mass shootings]." --Richard Shelby, R-AL

"[Y]ou never accept the fact that you can [prevent mass shootings]. ... [Y]ou should never accept the fact that you can do it." --Johnny Isakson, R-GA

"As somebody said: get small." --John Thune, R-SD

Get small? Are you ****ing kidding me, Mr. Thune? And go screw yourself and your fatalistic attitude, Mr. Isakson. Great American spirit you have there, that we're just gonna throw in the towel. :roll:

Very simply, I want to say this: If we assume for the sake of argument that stricter gun laws are not acceptable, then inaction on mass shootings is equally unacceptable. It is no longer acceptable to bury our collective heads in the sand and claim that we can do nothing, or that we all need to "get small."

So, to those who fiercely oppose gun control, I want to know specific laws that can be put into place to prevent these kinds of tragedies in the future. Inaction is no longer acceptable.

none can. In order to prevent these things one must be clairvoyant. To my knowledge they don't talk about their plans to kill a bunch of people. So the point at which to stop him would habe been the entire life up until the moment he pulled the trigger. How was anybody supposed to know that he would while pointing his gun at the crowd?

Gun control wouldn't stop this, not without completely destroying our nation. There are estimates of up to 400 million guns owned in the United states. Unless they are all removed anybody can use them at any time to kill. So the feat of taking them away would exhaust our entire economy military and citizenry. So nothing feasible can be done to remove guns from our society.

Even then mass murder can still occur. People have used vehicles and explosives to commit mass murder.

But this is all moot because we are back to the issue of not knowing what a mad man would do. If we could i doubt there would be any use for guns likely no war or any violent crime.

Its terrible that this happened but pretending you can make a law and it'll disappear is not a solution.

 

[Rucker61]

one of my buddies who does construction and roofing said it would take him (he's a big strong guy who I have seen carry 200 pounds of stuff up a ladder easily) a good deal of time with a 4 pound sledge to break one of those windows out. I said, could I hear it-and he pointed to the farthest point on my property-600 yards away-and said-yeah from there

Maybe putting up with strange noise is an artifact of Vegas.

 

[CLAX1911]

Addressing the lack of adequate mental health care systems in the nation is the single biggest one.

this person to my knowledge hand no indicators of being mentally ill.

 

[Hawkeye10]

one of my buddies who does construction and roofing said it would take him (he's a big strong guy who I have seen carry 200 pounds of stuff up a ladder easily) a good deal of time with a 4 pound sledge to break one of those windows out. I said, could I hear it-and he pointed to the farthest point on my property-600 yards away-and said-yeah from there

And yet he could break it.

How many days till someone sues the Hotel over that?

Because this is America, with our broken justice system, so in love with Victim Culture.

 

[TurtleDude]

Maybe putting up with strange noise is an artifact of Vegas.

maybe the people next door to the shooter thought his hammering was merely some new turbo charged dildo?

 

[BretJ]

one of my buddies who does construction and roofing said it would take him (he's a big strong guy who I have seen carry 200 pounds of stuff up a ladder easily) a good deal of time with a 4 pound sledge to break one of those windows out. I said, could I hear it-and he pointed to the farthest point on my property-600 yards away-and said-yeah from there

You would be surprised what you can do with a springloaded centerpunch.....

 

[ttwtt78640]

That's a good question. So far only one proposal has been offered, and it was a joke proposal at that.

Hard to have a civil discussion about mass shooting prevention techniques when people won't step up to the plate and contribute concrete suggestions. :shrug:

We all know how the "war on drugs" is not working which includes a nationwide ban on the sale or possession of these street poisons and that has been going on for decades.

We also know that DGU saves lives and, even though how many is debatable, it is at least as many as are lost to mass shootings even using the highest number in your OP link. A total gun ban would, at best, disarm all of the law abiding which may reduce mass shootings but likely not nearly to the level of the lives then lost due to no more DGU.

 

[TurtleDude]

You would be surprised what you can do with a springloaded centerpunch.....

I will defer to you on that one-never used one though I know what one is.

 

[Rucker61]

maybe the people next door to the shooter thought his hammering was merely some new turbo charged dildo?

Were there people next door? Plenty of booze bottles and glasses get broke in Vegas hotels, I'd bet.

 

[PirateMk1]

You are being facetious I hope. But yes he could have...short of putting a TSA type security checkpoint at every single entrance (x-rays, etc.) It would never fly with the general public nor be economically feasable for the hotels.

I stopped flying airlines because of the TSA groping. Could you imagine going to Las Vegas and going through that kind of crap every time you wanted to go to another attraction? Las Vegas would be a ghost town in a New York minute. I went to Vegas for New Years eve and just roamed the strip with my babe and football sized margarita. Wouldn't be able to do that anymore. That would suck all the fun out of Vegas.

 

[beerftw]

Another day in America, another mass shooting. This one got more attention because of the high death toll, but the fact is, mass shootings have become more common in the US.

This is not a problem that most other developed nations choose to struggle with. Yes, choose. We collectively choose not to address this problem. And when our politicians are asked to do something, anything, this is how some of them reply:

"I think it’s particularly inappropriate to politicize an event like this, it just happened in the last day-and-a-half. It’s entirely premature to be discussing legislative solutions, if any." --Mitch McConnell, R-KY

"I don’t think this is a problem a law is going to fix by itself." --Lindsey Graham, R-SC

"I don’t know if legislation can [prevent mass shootings]." --Richard Shelby, R-AL

"[Y]ou never accept the fact that you can [prevent mass shootings]. ... [Y]ou should never accept the fact that you can do it." --Johnny Isakson, R-GA

"As somebody said: get small." --John Thune, R-SD

Get small? Are you ****ing kidding me, Mr. Thune? And go screw yourself and your fatalistic attitude, Mr. Isakson. Great American spirit you have there, that we're just gonna throw in the towel. :roll:

Very simply, I want to say this: If we assume for the sake of argument that stricter gun laws are not acceptable, then inaction on mass shootings is equally unacceptable. It is no longer acceptable to bury our collective heads in the sand and claim that we can do nothing, or that we all need to "get small."

So, to those who fiercely oppose gun control, I want to know specific laws that can be put into place to prevent these kinds of tragedies in the future. Inaction is no longer acceptable.

Mass shootings occur in the rest of the world save the most authoritarian countries, even countries with the strictest gun control. The reality ignored is society, 50 yeas ago a greater percentage of the population was armed yet these events were unheard of. In europe they still occur but I feel availability of guns has zero to do with it, but rather society as a whole. The reality is is someone wanted to kill mass numbers, there are more effective ways than guns, available worldwide at nearly every major store, yet most of the world and even here in the us would no use them.

Society has hit a crossroads where it deems life unimportant and an individuals feelings above all else. I had to watch the uncut columbine footage, I will tell you know they were messed up, but they were not random, they ignored quite a few people because everyone they shot was planned. But no one questions why they did what they did, or why they were bullied so much, or why bullying like that happened decades prior but yet somehow here it made a difference enough to make them snap. The answer is society, when people become disconnected from one another, people lose hope, and faith, and they feel like the world does not want them.

In reality people obsessed with their own lives that they can not notice others is what is causing these problems. It may have been some suicidal kid reaching out for someone to aknowledge him and help him today, it may be the guy who went bat**** crazy tomorrow that would have been caught had people put down their phones and cared enough to notice the world around them.

 

[BretJ]

That's a good question. So far only one proposal has been offered, and it was a joke proposal at that.

Hard to have a civil discussion about mass shooting prevention techniques when people won't step up to the plate and contribute concrete suggestions. :shrug:

Could be that there is not really a concrete suggestion that would not require a serious restriction of people's civil liberties. Proponents of stop and frisk meant well and they saved lives after all. How many lives could be saved with illegal search and seizure?

 

[Phys251]

We all know how the "war on drugs" is not working which includes a nationwide ban on the sale or possession of these street poisons and that has been going on for decades.

We also know that DGU saves lives and, even though how many is debatable, it is at least as many as are lost to mass shootings even using the highest number in your OP link. A total gun ban would, at best, disarm all of the law abiding which may reduce mass shootings but likely not nearly to the level of the lives then lost due to no more DGU.

You do realize that not one time in this thread have I called for a single gun control measure, right?

 

[Rucker61]

You do realize that not one time in this thread have I called for a single gun control measure, right?

Yeppers.